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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535449
04/30/16 10:40 AM
04/30/16 10:40 AM
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TonyB Offline OP
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The way I am approaching the course now, I should have at least (probably more) 60 - 70 hours of solid, focused time PLAYING the piano by the time I get to that "swing bass" lesson again. That is where I was sorely lacking the first time. As far as playing slowly, I get it. I taught myself to play fingerstyle guitar with that alternating bass like Chet Atkins and Merle Travis. It took me an entire summer of focusing on little else, but when I got it, I have it for life and it is as natural as walking regardless of what chord I am playing.

The piano will be more difficult because the entire hand is having to move very specific distances AND that same hand has to grab very specific clusters AND the right hand is playing something else entirely. However, I have proved to myself with the guitar that I can do these things.

I can post more response as time permits...

Tony

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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535457
04/30/16 10:58 AM
04/30/16 10:58 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
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Hernando, MS
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fizikisto Offline
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TonyB,
I hear you. Sometimes you just gotta fish or cut bait. I think one of the things that duane suggests at one point is keeping a journal of your progress. So I think this thread could serve that purpose, at least that's how i'm going to look at it. smile So I think I'll keep posting here regardless. I hope that you'll keep posting here as you go through lessons, even if it's only occasionally, but either way don't ever feel obligated to respond to my ramblings. Respond, or not, as you have time and inclination. smile I got some really good practice in this morning. I tend to post here a bit more because I find that I get good benefit out of short intense practice. So I'll work on something for 15-20 minutes very focused, then I'll stop and come goof off online or watch tv for 20 or 30 min, or do chores or something, then back to the piano for another 15-20 min. I find that over the course of a day I can get in 3-4 hours of good practice that way, whereas if I try to push through for an hour or more in one sitting I burn out from the piano for that day.

Anyway, I'm going to try to get in another bit of practice before I have to head into the office. Have a great day!


Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535490
04/30/16 01:50 PM
04/30/16 01:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 611
Rocky Mountains, USA
EP Offline
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I haven't completely read through all the posts, so forgive me if I'm off-base, but my recommendation is to think of the lessons in "layers", meaning that it's OK to go through the lessons as a beginner, say, and not try to master all the techniques the first time through. The second time through you already know the easier material so you review it, then work on the next layer, etc. Otherwise you can get hung up on a lesson because, realistically, it would take you a long time to really master all the techniques he covers in a single lesson (e.g. the aforementioned lesson 17). Do what you can, master the easier material, move on and come back through it later. JMHO

Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535493
04/30/16 02:06 PM
04/30/16 02:06 PM
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Hernando, MS
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fizikisto Offline
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EP,
That's kind of been my approach. I've gone through a bunch of the lessons, now I'm starting back at the beginning and reviewing them as I try to continue to progress through new lessons. My workload is at work is going to be crazy for the next two weeks, then I'll have a lot more time to devote to the course. When people have asked about the course before, I say that even though it's called the 52 week crash course, there's literally years worth of material to work on here, it just depends on how deep into the rabbit hole that you want to journey. smile


Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535498
04/30/16 02:16 PM
04/30/16 02:16 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,130
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dmd Offline
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Hi Tony and Fiz,

I am considering purchasing this course.

You may be able to help me decide.

I have been playing for about 10 years and can play simple classical pieces by rote and for about 3 years I have been working on jazz standards. I wish to pick up a jazz fakebook and work up an arrangement (my arrangement) in a short period (less than a week) that will sound like I know what I am doing. I also wish to not play it exactly the same everytime I play it. I wish to do some deciding about how to play it as I am playing it.

I see Duane Shinn doing that sort of thing and I am wondering if you see that sort of thing at some point in this course.

I need it to be to some really full versions of jazz music and not simple tunes like Go Tell Aunt Rhody, etc ...


Do you see the later lessons presenting instruction of that nature ?

Also, I am wondering if each lesson is presented in video form as well as written material ?


