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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: David B] #2601011
01/04/17 12:07 PM
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That sounds like a good workout that would condition your hands to play boogie woogie. If that interests you, check out Doctor K on Youtube. He has some very complete boogie woogie piano courses. He has each course conveniently set up as a playlist, so it is easy to download these. You can then purchase the books that go with them at very reasonable cost from his site, which the blurb under the videos provide a link to. So, the videos are free, and the books are very reasonable and are pdf downloads.

Tony


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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2601768
01/06/17 06:49 PM
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Is there anyone interested in buying the first 4 lessons of the Crash course from Duane? I have it, but decided to take a different route. Everyone is different and learns in different ways. You might like it as many others in here like it. I'm selling it for $80.00, no shipping cost to deliver it in the US. Please let me know. Thanks.

Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2603795
01/12/17 07:34 PM
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A few comments on the Duane Shinn course...

I got away from working on it for a few months because I took a contract engineering job and I was too tired when I got home to do anything that required concentration as does this course. The contract finished shortly before Christmas and I promptly got back in to the course. I decided to start over again, and made quick progress through to the 4th lesson, at which point I really slowed down with that "swing bass". I am working through that now.

From what I have read among piano students in general (not just with Duane Shinn), this swing bass (stride piano) is not easy for most folks, but once you get it, you have it for life. In the Shinn course, this is but one of many techniques you will work through.

The thing is that you really have to be able to play all through a lesson comfortably, not just "kinda sorta" fumble through and call it a day. If you do move on too quickly, you will only trip up later on, and probably enough to want to just quit. These skills are presented in an order in which they build on each other, so short-changing one, makes those that follow far more difficult or impossible to learn. I can really see why so many of us buy a course like this and then never get very far. It takes real self-discipline to stick with a lesson for as long as it takes, rather than just moving on after a few days or week in a rush to get to the "good stuff". Without the skills built slowly day by day before the "good stuff", the "good stuff" will never happen. It simply can't.

One of the advantages of a course such as the Duane Shinn course is that you can screw up, quit, think on it for a while, and come back with a renewed interest and a "lessons learned" attitude to do it better this time. There are as many chances as we need to get it right.

To have the self-discipline to really follow through, we have to really, really want these skills. If we can focus on that, we can work through the tough parts, a bit like keeping your eyes on the horizon when trying not to get seasick.

So, if anybody is considering buying this course, you really need to know this is what you want to do. This course IS different from the many self-study courses out there. I know because I have many of them. One thing this course does, that a good teacher does, is to have you build all the skills you need to play well, and doles them out in bite-size pieces so you are not struggling beyond where you should be. You will struggle at times, but not because it is above where you should be. So many course, by the time you are finished, will leave you with holes in your abilities. Maybe you just learn how to accompany a singer, or maybe just learn chord forms and not how to read, or you just learn to noodle with a scale and some chords, or you don't learn striding and different ways to play a tune to keep it interesting. There is a lot to the Duane Shinn course. It is intense, but doable IF we have a strong enough desire to follow through and give ourselves the time it takes to master a lesson before moving on. When you finish this course, you really will have accomplished something worthwhile.

Tony

Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2603895
01/13/17 01:46 AM
01/13/17 01:46 AM
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+1. Well said Tony. Completely agree.

Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2604561
01/15/17 02:46 AM
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I finished lesson 5 and will be starting lesson 6 tomorrow. I uploaded a video to youtube of me playing one of the songs in lesson 5 (Alouette) while incorporating a swing bass rhythm in the left hand that was taught in a previous lesson. The music wasn't written with the stride rhythm, but Duane encourages us to incorporate things that we previously learned to create our own arrangements. Therefore this is my first arrangement using what I've learned so far in the course through lesson 5.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMe8VMD-Q18

God Bless,
David

Last edited by David B; 01/15/17 02:47 AM.

Kawai MP-11SE
Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-33 Completed
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: David B] #2604588
01/15/17 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by David B
I finished lesson 5 and will be starting lesson 6 tomorrow. I uploaded a video to youtube of me playing one of the songs in lesson 5 (Alouette) while incorporating a swing bass rhythm in the left hand that was taught in a previous lesson. The music wasn't written with the stride rhythm, but Duane encourages us to incorporate things that we previously learned to create our own arrangements. Therefore this is my first arrangement using what I've learned so far in the course through lesson 5.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMe8VMD-Q18

God Bless,
David


Terrific !!!

Now ... the question I have is this ...

How much of that is coming from things you learned in the Duane Shinn course ?

I am assuming you had been taking lessons or were working in some other method book prior to purchasing the Duane Shinn course. Am I right ?



