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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535311
04/29/16 10:37 PM
04/29/16 10:37 PM
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TonyB, could you share some names of pianists you listen to?


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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535316
04/29/16 11:28 PM
04/29/16 11:28 PM
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Michelle McLaughlin, David Nevue, David Lanz, Liz Story, to name a few.

Tony




Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: fizikisto] #2535324
04/30/16 12:12 AM
04/30/16 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by fizikisto
I'll post my Lesson 1 review sometime tomorrow. Hopefully I'll have some useful things to say about it. smile


Looking forward to your comments! And I think I am now committed to starting the course next week . . .

Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535332
04/30/16 01:14 AM
04/30/16 01:14 AM
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As I mentioned earlier, I wanted to use this thread as an opportunity to review the course and solidify what I have learned and am learning from it. So I’m going to (more or less) try to go back every week and review an old lesson starting from the beginning of the course. My hope is that my thoughts and comments will be useful for someone who is considering taking this course, and also for someone who is going through it. In any case, I just went back and rewatched and played through all the pieces from lesson 1. Here are my comments.

Lesson 1 of 52:

The course uses an old series of method books from the 1960’s-1980’s that seems no longer in print outside of Duane’s course, though apparently they used to be more widely sold. The versions that come with the course (at least the set I have) are in black and white. The originals were in black/white/red. For example, they used red dots on top of an image of the keys to show which notes to play for the various chords. On any such chord diagram with black note, the red dot doesn’t show up in the black and white reproduction. That’s a minor annoyance (Duane shows you exactly what notes to play in the videos) but it is a little annoying.

Some of the songs in the very beginning label every note with its letter name (C E G etc…). I’ve never liked that, but I bet a lot of beginners probably appreciate it. In the original versions of the method books, those letter names are also in red print. Actually, if you’re going to put the letter names next to the notes I think the black and white is probably better; it’s easier to read and less distracting. (For the curious, I managed to find a complete set of the original method books in pretty pristine condition on ebay so I now have both sets)

What’s really annoying about the versions that come with the course is that the page numbers are offset compared to the originals. The effect of that is that for a great many of the two page pieces that come in the books the pieces are on the front and back of a page, and thus require a page turn. I HATE turning pages. In the original books all the two page pieces were formatted on left-right page so that no turning was required. I use my original set for that reason (and for me, thankfully they do stop printing the note names next to the notes after a few pieces). If the need to page turn bother you, one can always make photocopies of the pages to avoid that:

Beginner Tip: I always like to make photocopies of scores that I play from books. I don’t like to mark up the originals, but I freely mark up the copies. I suggest that beginners should always feel free to make notes on the score to help them read it. Sometimes I’ll change the suggested fingering for something that’s more comfortable to my hand, for example, or I’ll highlight things that are tricky as a reminder to myself. Write in notes, draw arrows, do whatever will help you!

Beginner Tip #2: if you have an iPad or an iPad Pro (or presumably an android tablet) you can get a bluetooth pedal that will let you turn the page of any score you have on your device as a PDF or whatever. I don’t own one, but it might be something worth looking into if like me you hate page turning smile presumably one could use the camera to photograph the score and then turn the pages with the pedal. Note: I find the iPad just barely large enough for sheet music to be readable to my not quite old yet but getting there eyes….For sheet music applications I’d definitely recommend the larger iPad Pro tablet.

Anyway, I’ll quit rambling and get on to the lesson.

Lesson 1 starts with an introduction to the keyboard, the islands of black keys among the whites, and naming all the notes from A to G through various octaves, and then showing the location of middle C (next to two black keys, etc…). So pretty much like every first lesson of every beginner piano course ever. smile. It also introduces the use of the “magic keyboard chart” which fits behind the keys and shows the names of all the notes. This is meant to be a temporary crutch to help total newbies find the notes, but duane recommends using it only at the very beginning (if needed) and discarding it as soon as possible. In fact, I think it’s a gimmick and not needed, but if you have the course and are a complete beginner try it out to see if it helps.