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Casio PX-160, SennHeiser HD 555 Headphones, Apple iPad Mini, Spacestation v.3 Powered Stereo Monitor, Focal CMS 40 Monitors
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535517
04/30/16 03:11 PM
04/30/16 03:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,640
Hernando, MS
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fizikisto Offline
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dmd,
Hmmmm....that's a difficult question to answer because the answer is definitely maybe. Let me try to explain that a bit better:

Here are some points that one might use to argue that the answer to your question is "No." This is not a course geared towards playing jazz. The pieces played are not part of the standard (or even atypical) jazz repertoire. The instruction is not jazz specific. if you go through this course you're not going to be playing the music you want, so it might not be very useful to you.

Here are some points that one might argue to say that the answer to your question is "Yes." The course is all about reading music (both from traditional notation used in classical music as well as lead sheet notation more commonly used in jazz), analyzing it and understanding it, and then arranging it in a myriad of different ways. The specific (admittedly cheesy) pieces used in the course are immaterial. The course is not about learning to play those specific pieces it's about learning to really understand chords and use that knowledge for arranging. You might even call it a course in arranging. So, you'll learn all kinds of techniques, different chord voicings, runs, fills, etc...that are directly applicable to jazz arrangements. So yes, you want to sit down with a lead sheet from a fake book and play the song 20 different ways, this course will give you that if you work through it. So while it's not jazz specific, it will give you a springboard from which you can then further your jazz education.

I know that's probably not very helpful. I'm hesitant to recommend the course because it's so expensive...I'd hate for you to spend all that money and say "this is of no use to me!" but then again, it actually might be of use to you so I don't want to give a definitive no.

I'm going to send you a PM with some additional information that might be helpful for your decision.

Warm Regards,





Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: dmd] #2535522
04/30/16 03:30 PM
04/30/16 03:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,357
Twin Cities
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TonyB Offline OP
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Originally Posted by dmd
Hi Tony and Fiz,

I am considering purchasing this course.

You may be able to help me decide.

I have been playing for about 10 years and can play simple classical pieces by rote and for about 3 years I have been working on jazz standards. I wish to pick up a jazz fakebook and work up an arrangement (my arrangement) in a short period (less than a week) that will sound like I know what I am doing. I also wish to not play it exactly the same everytime I play it. I wish to do some deciding about how to play it as I am playing it.

I see Duane Shinn doing that sort of thing and I am wondering if you see that sort of thing at some point in this course.

I need it to be to some really full versions of jazz music and not simple tunes like Go Tell Aunt Rhody, etc ...


Do you see the later lessons presenting instruction of that nature ?

Also, I am wondering if each lesson is presented in video form as well as written material ?


Given what you have said here, I would recommend taking a look at Willie Myette's courses. He has shorter courses that focus on specific things. He will walk you step by step through tunes, doing exactly what you have said here that you want to learn. If you really have been playing piano 10 years, I would think you would be able to work with his courses without too much trouble.

I have pretty much wasted my time with piano so far, as I have discussed quite frankly and openly in this thread. However, when I was teaching myself to play guitar, I was focused and driven, and was playing professionally in fewer years than that. 10 years is a decent length of time to become at least very familiar with the instrument. Willie has many courses that would take anywhere from a week to maybe a month or two to get through IF you are already playing piano as you describe. You choose the song from among hi library of courses.

I have purchased several of these for use in the future. He also has a subscription if you wish to go that route instead. What I can say with certainty is that what you want to learn is his forte. Duane Shinn's course, from what I have seen of it so far (including looking ahead) would prepare you to be able to work with Willie Myette's materials. I doubt you would need that preparation.

Tony


Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535527
04/30/16 03:38 PM
04/30/16 03:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
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TonyB Offline OP
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In response to both EP and Fizikisto...

I too am practicing in several 15-20 minute segments. I have done three so far today. During the week, I do 4 of these in the evening. I am aiming for 6 per day during the weekend. Currently, I am halfway through lesson 3. I MAY get through the lesson this weekend. If not, then I just continue with it into next week - as long as it takes to go beyond just "kinda sorta" being able to play the tunes.

