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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2599758
12/31/16 10:09 PM
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Don, I agree! Focus! I'm determined to finish! No distractions 😂

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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: Stopparde] #2600159
01/02/17 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Stopparde
I was also looking just yesterday at the pro secret course.
Beside being ~$700, it's audio only with one dvd.
Have you had the time to sift through it a bit ? How is the quality of the material?
Maybe I should order one......
Thanks and Happy Learning.
-stoppa


You're right, it's just audio with one overview DVD where he demonstrates the 36 techniques. The audio is actually very poor quality, but sufficient to learn the material. He mentioned on the first CD that he was 45 years old at the time of the recording. I don't know exactly how old he is now, but I'm guessing that the recordings must be close to 30 years old.

I can't say right now whether it is worth 700 bucks or not. I have started the first technique (straddles), however, I'm not doing the one hour a day routine that the course is geared around.

I figured I start with the pro secrets techniques, but not make it the focus. The 52 week course is the focus for me. I've started the pro secrets just for variety. If it takes me 6 months to learn a single technique, I'm ok with that. I'll be that much further ahead when I finish the 52 week course.

I just completed lesson 4 tonight in the crash course and will be starting lesson 5 either tomorrow or Thursday. I have a busy week coming up. I finished lesson 4 sooner than I thought I would. Probably because I've already been introduced to stride piano in the L&M series. It's fun and I'm glad it starts with with just a few chords (C and G7), that makes it more manageable.

I've actually changed up the rhythm some. Rather than playing root on the first beat and the chord on the first beat of the next measure (like it's written), I've been playing root on the first beat and chord on 2nd and 3rd in 3/4 time, and root on the first and chord on the third in 4/4 time.

Wish I had more time to practice. I absolutely believe there will be significant improvements in my playing if I put the time in with this course.

God Bless,
David


Last edited by David B; 01/02/17 06:15 AM.

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Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-30 Completed
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2600242
01/02/17 12:03 PM
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It sounds as if you are making great progress, David. Duane's course is different from other home study courses because it covers a lot of territory, and does it step by step so you are assured you are really getting it all. To keep costs down, make the process seem less intimidating (i.e. able to claim instant gratification, etc), other such courses tend to focus on just one or a few of the areas that Duane's course covers. Where Duane's course goes in depth, making sure you get it, many course really tend to gloss over important details. Duane is old school, detail-oriented, rather than the "new way" of getting through it as quickly as possible.

However, Duane's course also serves as the gateway to his more advanced courses. I have most of these - improvisation, music theory, 36 techniques, how to play by ear, how to dress up naked music, etc. All of these together serve up a quite well rounded and complete piano education whose focus is on playing songs, rather than solely on classical music.

The one problem I have had with the 52 week course is that it gets rather intense, rather quickly so that if you don't have serious time and energy at the end of the work day to practice, you will fall behind. This course takes sustained commitment. After the first round of excitement, when everything is still new and shiny, the understanding of just how much work is involved starts to sink in. Those with previous piano experience of one kind or another may slide through the first several lessons, but sooner or later, you will hit that "brick wall", where it will be a few weeks of sustained effort to get through the next lesson.

This can be difficult if you have a demanding job and/or other areas of your life are demanding. Think of it as being quite similar to finishing college at night (as I did), because it is very much like that. Anything that has real rewards, will require real sustained effort, whether it is getting that 4 year degree or really learning to play piano.

I have started and stopped this 52 week course any number of times. I am semi-retired, taking engineering contracts for a few months each year for the past few years. I can be doing fine with the 52 week course, but then once I am a week or two into a contract job, I have trouble finding the energy at the end of the day to work on the course. For this year, I am seriously considering just not working so I can continue to make progress at a reasonable pace. Being able to play piano every day, several times a day, is (to me) a good way to approach this course. This type of practice is like watering a lawn. Instead of dumping a ton of water on the lawn in a short time and having most of it just run off, this is like slowly letting the water soak in, where it does the most good. Duane even talks about this approach.

Though Duane sells this course as being for "busy adults", I find that this "busyness" tends to suck the energy out of me, leaving little left when I have time to practice. I think the course is great for retirees who want something real to sink their teeth into, providing structure for the day and real goals that have value rather than the typical shortcuts that many such courses provide.