Don

Kawai MP11SE, Casio PX-160, SennHeiser HD 555 Headphones, Apple iPad Mini, Spacestation v.3 Powered Stereo Monitor, Focal CMS 40 Monitors
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: dmd] #2604652
01/15/17 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by dmd


Terrific !!!

Now ... the question I have is this ...

How much of that is coming from things you learned in the Duane Shinn course ?

I am assuming you had been taking lessons or were working in some other method book prior to purchasing the Duane Shinn course. Am I right ?


Thank you. As I mentioned earlier in this thread I've been playing for 2 years and I completed the Learn and Master Piano lessons (28 of them) by Legacy Learning and Will Barrow. However, everything I did in the Alouette song has been covered by Duane through lesson 5. I just probably picked it up a little quicker because to some degree it was already covered in the Learn and Master series. There was one lesson in the Learn and Master series that introduced swing bass/stride piano.

So far the biggest difference between the two is that Duane is teaching the complete package. Sight reading, improvisation, theory, etc., in a very systematic way. The Learn and Master series really only gives an introduction to lots of things without getting in depth with anything. It's a good series, but I wish I didn't mess around with it for two years. I truly believe that I would be much further ahead if I had started Duane's crash course two years ago.

Today is going to be a fun day. Watch a little Football and start lesson 6.

God Bless,
David


Kawai MP-11SE
Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-33 Completed
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2604700
01/15/17 01:59 PM
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Hi David,
nice video ! Now now, the arpeggios and little embellishment are not (yet) part of Duane course.....but very well played (for what is worth coming from me..)

Were the arpeggios covered in Learn and Master ? which lesson , do you rememeber ?

Anyway, I should be able to finish lesson 10 by end of next week, now mastering "Wally Polly Doodle" from supplemental book 1.
--stoppa

Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: Stopparde] #2604709
01/15/17 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Stopparde
Hi David,
nice video ! Now now, the arpeggios and little embellishment are not (yet) part of Duane course.....but very well played (for what is worth coming from me..)


Thank you. Actually the arpeggios are covered. In lesson 5 there are two songs that break up the chords in closed arpeggios, and even though it's not in the songs yet, Duane contrasts the difference between closed and open arpeggios. Of course I opened the arpeggio up in the song I played, but you're right, technically, the open arpeggio isn't covered yet in the book material. However, I get the feeling that a lot of the good material isn't going to come from the books, but rather carefully listening to Duane.

Quote
Were the arpeggios covered in Learn and Master ? which lesson , do you rememeber ?


Arpeggios are introduced in lesson 10 with a simplified version of Amazing Grace using the 1st 3rd and 5th of a broken chord in the left hand. Then they are actually one of the central themes of lesson 12. However, it doesn't really build on the technique after that. Like every other subject in the course, you just get a basic introduction, and then you're on your own to figure out how to develop it in the future. The course is good for what it is.

Quote
Anyway, I should be able to finish lesson 10 by end of next week, now mastering "Wally Polly Doodle" from supplemental book 1.
--stoppa


That's wonderful. Keep up the good work. I do believe it will be worth all the time and effort. We will reap what we sow and Duane is giving us good seeds to plant that I believe will produce much fruit if we do our part. I wish you all the best in your journey.

God bless,
David


Kawai MP-11SE
Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-33 Completed
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2611734
02/05/17 01:51 AM
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I finally finished lesson 7. It took me two weeks to finish. This is the first lesson in the series that took me more than a week. I actually had the music in the books competed in the first week, but then I spent the second week applying previous techniques into the songs. This type of practice is something that Duane encourages, and in lesson 7 he gave some instruction on what could be done with the songs. I can tell this course is going to take more than a year (for me) since a lot of the practice is going to include more than what is written in the books. I would imagine as I learn more techniques, the practice is going to get longer and more difficult.

Here is an upload of a song from lesson 7 ("Sonata Theme") that I arranged using techniques from the previous lessons. I added a little more intricate swing bass, and arpeggios in the left hand, and a little more harmony to the melody in the right hand rather than just the single note melody as written in the book. I can't wait to start lesson 8 tomorrow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owPbGUIy31E

God Bless,
David




Last edited by David B; 02/05/17 02:12 AM.

Kawai MP-11SE
Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-33 Completed
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: David B] #2611771
02/05/17 06:04 AM
02/05/17 06:04 AM
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Nice job.
Hang in there!
And don't rush to the next song.


Czerny's Piano School Vol. 1. Reviewing basics/ear training/analysis in interesting exercises.
Opus 599. Now at #77 and giving it a break.
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: David B] #2611779
02/05/17 06:40 AM
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Very well done.

It appears you have the right idea.

If you just keep "inching" along and you will come out the other side as a very good player.