David Sudnow talked in his course about how, when you are learning a tune, you are learning many skills that you may not be aware of at the time. That is why I am taking care instead of charging through it this time. Michelle McLaughlin says that on her web site where she talks about learning to play George Winston's music, album by album by ear off the recordings. she says that this is how she learned to play piano. It is in the process of learning and getting it right that we are learning to play.

The "layered" approach does make sense and I don't mean to argue against it. I can see revisiting a course of this magnitude several times rather than getting it all the first time through.

As for posting here, I will - but only when I am sure I will make my practice quota for that day. I just don't want to get derailed with all the "talk talk". I can tend to get lost in that if I am not careful. I don't get into social media because I don't want to get swallowed up in it. I see my wife's Facebook page, and people seem to want to tell the world every time they brush their teeth or something. I don't want to get that way about what I am doing on the piano.

Tony


Last edited by TonyB; 04/30/16 03:40 PM.
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535529
04/30/16 03:40 PM
04/30/16 03:40 PM
Joined: May 2012
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$997? isn't somebody gonna mention the astronomical price of this course? When I first started to learn to play the piano I did look at this course but the cost put me off. 

I have purchased some Duane Shin courses. But I have not started any of them yet, you can see which ones by looking at this dedicated page on my website. www.cmajornine.webspace.virginmedia.com/page13.html


If anyone has any Duane Shinn courses you would like to sell at a bargin price get in touch. Looking for "Pro Secrets" ,"52 week", or any " Hymn or Gospel" courses. So come on all you procrastinators get in touch


Sent from Samsung tablet

Last edited by cmajornine; 04/30/16 03:42 PM.

I am learning to play the piano. My main influences are Gospel, R&B and Jazz piano
Visit http://cmajorninekeyz.info/index.html

Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535541
04/30/16 04:27 PM
04/30/16 04:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,130
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dmd Offline
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Originally Posted by TonyB
Originally Posted by dmd
Hi Tony and Fiz,

I am considering purchasing this course.

You may be able to help me decide.

I have been playing for about 10 years and can play simple classical pieces by rote and for about 3 years I have been working on jazz standards. I wish to pick up a jazz fakebook and work up an arrangement (my arrangement) in a short period (less than a week) that will sound like I know what I am doing. I also wish to not play it exactly the same everytime I play it. I wish to do some deciding about how to play it as I am playing it.

I see Duane Shinn doing that sort of thing and I am wondering if you see that sort of thing at some point in this course.

I need it to be to some really full versions of jazz music and not simple tunes like Go Tell Aunt Rhody, etc ...


Do you see the later lessons presenting instruction of that nature ?

Also, I am wondering if each lesson is presented in video form as well as written material ?


Given what you have said here, I would recommend taking a look at Willie Myette's courses. He has shorter courses that focus on specific things. He will walk you step by step through tunes, doing exactly what you have said here that you want to learn. If you really have been playing piano 10 years, I would think you would be able to work with his courses without too much trouble.

I have pretty much wasted my time with piano so far, as I have discussed quite frankly and openly in this thread. However, when I was teaching myself to play guitar, I was focused and driven, and was playing professionally in fewer years than that. 10 years is a decent length of time to become at least very familiar with the instrument. Willie has many courses that would take anywhere from a week to maybe a month or two to get through IF you are already playing piano as you describe. You choose the song from among hi library of courses.

I have purchased several of these for use in the future. He also has a subscription if you wish to go that route instead. What I can say with certainty is that what you want to learn is his forte. Duane Shinn's course, from what I have seen of it so far (including looking ahead) would prepare you to be able to work with Willie Myette's materials. I doubt you would need that preparation.

Tony



Yes, Willie's site is all about what I am trying to learn.

However, the material never seems generic enough for me. I want generic techniques with which I can build my own arrangements instead of simply "memorizing" his arrangements.