For working folks, especially older folks whose overall energy level is starting to wane as they near retirement, the course can work, but expect to be stopping and starting as life interferes. Even so, that process helps to prepare you for fully engaging it in retirement.

One of the nice things about this course, and its related follow-on courses, is that when you buy the entire course, you get the whole thing in your home. It is there waiting for you even if you do have to set it aside for a few years. It isn't going anywhere. There is absolutely no guarantee that any of those piano teaching sites will be there that long. With a server providing the course work, it is all too easy for it to pack u and go away if the owner decides there isn't enough interest, or time to maintain it, or profit margin for the time spent, or whatever, not to mention the possibility of the site being hacked or otherwise becoming even temporarily unavailable. You own the Duane Shinn courses and they are there whenever you are ready.

The various courses are expensive compared to other home study courses, but you are getting real quality teaching, specifically designed for self-teaching. Also, you pay the price just once and then from that point on, no more cash outlay, but years of learning the material at your own pace - no missed lessons, rescheduling or having to drive somewhere to take a lesson (important if you live where the winters are long and cold...). The main thing is that you are not sacrificing teaching quality by taking the self-study route with these courses. I can't really say that about the myriad courses I have gotten from elsewhere that claim to do the same thing.

Tony


Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2600260
01/02/17 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by TonyB
The one problem I have had with the 52 week course is that it gets rather intense, rather quickly so that if you don't have serious time and energy at the end of the work day to practice, you will fall behind. This course takes sustained commitment.


I know what you mean by "sustained commitment." I look at it as slowly plodding along. Although I have very specific goals in mind, the journey for me is also very enjoyable. I actually like learning these simple little pieces and trying to play them with expression. The key is to keep moving forward even if it's at a slow pace. Personally, it's hard for me to stop something once I start it. I get obsessed. I've had various obsessions that have lasted decades. I think the piano will be one of my last obsessions in life.

God Bless,
David


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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: David B] #2600296
01/02/17 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by David B
Originally Posted by Stopparde
I was also looking just yesterday at the pro secret course.
Beside being ~$700, it's audio only with one dvd.
Have you had the time to sift through it a bit ? How is the quality of the material?
Maybe I should order one......
Thanks and Happy Learning.
-stoppa


You're right, it's just audio with one overview DVD where he demonstrates the 36 techniques. The audio is actually very poor quality, but sufficient to learn the material. He mentioned on the first CD that he was 45 years old at the time of the recording. I don't know exactly how old he is now, but I'm guessing that the recordings must be close to 30 years old.

I can't say right now whether it is worth 700 bucks or not. I have started the first technique (straddles), however, I'm not doing the one hour a day routine that the course is geared around.
...........
God Bless,
David



Thanks David,
just one more question: how the recordings are structured ? Does Duane plays the techniques, explains them, both? And how easy is to follow ? I'm more of a visual person and I'm wondering how easy is to follow the lessons with just audio.

Tony
thanks for your write-up and experience. Very interesting to know about a fellow piano student.

In my case I'm still working full time with quite a few years before getting close to any form of retirement. I always thought "when I retire I'll start learning to play piano" , to realize then that "when I retire" is going to be too late!
I started and stopped Alfred a few times and then after joining this forum I discovered Duane course.
I completely agree with you on owning the material more than "streaming" it.
With long term commitment learning such as piano, you need to own the material and have it available when you need it.

That was also the reason why I was contemplating the idea of buying a few of the pro courses. It will take quite a while before I'll be at the level to which I could start the pro though, but I know I have it there available if fancy strike.
But, as we discussed earlier, one of the goal is trying to not be distracted (too much) and keep the focus.

I feel you, when you say that it takes time and energy at the end of the day to go through the lessons. I'm at lesson 10 after 6 months, so not exactly going fast here.
I try to do at least a minimum of 15m every day, so far I skipped around a week due to vacations far from home. Concentration for me is a big issue more than anything else.

Anyway, 2017 resolutions: continue to learn piano more physical activity and of course .....lose weight 😬

Last edited by Stopparde; 01/02/17 02:19 PM.
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2600306
01/02/17 02:40 PM
01/02/17 02:40 PM
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Stopparde,

You can purchase the advanced courses and completely ignore them until you are ready. That is what I have been doing. To me, it makes sense to buy them while they are available. we really don't know how long Duane himself is going to be around to run the business, and after that, what will happen to it. He is probably well along in years by now, as some have mentioned in this thread, considering how long he has been selling the courses. If you wait to buy them until you are finished with the 52 week course, they may not be available anymore. That has happened to other courses from other places in the past. Nothing goes on forever.

