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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2708591
01/25/18 11:12 PM
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Thanks David, this is a very encouraging theard.


Doug

Yamaha P115
Duane Shinn 52 week course 1-7 completed.
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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: Epee] #2708617
01/26/18 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Epee
How young do you think you could start a person on this program, of course with teacher guidance? I was considering this course for an eight year old.


I have a six year old and an eleven year old and if they wanted to learn how to play the piano, I wouldn't start them on this course. I think it moves along pretty quickly and is more geared for adults.

I'd be inclined to start with a traditional children's method book and a teacher.

God Bless,
David


Kawai MP-11SE
Macbook Air/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-30 Completed
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2708747
01/26/18 07:17 AM
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Thanks David B!

Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2709189
01/27/18 01:59 PM
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One question I have for those of you further along in the course, is whether Duane goes over how to back a singer or other instrument

Thanks


Doug

Yamaha P115
Duane Shinn 52 week course 1-7 completed.
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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2709238
01/27/18 04:45 PM
01/27/18 04:45 PM
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DCupright,
Duane doesn't specifically address this in the course (except maybe in passing) but the course will give you a foundation that you can easily adapt to accompanying a singer or working in a group.

In most western music you have rhythm, melody (tune) and accompaniment (the chords). If you're playing instrumental music where you're doing it all, generally you want to play the root note of the chord as the lowest note of the piano, the melody note as the highest note of the piano, and then different chord notes in between (in different patterns). There are lots of ways to do this. You can play the melody in your right hand and the chords in the left. You can play the root note with the left hand and the whole chords (with melody note on top) in the right. Or you can split the chord notes between the two hands.

When you want to accompany a singer, you generally leave off the melody note because the singer is singing that note. If you're playing with a bass player, you generally can leave off the chord root note because the bass player is playing it. That's a bit of an oversimplification, but it gets the general idea across. The main difference in accompanying is that you have to get out of the way of the other muscians by leaving some stuff out.

What Duane teaches you is the hardest part, playing everything solo style. Duane does sell follow-up courses that delve into things like accompanying, improvising, etc... or you can find other courses from other people to help you with the specifics of doing these kinds of things. But the different runs and fillers and chording patterns and playing techniques that Duane teaches in the crash course are all applicable to playing well with others.


Nord Stage 2 HA88
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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: dcupright] #2709303
01/27/18 08:26 PM
01/27/18 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by dcupright
One question I have for those of you further along in the course, is whether Duane goes over how to back a singer or other instrument
Thanks


I sing those tunes while playing them.
Are you looking for more sophisticated backing arrangements?


Czerny's Piano School Vol. 1. Reviewing basics/ear training/analysis in interesting exercises.
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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2709400
01/28/18 08:36 AM
01/28/18 08:36 AM
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Thanks for the answers, not looking for anything in particular just did not read where backing a singer was covered and wondered if he went over that.


Doug

Yamaha P115
Duane Shinn 52 week course 1-7 completed.
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2710544
02/01/18 03:11 AM
02/01/18 03:11 AM
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I'm currently on lesson 22, but here is a song from lesson 19 (Just A Wearyin' For You). We cover a lot of songs in the lessons and occasionally a song will stand out that I really like. This is one of them. It's mostly Duane's arrangement with my own imprint on it (Maybe 70/30). I'll play it once through as written in the book and then arranged. The piano sound is Pianoteq 6 Grotrian. I kind of like this piano sound. It's nice to have variety. Enjoy.



God Bless,
David


Last edited by David B; 02/01/18 03:46 AM.

Kawai MP-11SE
Macbook Air/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-30 Completed
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2710595
02/01/18 10:58 AM
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Hi David,

Wow ... you are absolutely the best advertising this course could have.

I have come to look forward to your next demo ... LOL ....

Great Job


Don

Current: ES8, SennHeiser HD598 Phones, Spacestation v.3 Powered Stereo Monitor, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors (as Subwoofer).
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2710606
02/01/18 11:38 AM
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Thanks for posting the videos David, it is very encouraging to see what is possible.


Doug

Yamaha P115
Duane Shinn 52 week course 1-7 completed.
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: dcupright] #2710669
02/01/18 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by dmd
Hi David,

Wow ... you are absolutely the best advertising this course could have.

I have come to look forward to your next demo ... LOL ....

Great Job


Thank you. Your affirmation inspires me to keep uploading songs here.

Originally Posted by dcupright
Thanks for posting the videos David, it is very encouraging to see what is possible.


Duane has a good method of teaching. The plethora of songs that are covered in the curse provide plenty of opportunity to develop the techniques he teaches.