I am finished with memorizing someone else's arrangement. That is just not attractive to me anymore. A memorized piece only is applicable to that particular piece of music and there seems to be little carryover to another piece of music. Oh, I am sure there is some but I just do not want to spend all that time perfectly some fancy way of playing something when I could build a simpler but very nice arrangement in an hour of my time using generic techniques.

I know Duane Shinn's course teaches generic methods but since it does not utilize the jazz genre I may get bored with the music and stop doing it. I know that can happen.

I pick up one of Willie's courses from time to time and I never really finish it because it either gets too hard or I lose interest in it.

I am at a point now where what I do from time to time is pick a piece out of a jazz fakebook and just play a single note melody line with the right hand and the bass note in the left hand and run through it with "feeling". Then perhaps do the root and fifth with left hand with melody and cord tone in right hand and build that up to an arrangement. That is the sort of process I wish to pursue now ... not doing exactly what someone else tells me to do. I need some help with that sort of process of building an arrangement.

I Duane Shinn's course did that I would give him the $997 in a heartbeat.

But, alas, there seems to be nothing like that anywhere.



Don

Kawai MP11SE, Casio PX-160, SennHeiser HD 555 Headphones, Apple iPad Mini, Spacestation v.3 Powered Stereo Monitor, Focal CMS 40 Monitors
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535546
04/30/16 04:37 PM
04/30/16 04:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,640
Hernando, MS
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fizikisto Offline
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Hernando, MS
cmajornine,
I think I did actually mention the cost earlier, but maybe that was in another thread (too lazy to look back). Expensive is a relative thing. The course is modeled on the idea of 52 weekly lessons on DVD. That's less than $20/lesson. It's the exact same material that Duane used to teach to his private, in person, students. Private piano lessons can easily cost $50-100/hour. So probably for a year of lessons you're looking at $3000/more. And the lessons on the crash course are very dense. There's easily enough material for 2 or 3 years of lessons if you really delve deep into the content.

So if you're comparing it to buying the Alfred's Method books for $30-40 then yes it must seem crazy expensive. If, on the other hand you're comparing it to private lessons (which the course is modeled on), then it's quite inexpensive in comparison. Plus, if you work through the crash course you'll learn far far more than you would learn with something like the Alfred's method.

Now for some people, the price is going to be a disqualifying factor. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. The course is not for everyone. If someone wanted to focus on classical music exclusively, or like dmd, focus on jazz exclusively then probably it's not the best course for them.

But, for those who just really want to build a solid and diverse foundation in playing piano, for those who want to learn arranging and improvising as well as playing from the written score, for those who want to learn to read traditional music notation as well as lead sheets, there's really not anything comparable in the market. Duane is able to charge that high price (and presumably sell a good number of courses) because what he has to offer is valuable to those who want to learn it.

Warm Regards


Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535555
04/30/16 04:50 PM
04/30/16 04:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
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Hernando, MS
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fizikisto Offline
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dmd,
Duane does have some smaller courses on arranging techniques, runs and fillers (including a large section of jazz related runs/fillers), etc... Some of those smaller courses might be much more in line with what you want, or at least give you a better piece of it.

http://www.playpiano.com/musical-courses/block-chord-styles.htm

http://www.playpianocatalog.com/piano-runs--fills-galore.html

http://www.playpianocatalog.com/karhowtodoit.html

etc...might be of use to you.


Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: fizikisto] #2535558
04/30/16 04:56 PM
04/30/16 04:56 PM
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Posts: 4,130
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dmd Offline
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Originally Posted by fizikisto
dmd,
Duane does have some smaller courses on arranging techniques, runs and fillers (including a large section of jazz related runs/fillers), etc... Some of those smaller courses might be much more in line with what you want, or at least give you a better piece of it.

http://www.playpiano.com/musical-courses/block-chord-styles.htm

http://www.playpianocatalog.com/piano-runs--fills-galore.html

http://www.playpianocatalog.com/karhowtodoit.html

etc...might be of use to you.