The first piece introduced is a right hand melody line of “Merrily We Roll Along.” Then Duane introduces the first two pointer chords C and G. As mentioned before, the pointer chord is just the second inversion of the chord, which is useful because when you play it with your left hand you’re pointing at the root note of the chord (which gives the chord its name) with your index finger. It’s a bit weird to call it a pointer chord, but I suppose that for a beginner “C pointer chord” sounds much less intimidating than “second inversion of the C chord.” smile

Next Merrily we roll along is revisited in lead sheet format. So we see the melody notated in the treble clef and the chord symbols for the G and C chords indicated above the melody line in the appropriate place.

Before you play your first piece, Duane goes over how to hold your hands, how to find a proper and comfortable sitting position in front of the piano, etc…

Duane discusses the technique of practicing hands alone then hands together, and then has you playing your first piece (eventually)with both hands. Largo and Lightly Row are taught next in the same way.

Next is a discussion of of the Treble clef staff with ledger lines, how bar lines define different measures of music. Duane then discusses the three main elements of music, melody, harmony and rhythm. Quarter, half, dotted half, and whole notes are introduced along with a discussion of counting and how to do it properly

Next Duane introduces the F pointer chord and it is used in lead sheet version of Jingle Bells (the bass clef is later introduced in lesson 3)

Pop goes the weasel introduces the concept of 3-4 time signatures.

Drink to me only with thine eyes introduces the concept of tied notes (and is by far the prettiest tune covered in the first lesson)

Next is a further discussion of reading music. Duane talks about intervals (the distance between notes (steps and skips, 2nds, 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, etc…) and how it relates to the written music).

Duane then discusses how to manage/balance the need to watch the score and see your hands as you are playing.

Aunt Rhody is the next song to provide more practice.

Beautiful Brown Eyes introduces the concept of rests (and makes use of the quarter rest) Another pretty tune.

“Folk song” is the next tune. Then there’s a (written) quiz of the material covered.

Then the lesson material is finished up with two additional practice songs, an old hymn, Jesus Lover of my soul and “melody” which is a simplified lead sheet arrangement of a Schuman piece.

Duane uses the supplementary songs to give a preview of what’s to come, as he shows you how to play it as written and then arranges it a few different ways on the fly (this is not an assignment yet, but just a demonstration). This really gives you an idea of how different this course is compared to others. And he only shows a few different techniques here, there are dozens and dozens taught through the course.

As is often the case, duane then recaps the lesson by demonstrating all the important points (which fingers are used on the melody, how to construct the pointer chords, etc… in a “close up” view which zooms in on his keyboard so that you can see exactly what his hands are doing.

As you can see, the first lesson actually covers quite a lot.

———————————

A note about the songs: Like many beginner methods, most of the music is old standards from the 1800’s that are out of copyright (there are also some classical pieces introduced in later lessons). A lot of folk song type stuff that can come across as a little cheesy. But I would say don’t be put off by this because when you start applying g arrangement techniques taught later in the course to these songs, you can really put your own spin on them and make them interesting and musical. it’s a lot of fun.

Anyway, my ramblings aside, I hope that was useful or interesting. If not, feel free to hit the back button and move on to another thread smile


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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: pwl] #2535335
04/30/16 01:30 AM
04/30/16 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by pwl

Looking forward to your comments! And I think I am now committed to starting the course next week . . .


Pwl, Very cool! I hope that you'll pop in and let us know how the course is going for you. The more the merrier!


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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535380
04/30/16 06:17 AM
04/30/16 06:17 AM
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The early stages of the course may seem easy and/or over simplified, however Duane makes the point that everybody should play through all of it, not skipping anything. One reason for this is, as he says, the books are only a part of the course. There is a lot of information and tips n the videos that the books do not contain. Also, it is in the early stages, when the going is relatively easy, that we form the habits and the pace that we will probably adhere to throughout the course. Therefore, if we are to stick with it, forming good habits and a relaxed pace now, will pay off big dividends later on.

Duane talks about really learning each piece. There is good reason for that. If we "kinda sorta" learn these pieces, we are not really getting into our hands the things they need to be able to do, that the later lessons are built on. We can risk gradually falling behind until we reach a point at which it is a real struggle to move forward.