God Bless,
David


Kawai MP-11SE
Macbook Air/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-30 Completed
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2711018
02/02/18 05:30 PM
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I have a question for those of you learning from Duane’s course. When do you move to the next lesson. I have been on Lesson 1 for 8 days now. I can play all of the songs ok, some of them are not quite up to speed but can play the majority in time. There are a couple still giving me a little trouble changing the left hand chords.

Should I stay on this lesson until everything is up to speed and can pretty well play perfectly or move on with the above mentioned issues. I will note I am in no hurry to move on but want to know when the time is right.

Doug


Doug

Yamaha P115
Duane Shinn 52 week course 1-7 completed.
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: dcupright] #2711022
02/02/18 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by dcupright
I have a question for those of you learning from Duane’s course. When do you move to the next lesson. I have been on Lesson 1 for 8 days now. I can play all of the songs ok, some of them are not quite up to speed but can play the majority in time. There are a couple still giving me a little trouble changing the left hand chords.

Should I stay on this lesson until everything is up to speed and can pretty well play perfectly or move on with the above mentioned issues. I will note I am in no hurry to move on but want to know when the time is right.

Doug


I am not taking the course but .....

Generally speaking ..... keep at a lesson until you can play it very, very well.

If you move too fast, there is a high probability that you will get through the lessons and find that you still cannot play anything and that is a bummer.

I would take the attitude .... If I can't learn to play this, why am I doing this at all ?

Hold yourself accountable and work on it until you can do it.

Then you will feel much better about the progress you are making.


Don

Current: ES8, SennHeiser HD598 Phones, Spacestation v.3 Powered Stereo Monitor, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors (as Subwoofer).
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2711030
02/02/18 05:54 PM
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Thank you Don, i can play everything in the lesson just not quite up to performance standards so to speak. I can play all of the songs in time. Since I am a beginner at the piano I don't expect to play anything up to performance standard in a weeks time which is why I asked the question. I am willing to take as long as it takes but on the other hand I don't want to stay there longer than I need to. I have played upright and electric bass for years and finding going back to square 1 interesting.

I appreciate your wise advise.


Doug

Yamaha P115
Duane Shinn 52 week course 1-7 completed.
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: dcupright] #2711077
02/02/18 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by dcupright
I have a question for those of you learning from Duane’s course. When do you move to the next lesson.


This is a really critical question when going through this course. It was easier at the beginning of the course because Duane showed you very carefully everything he was doing, and what he was teaching was appropriate for a beginner level player. That changes as you get toward the middle of the course. Knowing when to move on becomes more challenging as Duane starts covering more advanced techniques as "examples of what could be done" when arranging a song. Here is my method:

The first thing I do is watch the lesson before I even sit at the piano just to see what's going to be covered. Then I start learning the songs for that lesson as written (right hand, left hand, then both hands). Once I can play the songs as written, I'll go back to the video (this time while sitting at the piano) and let Duane teach me.

When to move on is kind of challenging now because Duane (Starting around lesson 20/21) doesn't breakdown slowly everything he is doing like he did at the beginning of the course. Now it's up to me to decide how far I want to go in arranging a song and how well I want to play that song before moving on. I find that some songs I'm not interested in doing much with while others I'm more motivated. Regardless of what songs I'm focusing on, I don't move on until I understand and can begin to play the techniques that are taught.

Duane says that we should not expect to play things as good as him (if we could we wouldn't need lessons), and the opportunity to work on those techniques will emerge again in the future given how many songs there are in this course, and we'll also have the rest of our lives to develop the techniques.

Bottom line is that I move on when I feel like I've learned everything I can (at this time) from the lesson. That includes playing the music as written while understanding and playing what Duane is teaching to a level that I would consider acceptable given my beginner status.

So I think there is always going to be a subjective consideration as to when we can move on (particularly toward the second half of the course) unless the standard is to play everything exactly like Duane does before moving on. It would probably end up being a 10-20 year course if we did that. This is a question I've had to consider quite a bit and even emailed Duane about it. He was gracious and gave me some good counsel which I've tried to highlight in this response. Hope this helps.

God Bless,
David





Last edited by David B; 02/02/18 10:45 PM.

Kawai MP-11SE
Macbook Air/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-30 Completed
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2711080
02/02/18 11:15 PM
02/02/18 11:15 PM
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Thanks David, that makes lots of sense. I think I will spend a few more days on the couple of songs that are not as smooth as the others.