I have a few of his courses and I think I am going to take another run at ... How To Dress Up Naked Music.

That course has some good material and I may be ready for it now.

Thanks to this thread I now have the necessary motivation to pick it up again.

Thanks


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Casio PX-160, SennHeiser HD 555 Headphones, Apple iPad Mini, Spacestation v.3 Powered Stereo Monitor, Focal CMS 40 Monitors
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: dmd] #2535562
04/30/16 05:18 PM
04/30/16 05:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,357
Twin Cities
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TonyB Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2007
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Twin Cities
Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by TonyB
Originally Posted by dmd
Hi Tony and Fiz,

I am considering purchasing this course.

You may be able to help me decide.

I have been playing for about 10 years and can play simple classical pieces by rote and for about 3 years I have been working on jazz standards. I wish to pick up a jazz fakebook and work up an arrangement (my arrangement) in a short period (less than a week) that will sound like I know what I am doing. I also wish to not play it exactly the same everytime I play it. I wish to do some deciding about how to play it as I am playing it.

I see Duane Shinn doing that sort of thing and I am wondering if you see that sort of thing at some point in this course.

I need it to be to some really full versions of jazz music and not simple tunes like Go Tell Aunt Rhody, etc ...


Do you see the later lessons presenting instruction of that nature ?

Also, I am wondering if each lesson is presented in video form as well as written material ?


Given what you have said here, I would recommend taking a look at Willie Myette's courses. He has shorter courses that focus on specific things. He will walk you step by step through tunes, doing exactly what you have said here that you want to learn. If you really have been playing piano 10 years, I would think you would be able to work with his courses without too much trouble.

I have pretty much wasted my time with piano so far, as I have discussed quite frankly and openly in this thread. However, when I was teaching myself to play guitar, I was focused and driven, and was playing professionally in fewer years than that. 10 years is a decent length of time to become at least very familiar with the instrument. Willie has many courses that would take anywhere from a week to maybe a month or two to get through IF you are already playing piano as you describe. You choose the song from among hi library of courses.

I have purchased several of these for use in the future. He also has a subscription if you wish to go that route instead. What I can say with certainty is that what you want to learn is his forte. Duane Shinn's course, from what I have seen of it so far (including looking ahead) would prepare you to be able to work with Willie Myette's materials. I doubt you would need that preparation.

Tony



Yes, Willie's site is all about what I am trying to learn.

However, the material never seems generic enough for me. I want generic techniques with which I can build my own arrangements instead of simply "memorizing" his arrangements.

I am finished with memorizing someone else's arrangement. That is just not attractive to me anymore. A memorized piece only is applicable to that particular piece of music and there seems to be little carryover to another piece of music. Oh, I am sure there is some but I just do not want to spend all that time perfectly some fancy way of playing something when I could build a simpler but very nice arrangement in an hour of my time using generic techniques.

I know Duane Shinn's course teaches generic methods but since it does not utilize the jazz genre I may get bored with the music and stop doing it. I know that can happen.

I pick up one of Willie's courses from time to time and I never really finish it because it either gets too hard or I lose interest in it.

I am at a point now where what I do from time to time is pick a piece out of a jazz fakebook and just play a single note melody line with the right hand and the bass note in the left hand and run through it with "feeling". Then perhaps do the root and fifth with left hand with melody and cord tone in right hand and build that up to an arrangement. That is the sort of process I wish to pursue now ... not doing exactly what someone else tells me to do. I need some help with that sort of process of building an arrangement.

I Duane Shinn's course did that I would give him the $997 in a heartbeat.

But, alas, there seems to be nothing like that anywhere.



You probably have not looked at all of Willie's catalog. He has courses in which he teaches you how to do this arranging, and in the courses that he teaches specific songs, he is teaching you how to arrange any tune in that genre.

Another possibility is the Sudnow method, which has been discussed in the forums.