Once you have gotten used to Duane's teaching style and are comfortable/productive with it, it would be a shame to have to find something else to move on to from an entirely different teacher whom you may or may not like. Staying with Duane, you have solid consistency, and those advanced courses cover pretty much anything you might want to learn.

One thing I have noticed is that the permanence that I have talked about here seems to be less important to younger generations, who are comfortable with things coming and going on the internet all the time. So it may be that what I am saying sounds really "old school" to some folks. If I find something that works for me, I want it to stay that way. That attitude may be unique to just some of us, so it may well be that this is of little importance to other folks.

Tony


Last edited by TonyB; 01/02/17 02:43 PM.
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2600426
01/02/17 09:43 PM
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One Duane Shinn program I would strongly recommend to go along with the 52 week course is the "Specialized DVD Piano Lessons" set. This is a set of 16 DVDs, each DVD focusing on a specific subject such as pedalling, scales, modulation, etc. These fill in the 52 week course with the kinds of things you might be asking a live teacher about during the course of lessons. Rather than being a distraction, these provide additional information. This is not a course, but instead each DVD focuses on just one subject, expanding on what is taught in the 52 week (or any other) course of piano study.

Tony


Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2600500
01/03/17 04:35 AM
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Ha! I did not notice that one! Thanks Tony.
It seems (based on the dvds topics) that some of the material is covered in his videos on youtube ?
Very tempting...

Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2600596
01/03/17 11:52 AM
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I don't really know what Duane Shinn has on Youtube. However, what I have noticed for myself is that the computer can be a distraction, so I try to separate my piano time from computer time (which is another reason why I don't want an online subscription to a piano teaching site). I do know that each DVD in that set goes into detail about just that one subject of the DVD. To me, these DVDs collectively represent the kinds of things I would want to ask Duane as I am working through his course. He covers everything in the course itself, but sometimes we want more detail than he provides in a given lesson. He certainly does a good job in the lessons, but there are always a few more things about a given subject we want to know, and these DVDs allow us to get that without getting distracted with yet another course.

Tony


Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: Stopparde] #2600868
01/04/17 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Stopparde

Thanks David,
just one more question: how the recordings are structured ? Does Duane plays the techniques, explains them, both? And how easy is to follow ? I'm more of a visual person and I'm wondering how easy is to follow the lessons with just audio.


So far I've only listened to the first CD on Straddles. He does go over the correct fingering and then walks you through the drill, e.g., C, Cm, Cdim, Caug, C#, C#m C#dim, etc.

He plays it on the piano and you follow along and duplicate what he is doing. If you can't duplicate it then you pause the CD and work on it until you can before going back to the CD.

I found it kind of hard to follow just the audio and was grateful for the DVD overview, but I do believe the course will be sufficient to teach the 36 different techniques.

I work on the straddles for a few minutes each day just to mix things up a bit. Straddles give your hands quite a workout. I definitely could not do it for an hour at time right now. Hope this helps.

God Bless,
David

Last edited by David B; 01/04/17 03:02 AM.

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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: David B] #2601011
01/04/17 01:07 PM
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That sounds like a good workout that would condition your hands to play boogie woogie. If that interests you, check out Doctor K on Youtube. He has some very complete boogie woogie piano courses. He has each course conveniently set up as a playlist, so it is easy to download these. You can then purchase the books that go with them at very reasonable cost from his site, which the blurb under the videos provide a link to. So, the videos are free, and the books are very reasonable and are pdf downloads.

Tony


Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2601768
01/06/17 07:49 PM
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Is there anyone interested in buying the first 4 lessons of the Crash course from Duane? I have it, but decided to take a different route. Everyone is different and learns in different ways. You might like it as many others in here like it. I'm selling it for $80.00, no shipping cost to deliver it in the US. Please let me know. Thanks.

Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2603795
01/12/17 08:34 PM
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A few comments on the Duane Shinn course...