It is in the second lesson, I believe, that Duane starts talking about things we can do with our left hand that are not written in the book at that point. He demonstrates playing the left hand chord on counts 1 and 3 (i.e. twice per measure) and on every beat. This may seem trivial, but it goes a long way toward developing hand independence, not to mention adding interest to the arrangement. It is an invitation to begin experimenting with ways we can play a tune that deviate from the written music. He presents these ideas as suggestions, saying that we don't have to do that now because these ideas will be introduced in the playing later on. Duane will make suggestions of things to experiment with, but he does not want to overwhelm us by making these ideas mandatory too early in the course.

On the CD that you listen to at the end of the second week, he introduces the idea of ear training, and suggests incorporating this into our daily practice. He suggests learning to hear the various intervals (which he explains quite well), and then later on, chords and their inversions. In the main course, as well as on that CD, he explains and demonstrates all these terms as they are introduced. He further suggests we begin to really listen to the music we hear all around us, from the car next to us pounding out the big beat, to music we hear in stores, etc. Begin hearing the rhythms, then the intervals in the melody, and then the chords, as we become more familiar with these in our ear training and lessons.

In a sense, as you progress through the course, the piano becomes more and more a part of your life. We begin to become much more aware of the music around us, incorporating what we hear into our playing. If we see another person do something interesting on the piano such as a particular run or chord pattern, Duane suggests we ask that person to show us what s/he did. Be curious, soaking up all the musical activity going on around us and incorporate that into our own playing.

In this course, essentially Duane is leading us into becoming musicians so that our involvement with the piano is fed from all other aspects of our lives. There is a whole other dimension to the lesson books, and Duane shows how to find and incorporate that into our practice. If we do the things he suggests, we will always be thinking about and experiencing music and the piano, which is far more interesting than just sitting at the piano doing exactly what the sheet music tells us to do, and having that as our only goal. In Duane's course, music becomes a living and vibrant part of our lives, lesson by lesson.

Edit: Duane also addresses the question of whether to stick purely with the music in the lessons or if we should also play other music. He says that, by all means, play all manner of music. The more you read, the better you get. In one of the additional DVDs that you watch early on, he explains how to analyze sheet music so you begin to recognize the chords, the sections of the overall piece, etc. He demonstrates this on a couple of classical pieces. As we learn more about music theory in the course, we become more able to do this sort of analysis, which in turn helps us memorize pieces and understand better how music is put together. This will certainly help us to create our own music, should we choose to do that too.

So, Duane encourages us to explore all manner of music outside the confines of the course books. The more we do this, the better we get at doing this and the more interested we remain throughout the course. It is up to each of us individually how much exploring we do, but the invitation is definitely there to apply what we are learning in the course to any other music we wish to play.

Tony


Last edited by TonyB; 04/30/16 06:24 AM.
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535410
04/30/16 09:09 AM
04/30/16 09:09 AM
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Lots of good advice there. I've been thinking a lot about how I've been approaching this course and I wonder if I'm going about applying the arrangement techniques in the best way. Typically I go through a lesson piece by piece. That is, I'll play a piece as written. then I'll play the assigned arrangement techniques for that piece before moving on to the next piece. That approach is kind of implied, but I don't think ever stated by Duane. I may try experimenting with that. Like work on all the pieces in the as written first then going back and arranging them. That will have me playing the pieces for a few days going back and forth between them, which might help my learning (another kind of spaced repetition) so that when I start arranging them I might have them better under my fingers because I've already been working on them a few days. Or maybe it wold be better to do it in chunks. go through 3 or 4 pieces as written and go back and forth with arranging them before moving on to the next set of 3 or 4 pieces. I think I'm going to experiment with that over the next few weeks and see if it makes a difference. It may not matter at all. But there might be a more efficient approach. When you went through some of the course before did you experiment with anything like that? Of course, it might be that the most efficient approach for me is the least efficient one for you (and vice verse). I know you're restarting at the beginning as you redo the course so it will be awhile before you have to address this again, but I thought it might be worth thinking about so I thought I'd mention it. smile