Tony


Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: dmd] #2535568
04/30/16 05:42 PM
04/30/16 05:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,357
Twin Cities
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TonyB Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,357
Twin Cities
Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by fizikisto
dmd,
Duane does have some smaller courses on arranging techniques, runs and fillers (including a large section of jazz related runs/fillers), etc... Some of those smaller courses might be much more in line with what you want, or at least give you a better piece of it.

http://www.playpiano.com/musical-courses/block-chord-styles.htm

http://www.playpianocatalog.com/piano-runs--fills-galore.html

http://www.playpianocatalog.com/karhowtodoit.html

etc...might be of use to you.


I have a few of his courses and I think I am going to take another run at ... How To Dress Up Naked Music.

That course has some good material and I may be ready for it now.

Thanks to this thread I now have the necessary motivation to pick it up again.

Thanks


Now that is enough to convince me to continue posting here as I progress. Whatever course you choose, I hope you do coninue in this thread.

As a relative beginner on piano (the perpetual beginner syndrome...), the choice for me was easy. Duane Shinn's 52 week course starts at the beginning and assumes nothing in terms of prior experience.

However, for you with 10 years in, the decision might be a bit more difficult. Any course that does not start at the very beginning, can pretty much start anywhere and it is up to you to determine if that starting point is where you are. Unfortunately, I don't know how one would do that without buying the course first.

I also have the "How To Dress U Naked Music". That course pretty much assumes you have been playing a while and it really is showing you various licks and runs and how/where to use them. The assumption is that you can play well enough to handle those runs and licks, and that you are already playing songs to begin with. You might be there and ready to go. I certainly am not...yet. smile

I bought these other Shinn courses knowing that I needed to get through the 52 week course first, so there really are no surprises for me when I look through where these other courses start.

Tony


Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535570
04/30/16 05:44 PM
04/30/16 05:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,130
Pennsylvania
D
dmd Offline
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dmd  Offline
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D

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,130
Pennsylvania
Originally Posted by TonyB
Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by TonyB
Originally Posted by dmd
Hi Tony and Fiz,

I am considering purchasing this course.

You may be able to help me decide.

I have been playing for about 10 years and can play simple classical pieces by rote and for about 3 years I have been working on jazz standards. I wish to pick up a jazz fakebook and work up an arrangement (my arrangement) in a short period (less than a week) that will sound like I know what I am doing. I also wish to not play it exactly the same everytime I play it. I wish to do some deciding about how to play it as I am playing it.

I see Duane Shinn doing that sort of thing and I am wondering if you see that sort of thing at some point in this course.

I need it to be to some really full versions of jazz music and not simple tunes like Go Tell Aunt Rhody, etc ...


Do you see the later lessons presenting instruction of that nature ?

Also, I am wondering if each lesson is presented in video form as well as written material ?


Given what you have said here, I would recommend taking a look at Willie Myette's courses. He has shorter courses that focus on specific things. He will walk you step by step through tunes, doing exactly what you have said here that you want to learn. If you really have been playing piano 10 years, I would think you would be able to work with his courses without too much trouble.

I have pretty much wasted my time with piano so far, as I have discussed quite frankly and openly in this thread. However, when I was teaching myself to play guitar, I was focused and driven, and was playing professionally in fewer years than that. 10 years is a decent length of time to become at least very familiar with the instrument. Willie has many courses that would take anywhere from a week to maybe a month or two to get through IF you are already playing piano as you describe. You choose the song from among hi library of courses.

I have purchased several of these for use in the future. He also has a subscription if you wish to go that route instead. What I can say with certainty is that what you want to learn is his forte. Duane Shinn's course, from what I have seen of it so far (including looking ahead) would prepare you to be able to work with Willie Myette's materials. I doubt you would need that preparation.

Tony



Yes, Willie's site is all about what I am trying to learn.

However, the material never seems generic enough for me. I want generic techniques with which I can build my own arrangements instead of simply "memorizing" his arrangements.