Don

Kawai MP11SE, Casio PX-160, SennHeiser HD 555 Headphones, Apple iPad Mini, Spacestation v.3 Powered Stereo Monitor, Focal CMS 40 Monitors
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: RaggedKeyPresser] #2612309
02/07/17 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by RaggedKeyPresser

...And don't rush to the next song.


That's a good counsel. A lot of the songs in the books don't appeal to me from a melody standpoint. Therefore, I don't spend the time to really get them perfect since I'm probably never going to play them again. However, I've had to think about when is the appropriate time to move on.

So far through lesson 7 the course has mostly been an exercise in sight reading for me. Therefore, when I stop reading the music and start playing the song from memory, I figure it's time to move on even if the song is not perfect. Some songs I stay a little longer with because I like them better.

Lesson 8 is introducing a new technique (Alberti bass), so combining that with the swing bass and broken chord rhythms, the practice time is going to get longer with the songs I want to apply those techniques to.

I guess for me it's going to be whether I like the song and I feel it's worth spending the extra time on it. One of the songs in lesson 8 is a hymn (My faith looks up to Thee) and I really love the hymns. So that song is going to get some special attention.

I think that slowing down and enjoying the journey is good counsel. Thanks.

God Bless,
David


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Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-33 Completed
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: dmd] #2612310
02/07/17 01:58 AM
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Originally Posted by dmd
Very well done.

It appears you have the right idea.

If you just keep "inching" along and you will come out the other side as a very good player.



That's what I'm hoping for. Thanks for the encouragement.

God Bless,
David


Kawai MP-11SE
Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-33 Completed
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: David B] #2612326
02/07/17 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by David B
Originally Posted by RaggedKeyPresser

...And don't rush to the next song.


A lot of the songs in the books don't appeal to me from a melody standpoint. Therefore, I don't spend the time to really get them perfect since I'm probably never going to play them again. However, I've had to think about when is the appropriate time to move on.

Some songs I stay a little longer with because I like them better.

Lesson 8 is introducing a new technique (Alberti bass), so combining that with the swing bass and broken chord rhythms, the practice time is going to get longer with the songs I want to apply those techniques to.

I guess for me it's going to be whether I like the song and I feel it's worth spending the extra time on it.

I think that slowing down and enjoying the journey is good counsel. Thanks.

God Bless,
David

David,
Some thoughts...
One way might be to clearly establish what is being taught in each lesson, and what needs to be worked on and conquered. And make sure it is a step-by-step process, with the steps not too far apart.
Then abandon the worn out, sometimes uninteresting melody, and replace it with something else since the melody itself serves no purpose at all really in this case.
Be creative, turn the melody upside down, play it backwards, replace it with scale fragments, chord arpeggios, use some other melody or make up your own, anything, if you actually really need something for the RH.
The point is to work on the stuff what seems to matter for the LH mainly at this stage. Otherwise come up with melody or scale fragments in 3rds or 6ths for the RH...or anything that fits in, and combine it with the LH.
What is scary and what might seem difficult is to abandon the strict teaching material. But it is possible to return to it at any time.

I think the trick is to take control of the material being learned and master it at every level, but only what is of importance. And that includes all the theory behind each piece. When you know that, there is nothing to memorize and the current piece is just there. It doesn't have to be saved in permanent memory for all eternity.

Might seem like a daunting task, but not too bad at this level of music. And it gets easier with the habit of always doing it.

I've been exactly at the same situation and working on the same course. I didn't know at that time what I know now, though. It also takes time to develop the ear...really.

I would say, stick to the course, sort out what is important and master that, don't be a hostage to the melody...abandon and replace at will.


Czerny's Piano School Vol. 1. Reviewing basics/ear training/analysis in interesting exercises.
Opus 599. Now at #77 and giving it a break.
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2612361
02/07/17 10:25 AM
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I dug out my copy of the same course. It's been a long time since I looked at this and I've taken on a different learning course of action later. I thought I would find it interesting to see my view of the material at this point of the game.
I checked out lesson 5 and the song Faith Of Our Fathers.

My first impression is that there is WAY too much spoon feeding for my taste (I don't speak for anybody else). All the extra material gets in the way of the real stuff. I had to sort out and discard a lot of unessential stuff.

I thought I would explore how to most efficiently (for me anyway) to learn the song (Which really is the main objective here...no difficult keyboard finger skills to work on here. Not a technical skills lesson. So it's really a song learning lesson.), I disassemble it and reduce it to:

Key C
3/4 time
No modulation...just an extra chord for flavour (can be used as a memory aid)
Structure in multiples of 4 bars
Organised as verse...verse...tag
One chord strike for the whole bar repeated throughout
Every repeated chord is using the same established fingering

Bars 1-4: I I IV I Main melodic idea...call
5-8: IV I V7/V V7 response

9-12 I I IV I Original idea
13-16 IV I V7 I Variation of response

17-20 IV I V7 I Tag...call
21-24 I IV V7 I ...response harking back to orig. melody...ending on perf. cadence

Learn the simple melody in RH (No harmonizing notes etc) by ear and memory
Drill the chord changes in the LH (Nothing unusual...spend a bit extra time on the V7/V to V7 memorize the chord name and finger movements)
Memorize the sound of the chord movements

That's about it...