Doug

Yamaha P115
Duane Shinn 52 week course 1-7 completed.
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2711086
02/03/18 12:38 AM
02/03/18 12:38 AM
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I would like to add one more thing about the "when to move on" dilemma.

David did not mention it but he does one important thing which (I think) is his way of holding himself accountable for how well he masters the material before moving on .....

He comes here periodically and demonstrates a piece that he has arranged and plays it for us.

That by itself insures that he will not just "kid himself" into thinking he is ready to move on when ... in fact ... he is not.

I am not suggesting that everyone has to do that.

However, it is a good way to measure your readiness for the next lesson.


Don

Current: ES8, SennHeiser HD598 Phones, Spacestation v.3 Powered Stereo Monitor, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors (as Subwoofer).
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: dmd] #2711097
02/03/18 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted by dmd
I would like to add one more thing about the "when to move on" dilemma.

David did not mention it but he does one important thing which (I think) is his way of holding himself accountable for how well he masters the material before moving on .....
He comes here periodically and demonstrates a piece that he has arranged and plays it for us.
That by itself insures that he will not just "kid himself" into thinking he is ready to move on when ... in fact ... he is not.
I am not suggesting that everyone has to do that.
However, it is a good way to measure your readiness for the next lesson.


That's true. I find recording myself playing gives me a good indication of where I'm at and it helps me to fulfill my short term goals. I actually upload the songs to youtube for a few friends and family members who are interested in my progress. I link to them here because this is the forum that introduced me to Duane Shinn (and the ES8 and MP11SE and Pianoteq, TrueKeys etc.,). Most of my piano information comes from this forum. I don't post much here, but I feel like I have benefited from reading the contributions of other players. Plus, posting takes time and I seem to have less of it the older I get.

God Bless,
David

Last edited by David B; 02/03/18 03:22 AM.

Kawai MP-11SE
Macbook Air/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-30 Completed
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2711706
02/05/18 04:39 PM
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Hi everyone,

This is an interesting thread. It actually taught me that this is not the right course for me based on various comments made here.

It took me a few sessions to work my way through the thread, but it was well worth it for me as a new to piano, older adult learner. I found it very informative as to what everyone seems to go through when learning, and finding tutorial products, and getting the best from them.

So thanks to everyone for their various inputs, and congrats to David on his excellant videos - great work! You’ve got me interested in Gospel music again!

TC


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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2713885
02/13/18 04:03 AM
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Here is a song from lesson 21 (My Gal Sal). It was the only song covered in the lesson in which Duane took to opportunity to summarize everything (arrangement techniques) that have been covered so far. However, there was a new technique covered at the end of the lesson. Switching from 4/4 to 3/4 time to freshen up the song. That was a new concept for me. It took an otherwise boring song and made it fun. The music of course isn't written in 3/4 time so I had to just feel it out.

He left it up to the student to arrange the song anyway we want. So I tried to put a few things from the past in, e.g., some runs which I stink at, but will have to do for now. I'll play a few bars as written in the book, then my own arrangement (with Duane's help) in 4/4 time, and then halfway through switch to 3/4 time with some syncopation. The piano sound is the SK-5 Concert Grand.



God Bless,
David

Last edited by David B; 02/13/18 04:32 AM.

Kawai MP-11SE
Macbook Air/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-30 Completed
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2713897
02/13/18 06:07 AM
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Great job, D.!

Please keep 'em coming! Very motivational stuff!

Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2714028
02/13/18 04:18 PM
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Motivational AND inspiring! Love the move to 3/4 - awesome!

Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2714050
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Wow, very nice. You make it look easy but I know better. Thanks.

Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2714077
02/13/18 06:40 PM
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I enjoyed this and agree on the time change. Nice job.


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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2717751
02/28/18 12:43 PM
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Hi, need some help here..
I’m stuck at lesson 17 for almost 2 months now.

The lesson is devoted entirely to arranging one song with like 6 different techniques.
I’m definetely a slow learner and admittedly stopped for a week or so due to discouragement, but trying to master all the various arranging
techniques will take me months. I managed to work through two of the techniques (melody in octaves with 3rds and walk up bass, with swing bass and alternated root/fifth)

At this point I was contemplating to move to next lesson, going back to this one from time to time or in parallel.

What do you think ? Should I keep going with the same lesson until I can play all the different arrangments or move forward ?

Thanks in advance for your opinion.

stoppa

Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: Stopparde] #2717772
02/28/18 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Stopparde
Hi, need some help here..
I’m stuck at lesson 17 for almost 2 months now.


I can completely empathize with you. It's definitely the hardest song (Sweet Rosie O'Grady) covered in the course up until that point. It was a source of frustration for me too.