I got away from working on it for a few months because I took a contract engineering job and I was too tired when I got home to do anything that required concentration as does this course. The contract finished shortly before Christmas and I promptly got back in to the course. I decided to start over again, and made quick progress through to the 4th lesson, at which point I really slowed down with that "swing bass". I am working through that now.

From what I have read among piano students in general (not just with Duane Shinn), this swing bass (stride piano) is not easy for most folks, but once you get it, you have it for life. In the Shinn course, this is but one of many techniques you will work through.

The thing is that you really have to be able to play all through a lesson comfortably, not just "kinda sorta" fumble through and call it a day. If you do move on too quickly, you will only trip up later on, and probably enough to want to just quit. These skills are presented in an order in which they build on each other, so short-changing one, makes those that follow far more difficult or impossible to learn. I can really see why so many of us buy a course like this and then never get very far. It takes real self-discipline to stick with a lesson for as long as it takes, rather than just moving on after a few days or week in a rush to get to the "good stuff". Without the skills built slowly day by day before the "good stuff", the "good stuff" will never happen. It simply can't.

One of the advantages of a course such as the Duane Shinn course is that you can screw up, quit, think on it for a while, and come back with a renewed interest and a "lessons learned" attitude to do it better this time. There are as many chances as we need to get it right.

To have the self-discipline to really follow through, we have to really, really want these skills. If we can focus on that, we can work through the tough parts, a bit like keeping your eyes on the horizon when trying not to get seasick.

So, if anybody is considering buying this course, you really need to know this is what you want to do. This course IS different from the many self-study courses out there. I know because I have many of them. One thing this course does, that a good teacher does, is to have you build all the skills you need to play well, and doles them out in bite-size pieces so you are not struggling beyond where you should be. You will struggle at times, but not because it is above where you should be. So many course, by the time you are finished, will leave you with holes in your abilities. Maybe you just learn how to accompany a singer, or maybe just learn chord forms and not how to read, or you just learn to noodle with a scale and some chords, or you don't learn striding and different ways to play a tune to keep it interesting. There is a lot to the Duane Shinn course. It is intense, but doable IF we have a strong enough desire to follow through and give ourselves the time it takes to master a lesson before moving on. When you finish this course, you really will have accomplished something worthwhile.

Tony

Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2603895
01/13/17 02:46 AM
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+1. Well said Tony. Completely agree.

Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2604561
01/15/17 03:46 AM
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I finished lesson 5 and will be starting lesson 6 tomorrow. I uploaded a video to youtube of me playing one of the songs in lesson 5 (Alouette) while incorporating a swing bass rhythm in the left hand that was taught in a previous lesson. The music wasn't written with the stride rhythm, but Duane encourages us to incorporate things that we previously learned to create our own arrangements. Therefore this is my first arrangement using what I've learned so far in the course through lesson 5.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMe8VMD-Q18

God Bless,
David

Last edited by David B; 01/15/17 03:47 AM.

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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: David B] #2604588
01/15/17 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by David B
I finished lesson 5 and will be starting lesson 6 tomorrow. I uploaded a video to youtube of me playing one of the songs in lesson 5 (Alouette) while incorporating a swing bass rhythm in the left hand that was taught in a previous lesson. The music wasn't written with the stride rhythm, but Duane encourages us to incorporate things that we previously learned to create our own arrangements. Therefore this is my first arrangement using what I've learned so far in the course through lesson 5.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMe8VMD-Q18

God Bless,
David


Terrific !!!

Now ... the question I have is this ...

How much of that is coming from things you learned in the Duane Shinn course ?

I am assuming you had been taking lessons or were working in some other method book prior to purchasing the Duane Shinn course. Am I right ?



Don

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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: dmd] #2604652
01/15/17 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by dmd


Terrific !!!

Now ... the question I have is this ...

How much of that is coming from things you learned in the Duane Shinn course ?

I am assuming you had been taking lessons or were working in some other method book prior to purchasing the Duane Shinn course. Am I right ?


Thank you. As I mentioned earlier in this thread I've been playing for 2 years and I completed the Learn and Master Piano lessons (28 of them) by Legacy Learning and Will Barrow. However, everything I did in the Alouette song has been covered by Duane through lesson 5. I just probably picked it up a little quicker because to some degree it was already covered in the Learn and Master series. There was one lesson in the Learn and Master series that introduced swing bass/stride piano.