No need to do anything more with this. No unique chord progressions to memorize long term...all standard.
No need to long term memorize this. Once learned, then next time referring to my reduced notes it would only take a few minutes or less to relearn into short term memory.


Czerny's Piano School Vol. 1. Reviewing basics/ear training/analysis in interesting exercises.
Opus 599. Now at #77 and giving it a break.
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: RaggedKeyPresser] #2612368
02/07/17 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by RaggedKeyPresser

Some thoughts...
I've been exactly at the same situation and working on the same course. I didn't know at that time what I know now, though. It also takes time to develop the ear...really.

I would say, stick to the course, sort out what is important and master that, don't be a hostage to the melody...abandon and replace at will.


Thank you. I've read your post in it's entirety and I appreciate the thoughtful advise and I can see the wisdom in it.

Did you eventually complete the course?

God Bless,
David

Last edited by David B; 02/07/17 10:41 AM.

Kawai MP-11SE
Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-33 Completed
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: David B] #2612687
02/08/17 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by David B
Originally Posted by RaggedKeyPresser

Some thoughts...
I've been exactly at the same situation and working on the same course. I didn't know at that time what I know now, though. It also takes time to develop the ear...really.

I would say, stick to the course, sort out what is important and master that, don't be a hostage to the melody...abandon and replace at will.


Thank you. I've read your post in it's entirety and I appreciate the thoughtful advise and I can see the wisdom in it.

Did you eventually complete the course?

God Bless,
David


Thanks David,
I finished lesson 16 and started on lesson 17. Then I ran out of steam/interest, and started looking at other options.
Probably because I realized that I needed to work on, or else miss out on, learning real traditional classical techniques.
Stuff that is for now anyway simple harmonically, but very challenging (and sometimes rapid) finger techniques, LH - RH coordination etc.

It's not that I've totally written off this course, though. Not at all.
I'm planning to go through it later song by song with more patience, after reaching a certain standard on the classical techniques, or possibly even before on and off.

And then I will sift through all the stuff to make it structurally easy to know and learn quickly. Like a road-map of the piece.
Once finding the way to Grandma's...map not needed anymore.
Only for later reviews.

I'm not satisfied with just playing from sight-reading.
And my mind is really balking at the idea of memorizing a piece from start to end without understanding anything, but the sound. I guess that is after I realized that it can be played both without sheet music and without the process of memorization.
And that done just from knowing the structure and knowing all the details of the song.
So that's why I like to break it down into smithereens, sort, classify, and the job is done.
Reverse engineering.


Czerny's Piano School Vol. 1. Reviewing basics/ear training/analysis in interesting exercises.
Opus 599. Now at #77 and giving it a break.
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: RaggedKeyPresser] #2615118
02/16/17 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by RaggedKeyPresser
Thanks David,
I finished lesson 16 and started on lesson 17. Then I ran out of steam/interest, and started looking at other options.


This is an all-too-common occurrence.

We buy the "Final Solution" with great hopes for nirvana.

But, alas ... it does not turn out as we had hoped.

For that reason I would be reluctant to spend that kind of money on piano instructional materials.

In the final analysis, it seems that lessons with a teacher can end up being the best option. With maybe some software lessons or books adding to an occasional lesson.

Or NOT !!

Who knows. We all are searching for "the answer" but there does not seem to be one size fits all.

Good Luck



Last edited by dmd; 02/16/17 02:11 PM.

Don

Kawai MP11SE, Casio PX-160, SennHeiser HD 555 Headphones, Apple iPad Mini, Spacestation v.3 Powered Stereo Monitor, Focal CMS 40 Monitors
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2620677
03/05/17 09:03 PM
03/05/17 09:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 264
The Sierras
D
David B Offline
Full Member
David B  Offline
Full Member
D

Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 264
The Sierras
I finished lesson 9 and will be starting lesson 10 this week. Here is an arrangement of a hymn from lesson 8 (I love the hymns) in which I have found a way to work in all the techniques covered by Duane through lesson 9. It has Alberti bass (which was new to me), stride rhythm in the left hand, a walk up, and contrary movement. The piano sound is my new Ravenscroft 275. I can't wait to start lesson 10. Duane keeps giving a preview of what we'll be learning and it makes me wish I had eight hours a day to practice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbxT-oQGoNU

God Bless,
David


Kawai MP-11SE
Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-33 Completed
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