Quote
The lesson is devoted entirely to arranging one song with like 6 different techniques.
I’m definetely a slow learner and admittedly stopped for a week or so due to discouragement, but trying to master all the various arranging
techniques will take me months.


You are not going to "master" all the techniques. I don't believe that is what Duane expects. For example, I still cannot do the multiple octave runs like he does. If you go back to page 7 in this thread and watch my video of this song, you'll see that I cheat on the runs by slowing them down.

It's shortly after this lesson (maybe 18 or 19) where Duane in the introduction explains to us that he doesn't expect us to do everything as good as he does. Otherwise we'd be as good as him. Some of these techniques will take years to refine. He's showing us what is possible to do with a song. It would have been nice if he put that caveat in at the beginning of lesson 17.

Quote
What do you think ? Should I keep going with the same lesson until I can play all the different arrangments or move forward ?


I think this is the main philosophical conundrum that has emerged in this thread. This is my only criticism of the course so far. Duane doesn't always tell us what he expects us to learn before moving on. Of course we have to learn how to play the song as written, but as far as arranging goes, it's really up to us and our own personal determination on far we go with the arrangement techniques taught.

It's not really going to hurt anything if you decide to stay 6 months on one song before moving on, but I don't think that is what Duane intended for us to do. It's not a 10 year course. It's a 3 year course (according to Duane's office staff) condensed into 1 year. I'm fully expecting to take 3 years with it.

You have to discern what techniques are too far beyond your level (for me it's the multiple octave runs in that song) and do the best with the song given your current level. At least try to become familiar and understand all the techniques because you will have ample opportunity to practice them throughout this course with all the songs that we cover. Lesson 17 is a hump. It gets easier as we progress.

I'm currently on lesson 24, but still working on songs from lesson 23 because it includes techniques from the past and a few new ones. Hang in there. You can do it too. It will be worth the work. I really believe that.

God Bless,
David

P.S. I've added my video of this song (it's also on page 7 of this thread). As you can see I don't do everything exactly the way Duane does. I do the best I can with it.


Last edited by David B; 02/28/18 09:57 PM.

Kawai MP-11SE
Macbook Air/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-30 Completed
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2717805
02/28/18 04:53 PM
02/28/18 04:53 PM
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Stopparde Offline
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Hey David,
before posting I actually went and watched your video...I think you do play that song arrangements quite well.
Thanks for the encouragement and all your comments. Especially thanks for the info on the course potential length - 3 years seems more reasonable than a year !
Yes the multiple active runs are quite challenging and will need dedicated technical development, before using in a song context.
I think I will start with the next lesson and go back to this one for a while, I feel less bad/guilty now smile
I guess one advantage of going with self-learning is that you can go back, revise, stay on a lesson or technique as much you want.

stoppa

Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: Stopparde] #2717811
02/28/18 05:10 PM
02/28/18 05:10 PM
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The Sierras
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David B Offline
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Originally Posted by Stopparde

I think I will start with the next lesson and go back to this one for a while, I feel less bad/guilty now smile
I guess one advantage of going with self-learning is that you can go back, revise, stay on a lesson or technique as much you want.

stoppa


Amen!

I'll be 45 years old in a few months and I really wish I didn't have to spend so much time working on basic stuff. But that's the reality for adult beginners. It's a challenge to our character. We have to be patient, learn to enjoy the journey, and believe that this tedious work will eventually enable us to achieve a level of playing where we have freedom of expression and can just play without having to concentrate so much on hitting the right notes. I believe Duane's course is a great foundational course for a beginner. Hang in there and I will too. I know we can do it.

God Bless,
David

Last edited by David B; 02/28/18 05:28 PM.

Kawai MP-11SE
Macbook Air/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-30 Completed
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2717829
02/28/18 06:00 PM
02/28/18 06:00 PM
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Stopparde Offline
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Ah! 53 here.....not a minute pass that I regret the time I spent on reading comics and watching 90125 instead of nailing down those scales and arpeggios during my free time!

Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: Stopparde] #2717844
02/28/18 07:15 PM
02/28/18 07:15 PM
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Posts: 214
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David B Offline
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David B  Offline
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Originally Posted by Stopparde
Ah! 53 here.....not a minute pass that I regret the time I spent on reading comics and watching 90125 instead of nailing down those scales and arpeggios during my free time!


Man, I hear ya.

For me it was wasting so many years shooting guns. The amount of time and money I spent in that hobby is depressing.

It seems impossible to avoid regrets in life.

God Bless,
David


Kawai MP-11SE
Macbook Air/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-30 Completed
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