So far the biggest difference between the two is that Duane is teaching the complete package. Sight reading, improvisation, theory, etc., in a very systematic way. The Learn and Master series really only gives an introduction to lots of things without getting in depth with anything. It's a good series, but I wish I didn't mess around with it for two years. I truly believe that I would be much further ahead if I had started Duane's crash course two years ago.

Today is going to be a fun day. Watch a little Football and start lesson 6.

God Bless,
David


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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2604700
01/15/17 02:59 PM
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Hi David,
nice video ! Now now, the arpeggios and little embellishment are not (yet) part of Duane course.....but very well played (for what is worth coming from me..)

Were the arpeggios covered in Learn and Master ? which lesson , do you rememeber ?

Anyway, I should be able to finish lesson 10 by end of next week, now mastering "Wally Polly Doodle" from supplemental book 1.
--stoppa

Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: Stopparde] #2604709
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Originally Posted by Stopparde
Hi David,
nice video ! Now now, the arpeggios and little embellishment are not (yet) part of Duane course.....but very well played (for what is worth coming from me..)


Thank you. Actually the arpeggios are covered. In lesson 5 there are two songs that break up the chords in closed arpeggios, and even though it's not in the songs yet, Duane contrasts the difference between closed and open arpeggios. Of course I opened the arpeggio up in the song I played, but you're right, technically, the open arpeggio isn't covered yet in the book material. However, I get the feeling that a lot of the good material isn't going to come from the books, but rather carefully listening to Duane.

Quote
Were the arpeggios covered in Learn and Master ? which lesson , do you rememeber ?


Arpeggios are introduced in lesson 10 with a simplified version of Amazing Grace using the 1st 3rd and 5th of a broken chord in the left hand. Then they are actually one of the central themes of lesson 12. However, it doesn't really build on the technique after that. Like every other subject in the course, you just get a basic introduction, and then you're on your own to figure out how to develop it in the future. The course is good for what it is.

Quote
Anyway, I should be able to finish lesson 10 by end of next week, now mastering "Wally Polly Doodle" from supplemental book 1.
--stoppa


That's wonderful. Keep up the good work. I do believe it will be worth all the time and effort. We will reap what we sow and Duane is giving us good seeds to plant that I believe will produce much fruit if we do our part. I wish you all the best in your journey.

God bless,
David


Kawai MP-11SE
Macbook Air/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-30 Completed
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2611734
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I finally finished lesson 7. It took me two weeks to finish. This is the first lesson in the series that took me more than a week. I actually had the music in the books competed in the first week, but then I spent the second week applying previous techniques into the songs. This type of practice is something that Duane encourages, and in lesson 7 he gave some instruction on what could be done with the songs. I can tell this course is going to take more than a year (for me) since a lot of the practice is going to include more than what is written in the books. I would imagine as I learn more techniques, the practice is going to get longer and more difficult.

Here is an upload of a song from lesson 7 ("Sonata Theme") that I arranged using techniques from the previous lessons. I added a little more intricate swing bass, and arpeggios in the left hand, and a little more harmony to the melody in the right hand rather than just the single note melody as written in the book. I can't wait to start lesson 8 tomorrow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owPbGUIy31E

God Bless,
David




Last edited by David B; 02/05/17 03:12 AM.

Kawai MP-11SE
Macbook Air/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-30 Completed
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: David B] #2611771
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Nice job.
Hang in there!
And don't rush to the next song.


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Opus 599. Now at #77 and giving it a break.
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: David B] #2611779
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Very well done.

It appears you have the right idea.

If you just keep "inching" along and you will come out the other side as a very good player.



Don

Current: ES8, SennHeiser HD598 Phones, Spacestation v.3 Powered Stereo Monitor, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors (as Subwoofer).
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: RaggedKeyPresser] #2612309
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Originally Posted by RaggedKeyPresser

...And don't rush to the next song.


That's a good counsel. A lot of the songs in the books don't appeal to me from a melody standpoint. Therefore, I don't spend the time to really get them perfect since I'm probably never going to play them again. However, I've had to think about when is the appropriate time to move on.

So far through lesson 7 the course has mostly been an exercise in sight reading for me. Therefore, when I stop reading the music and start playing the song from memory, I figure it's time to move on even if the song is not perfect. Some songs I stay a little longer with because I like them better.