I am finished with memorizing someone else's arrangement. That is just not attractive to me anymore. A memorized piece only is applicable to that particular piece of music and there seems to be little carryover to another piece of music. Oh, I am sure there is some but I just do not want to spend all that time perfectly some fancy way of playing something when I could build a simpler but very nice arrangement in an hour of my time using generic techniques.

I know Duane Shinn's course teaches generic methods but since it does not utilize the jazz genre I may get bored with the music and stop doing it. I know that can happen.

I pick up one of Willie's courses from time to time and I never really finish it because it either gets too hard or I lose interest in it.

I am at a point now where what I do from time to time is pick a piece out of a jazz fakebook and just play a single note melody line with the right hand and the bass note in the left hand and run through it with "feeling". Then perhaps do the root and fifth with left hand with melody and cord tone in right hand and build that up to an arrangement. That is the sort of process I wish to pursue now ... not doing exactly what someone else tells me to do. I need some help with that sort of process of building an arrangement.

I Duane Shinn's course did that I would give him the $997 in a heartbeat.

But, alas, there seems to be nothing like that anywhere.



You probably have not looked at all of Willie's catalog. He has courses in which he teaches you how to do this arranging, and in the courses that he teaches specific songs, he is teaching you how to arrange any tune in that genre.

Another possibility is the Sudnow method, which has been discussed in the forums.

Tony



Yep ... many options. I have tried most of them.

I was a Sudnow member a few years back. That works somewhat, also.

I just remembered I was a member of Duanes "Inner Circle" a few years ago and I tried logging back onto it and I got in so I may take another run at that.

Lots of options ... LOL .... it just goes on and on ...

Thanks


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Casio PX-160, SennHeiser HD 555 Headphones, Apple iPad Mini, Spacestation v.3 Powered Stereo Monitor, Focal CMS 40 Monitors
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535579
04/30/16 06:34 PM
04/30/16 06:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,640
Hernando, MS
F
fizikisto Offline
1000 Post Club Member
fizikisto  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
F

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,640
Hernando, MS
dmd,
I thought about possibly joining the inner circle thing when I finish the crash course. From the promotional material I gather that each month he picks one song and arranges it a bunch of different ways. I saw that America The Beautiful is (probably?) one of the songs and that there are 12 songs total?. Could you share what other songs he picks to arrange in the membership?


Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: fizikisto] #2535587
04/30/16 07:01 PM
04/30/16 07:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,130
Pennsylvania
D
dmd Offline
4000 Post Club Member
dmd  Offline
4000 Post Club Member
D

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,130
Pennsylvania
Originally Posted by fizikisto
dmd,
I thought about possibly joining the inner circle thing when I finish the crash course. From the promotional material I gather that each month he picks one song and arranges it a bunch of different ways. I saw that America The Beautiful is (probably?) one of the songs and that there are 12 songs total?. Could you share what other songs he picks to arrange in the membership?


America the Beautiful
Battle Hymn of the Republic
Londonderry Air (Danny Boy)
Greensleeves
The Star Spangled Banner
Whispering Hope
Auld Lang Syne
Swing Low Sweet Chariot
Aura Lee
Blue Bells of Scotland
Silent Night
Amazing Grace

There you have it.
I really do not remember much about this course but I do know that I did not end up getting much accomplished.
However, I am more ready for it now and I think I will give it another try.
I just does stuff and talks to you about it as he does it.
If you work through it you will gain a lot from it.
But ... it is not EASY ... make no mistake about that.









Don

Kawai MP11SE, Casio PX-160, SennHeiser HD 555 Headphones, Apple iPad Mini, Spacestation v.3 Powered Stereo Monitor, Focal CMS 40 Monitors
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535588
04/30/16 07:07 PM
04/30/16 07:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,640
Hernando, MS
F
fizikisto Offline
1000 Post Club Member
fizikisto  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
F

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,640
Hernando, MS
dmd
Thank you so much! I appreciate it smile


Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: dmd] #2535611
04/30/16 08:35 PM
04/30/16 08:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,357
Twin Cities
T
TonyB Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
TonyB  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
T

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,357
Twin Cities
Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by TonyB
Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by TonyB
Originally Posted by dmd
Hi Tony and Fiz,

I am considering purchasing this course.