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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535418
04/30/16 09:35 AM
04/30/16 09:35 AM
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Fizikisto,

When I was working with the course prior to this, I tended to just play the pieces until I got through them. I stopped at the point when Duane was introducing "stride" in the left hand. He has another name for it that I don't recall offhand, but most people know it as "stride" with the left hand playing the root or octave down low and "striding" up to play the chord, sort of "boom chick" sound under the melody in the right hand. In other words, I really didn't develop my hands' ability to really move around on the keyboard enough to be able to get through that lesson on "stride". I am approaching it differently now.

Based on re-listening to the extra DVDs and CD, my approach will be to work on each lesson as Duane says, and then OUTSIDE my lesson practice time, experiment applying those techniques to other music (also, as Duane says). I have plenty of fakebooks, from easy to the standard stuff pro musicians use (i.e. the Real Books).

One thing I have been thinking about as I post here, is that I am barely into the course (halfway through lesson 3), so I really don't feel I have the "right" to speak authoritatively on it yet. The burning question (I would think) if I were reading this thread would be, "yeah, a lot of words and posts, but can he REALLY play?". I want to set a goal for myself that after I complete lesson 17, I want to put up either a video or an MP3 of myself playing a tune and applying the techniques as Duane does in the video for that lesson. At that point, I will be much more comfortable telling everybody how great the course is. Until then, there is always the possibility that I suddenly disappear after having posted hundreds or thousands of words about this wonderful course. The real questions to be answered for a prospective student are whether one can stay motivated in a course like this long enough to really learn to play, and does the course REALLY deliver. I will be able to directly answer both of those if I can deliver as the lesson 17 video does. This, then, is what is missing from most every thread about any self-study course. The exception was Seaside Lee, who posted many videos of himself playing what he learned from the Piano Magic site. I wonder what happened to him, since I have not seen anything from him in quite some time, nor from Swingin Barb, another who posted her playing as learned in the Sudnow method. Those are the only two I can think of who did this, among the many who have posted about having started one or another of the self-study courses. This fact is always brought up by those who are taking formal lessons and are posting in monthly recitals.

I am not saying that you or anybody else should (or should not) post videos or MP3s (and maybe you already have), but instead naming the "elephant in the living room" about these kinds of threads. I feel a bit of a phony "waxing poetic" here about a course I have barely touched. You have almost completed it and have, in a sense, "earned your stripes" with it. I have not (yet...).

Tony


Last edited by TonyB; 04/30/16 09:37 AM.
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535433
04/30/16 10:35 AM
04/30/16 10:35 AM
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Before going off to my activities for the day (including the piano), I should address the points you (Fizikisto) brought up in your last post.

People have said that I am a "linear thinker". I tend to start at the beginning and work through to the end of a project. If I skip around or stop at some point, it is really difficult for me to get going again. I say that because we all have different ways of approaching things, so the things I express in this thread may have absolutely no bearing for anybody else. By telling how I work, at least you will have context for why I say and do the things I do. It is a matter of "take what you need and leave the rest".

So, my approach to the 52 week course will be very linear in that I will work on the lesson every day, starting the next day where I left off the previous day, and taking enough notes as I go along to be able to do that. It may take a few days to get through a lesson, or it may take a few weeks, but either way, it is still lesson after lesson for 52 lessons.

Duane, as I mentioned in a previous post, suggests several activities that are optional, similar to extra credit work in a college course. These activities will serve to deepen the musical experience and make us better musicians in the end.

To me, these suggestions are things to do outside the practice time I set aside for the course. That way, I can approach the course in my linear fashion, which will help insure that I really do complete it, while at the same time, I can skip around with various other pieces of music and the ear training activities, and have no negative/distracting impact on my work with the course itself. These activities I want to approach in a curious and playful manner, enjoying playing around with the things I am learning in the course.

For my style of learning, this will provide a nice balance and will keep things interesting. However, I will also be spending much more time with the piano, and much less time talking about it here.