Lesson 8 is introducing a new technique (Alberti bass), so combining that with the swing bass and broken chord rhythms, the practice time is going to get longer with the songs I want to apply those techniques to.

I guess for me it's going to be whether I like the song and I feel it's worth spending the extra time on it. One of the songs in lesson 8 is a hymn (My faith looks up to Thee) and I really love the hymns. So that song is going to get some special attention.

I think that slowing down and enjoying the journey is good counsel. Thanks.

God Bless,
David


Kawai MP-11SE
Macbook Air/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-30 Completed
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: dmd] #2612310
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Originally Posted by dmd
Very well done.

It appears you have the right idea.

If you just keep "inching" along and you will come out the other side as a very good player.



That's what I'm hoping for. Thanks for the encouragement.

God Bless,
David


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Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-30 Completed
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: David B] #2612326
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Originally Posted by David B
Originally Posted by RaggedKeyPresser

...And don't rush to the next song.


A lot of the songs in the books don't appeal to me from a melody standpoint. Therefore, I don't spend the time to really get them perfect since I'm probably never going to play them again. However, I've had to think about when is the appropriate time to move on.

Some songs I stay a little longer with because I like them better.

Lesson 8 is introducing a new technique (Alberti bass), so combining that with the swing bass and broken chord rhythms, the practice time is going to get longer with the songs I want to apply those techniques to.

I guess for me it's going to be whether I like the song and I feel it's worth spending the extra time on it.

I think that slowing down and enjoying the journey is good counsel. Thanks.

God Bless,
David

David,
Some thoughts...
One way might be to clearly establish what is being taught in each lesson, and what needs to be worked on and conquered. And make sure it is a step-by-step process, with the steps not too far apart.
Then abandon the worn out, sometimes uninteresting melody, and replace it with something else since the melody itself serves no purpose at all really in this case.
Be creative, turn the melody upside down, play it backwards, replace it with scale fragments, chord arpeggios, use some other melody or make up your own, anything, if you actually really need something for the RH.
The point is to work on the stuff what seems to matter for the LH mainly at this stage. Otherwise come up with melody or scale fragments in 3rds or 6ths for the RH...or anything that fits in, and combine it with the LH.
What is scary and what might seem difficult is to abandon the strict teaching material. But it is possible to return to it at any time.

I think the trick is to take control of the material being learned and master it at every level, but only what is of importance. And that includes all the theory behind each piece. When you know that, there is nothing to memorize and the current piece is just there. It doesn't have to be saved in permanent memory for all eternity.

Might seem like a daunting task, but not too bad at this level of music. And it gets easier with the habit of always doing it.

I've been exactly at the same situation and working on the same course. I didn't know at that time what I know now, though. It also takes time to develop the ear...really.

I would say, stick to the course, sort out what is important and master that, don't be a hostage to the melody...abandon and replace at will.


Czerny's Piano School Vol. 1. Reviewing basics/ear training/analysis in interesting exercises.
Opus 599. Now at #77 and giving it a break.
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2612361
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I dug out my copy of the same course. It's been a long time since I looked at this and I've taken on a different learning course of action later. I thought I would find it interesting to see my view of the material at this point of the game.
I checked out lesson 5 and the song Faith Of Our Fathers.

My first impression is that there is WAY too much spoon feeding for my taste (I don't speak for anybody else). All the extra material gets in the way of the real stuff. I had to sort out and discard a lot of unessential stuff.

I thought I would explore how to most efficiently (for me anyway) to learn the song (Which really is the main objective here...no difficult keyboard finger skills to work on here. Not a technical skills lesson. So it's really a song learning lesson.), I disassemble it and reduce it to:

Key C
3/4 time
No modulation...just an extra chord for flavour (can be used as a memory aid)
Structure in multiples of 4 bars
Organised as verse...verse...tag
One chord strike for the whole bar repeated throughout
Every repeated chord is using the same established fingering

Bars 1-4: I I IV I Main melodic idea...call
5-8: IV I V7/V V7 response

9-12 I I IV I Original idea
13-16 IV I V7 I Variation of response

17-20 IV I V7 I Tag...call
21-24 I IV V7 I ...response harking back to orig. melody...ending on perf. cadence

Learn the simple melody in RH (No harmonizing notes etc) by ear and memory
Drill the chord changes in the LH (Nothing unusual...spend a bit extra time on the V7/V to V7 memorize the chord name and finger movements)
Memorize the sound of the chord movements

That's about it...