You may be able to help me decide.

I have been playing for about 10 years and can play simple classical pieces by rote and for about 3 years I have been working on jazz standards. I wish to pick up a jazz fakebook and work up an arrangement (my arrangement) in a short period (less than a week) that will sound like I know what I am doing. I also wish to not play it exactly the same everytime I play it. I wish to do some deciding about how to play it as I am playing it.

I see Duane Shinn doing that sort of thing and I am wondering if you see that sort of thing at some point in this course.

I need it to be to some really full versions of jazz music and not simple tunes like Go Tell Aunt Rhody, etc ...


Do you see the later lessons presenting instruction of that nature ?

Also, I am wondering if each lesson is presented in video form as well as written material ?


Given what you have said here, I would recommend taking a look at Willie Myette's courses. He has shorter courses that focus on specific things. He will walk you step by step through tunes, doing exactly what you have said here that you want to learn. If you really have been playing piano 10 years, I would think you would be able to work with his courses without too much trouble.

I have pretty much wasted my time with piano so far, as I have discussed quite frankly and openly in this thread. However, when I was teaching myself to play guitar, I was focused and driven, and was playing professionally in fewer years than that. 10 years is a decent length of time to become at least very familiar with the instrument. Willie has many courses that would take anywhere from a week to maybe a month or two to get through IF you are already playing piano as you describe. You choose the song from among hi library of courses.

I have purchased several of these for use in the future. He also has a subscription if you wish to go that route instead. What I can say with certainty is that what you want to learn is his forte. Duane Shinn's course, from what I have seen of it so far (including looking ahead) would prepare you to be able to work with Willie Myette's materials. I doubt you would need that preparation.

Tony



Yes, Willie's site is all about what I am trying to learn.

However, the material never seems generic enough for me. I want generic techniques with which I can build my own arrangements instead of simply "memorizing" his arrangements.

I am finished with memorizing someone else's arrangement. That is just not attractive to me anymore. A memorized piece only is applicable to that particular piece of music and there seems to be little carryover to another piece of music. Oh, I am sure there is some but I just do not want to spend all that time perfectly some fancy way of playing something when I could build a simpler but very nice arrangement in an hour of my time using generic techniques.

I know Duane Shinn's course teaches generic methods but since it does not utilize the jazz genre I may get bored with the music and stop doing it. I know that can happen.

I pick up one of Willie's courses from time to time and I never really finish it because it either gets too hard or I lose interest in it.

I am at a point now where what I do from time to time is pick a piece out of a jazz fakebook and just play a single note melody line with the right hand and the bass note in the left hand and run through it with "feeling". Then perhaps do the root and fifth with left hand with melody and cord tone in right hand and build that up to an arrangement. That is the sort of process I wish to pursue now ... not doing exactly what someone else tells me to do. I need some help with that sort of process of building an arrangement.

I Duane Shinn's course did that I would give him the $997 in a heartbeat.

But, alas, there seems to be nothing like that anywhere.



You probably have not looked at all of Willie's catalog. He has courses in which he teaches you how to do this arranging, and in the courses that he teaches specific songs, he is teaching you how to arrange any tune in that genre.

Another possibility is the Sudnow method, which has been discussed in the forums.

Tony



Yep ... many options. I have tried most of them.

I was a Sudnow member a few years back. That works somewhat, also.

I just remembered I was a member of Duanes "Inner Circle" a few years ago and I tried logging back onto it and I got in so I may take another run at that.

Lots of options ... LOL .... it just goes on and on ...

Thanks


Wow! What is his "Inner Circle" like? I remember getting emails from him about that, but figured that I should wait until I finished the 52 week course. It sounded like a really good program though.

Edit: Reading on through the rest of the thread so far, you guys do a pretty good job of answering my question.

Tony



Last edited by TonyB; 04/30/16 08:37 PM.
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