No need to do anything more with this. No unique chord progressions to memorize long term...all standard.
No need to long term memorize this. Once learned, then next time referring to my reduced notes it would only take a few minutes or less to relearn into short term memory.


Czerny's Piano School Vol. 1. Reviewing basics/ear training/analysis in interesting exercises.
Opus 599. Now at #77 and giving it a break.
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: RaggedKeyPresser] #2612368
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Originally Posted by RaggedKeyPresser

Some thoughts...
I've been exactly at the same situation and working on the same course. I didn't know at that time what I know now, though. It also takes time to develop the ear...really.

I would say, stick to the course, sort out what is important and master that, don't be a hostage to the melody...abandon and replace at will.


Thank you. I've read your post in it's entirety and I appreciate the thoughtful advise and I can see the wisdom in it.

Did you eventually complete the course?

God Bless,
David

Last edited by David B; 02/07/17 11:41 AM.

Kawai MP-11SE
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Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-30 Completed
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: David B] #2612687
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Originally Posted by David B
Originally Posted by RaggedKeyPresser

Some thoughts...
I've been exactly at the same situation and working on the same course. I didn't know at that time what I know now, though. It also takes time to develop the ear...really.

I would say, stick to the course, sort out what is important and master that, don't be a hostage to the melody...abandon and replace at will.


Thank you. I've read your post in it's entirety and I appreciate the thoughtful advise and I can see the wisdom in it.

Did you eventually complete the course?

God Bless,
David


Thanks David,
I finished lesson 16 and started on lesson 17. Then I ran out of steam/interest, and started looking at other options.
Probably because I realized that I needed to work on, or else miss out on, learning real traditional classical techniques.
Stuff that is for now anyway simple harmonically, but very challenging (and sometimes rapid) finger techniques, LH - RH coordination etc.

It's not that I've totally written off this course, though. Not at all.
I'm planning to go through it later song by song with more patience, after reaching a certain standard on the classical techniques, or possibly even before on and off.

And then I will sift through all the stuff to make it structurally easy to know and learn quickly. Like a road-map of the piece.
Once finding the way to Grandma's...map not needed anymore.
Only for later reviews.

I'm not satisfied with just playing from sight-reading.
And my mind is really balking at the idea of memorizing a piece from start to end without understanding anything, but the sound. I guess that is after I realized that it can be played both without sheet music and without the process of memorization.
And that done just from knowing the structure and knowing all the details of the song.
So that's why I like to break it down into smithereens, sort, classify, and the job is done.
Reverse engineering.


Czerny's Piano School Vol. 1. Reviewing basics/ear training/analysis in interesting exercises.
Opus 599. Now at #77 and giving it a break.
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: RaggedKeyPresser] #2615118
02/16/17 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by RaggedKeyPresser
Thanks David,
I finished lesson 16 and started on lesson 17. Then I ran out of steam/interest, and started looking at other options.


This is an all-too-common occurrence.

We buy the "Final Solution" with great hopes for nirvana.

But, alas ... it does not turn out as we had hoped.

For that reason I would be reluctant to spend that kind of money on piano instructional materials.

In the final analysis, it seems that lessons with a teacher can end up being the best option. With maybe some software lessons or books adding to an occasional lesson.

Or NOT !!

Who knows. We all are searching for "the answer" but there does not seem to be one size fits all.

Good Luck



Last edited by dmd; 02/16/17 03:11 PM.

Don

Current: ES8, SennHeiser HD598 Phones, Spacestation v.3 Powered Stereo Monitor, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors (as Subwoofer).
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2620677
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I finished lesson 9 and will be starting lesson 10 this week. Here is an arrangement of a hymn from lesson 8 (I love the hymns) in which I have found a way to work in all the techniques covered by Duane through lesson 9. It has Alberti bass (which was new to me), stride rhythm in the left hand, a walk up, and contrary movement. The piano sound is my new Ravenscroft 275. I can't wait to start lesson 10. Duane keeps giving a preview of what we'll be learning and it makes me wish I had eight hours a day to practice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbxT-oQGoNU

God Bless,
David


Kawai MP-11SE
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Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-30 Completed
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