The remainder of this post is finishing out the commentary about myself and self-learning the piano in general that has been a thread-within-a-thread for the past several of my posts...

I have needed to take an honest and rather blunt look at myself to really get in touch with why I am so good at spending the time to find and buy these courses and even a Roland V-Grand, and so good at posting a lot, but still can't play piano anywhere near where I would be if talking about it was as good as actually doing the work. It is harsh, but hopefully not interpreted as being toward anybody else. I needed to get things said that others in various sub-forums have long hinted at about us self-learners so that I could look at the real truth fearlessly and admit it in public. Only then can I get straight about what I am really doing here.

What I have said need not apply to anybody else here. If any here feel that these do apply, then it is up to you, and not me, take your own "inventory" and get straight with yourself about what you are really doing and why. What I am saying in my posts is really taking my own inventory in public, and reflecting on how true the observations others who do have "real" teachers are as they apply to me and self-study courses. The only way I know of to fix it is to identify and admit it head on, rather than rationalize or deny the truth about myself, and then move on in a (hopefully) better direction.

I don't feel that I need to continue posting about this aspect of my approach (or, rather, not approach) to the 52 week course. The only thing I can do from here is to either do it or don't do it. Every day from here on presents that simple choice. If I am still working on it by lesson 17, I will know that there is success with it in my future and I will have something to show others for all the talk and effort.

Tony


Last edited by TonyB; 04/30/16 10:38 AM.
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535437
04/30/16 10:58 AM
04/30/16 10:58 AM
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Good points! Though I still have a long way to go before I'm finished with the course! I have made good, if slow, progress through it. I actually enjoyed going back through the very first lesson last night. I remembered how much I struggled with those damned arrows! LOL (the ones indicating a repeat chord, the first time I went through the course I always wanted to switch chords when I saw the arrow). Anyway, it really did show me how far I've come since then. I just spent a couple of hours playing all the pieces, I even played them with some different chord inversions than the pointer chords to to play around with different sounds. I may go back later this week and play around with arranging them before i redo lesson 2.

And yeah, one of the reasons i've moved so slowly through the course is because I tend to do stuff with other "more interesting" music from fake books and chord charts. So playing from outside stuff can be good but it can also slow your progress. Going slow is not a bad thing, and It can be more fun that way. But one does have to balance it with actually keeping progress through the course imo. I think there's a certain momentum that one should try to maintain. But at the same time, one could blaze through the course and really end up being a bit sloppy. I tend to want everything yesterday so I may be a bit guilty of that at times. That's one of the reasons I wanted review the old lessons on this thread. As i go through the old lessons, I'm trying to be very strict. Slow steady progress...that's my goal. I know how compound interest works. that's my model. smile

Re: the "stride" yes, that's hard. I think it's like lesson 7 or 8 where you really start applying it, and it took me a month to get through that lesson. Did I mention that it's hard? Also, you may be misremembering the terminology because Duane calls it by different names. In the books it's called "pointer bass" so Duane calls it that when he's going through the book, but when he's just talking about it he calls it by other names. Generally in 3-4 time where you play root-chord-chord he calls that swing bass, and in 4-4 time where you're playing root-chord-root-chord he sometimes calls that continuity bass.

But whatever you call it, it's hard. (yeah there's a theme heheh) So don't feel bad if you get stuck on it for awhile. I know I did. I think the secret to getting it down is to practice it slowly. Nope...let me try that again. the secret is to practice it S-l-o-w-l-y smile. I also found that with lots and lots of practice I could learn to do it with my eyes closed about 80-90% of the time - which is not great, but if I combine it with looking down only occasionally it lets me keep my eyes on the score more than looking down for every jump. For me that's been kind of a goal with songs that use that technique (or when I'm using it to arrange a song that doesn't), keep my eyes on the score as much as possible. For me, that's helped a lot. Your mileage may vary of course.

The good news is that once you get it down on a few songs, it gets MUCH easier to do with new songs. I still have to slow way down when I practice it on a new song because the chord progression is different and of course my right hand is doing different things, but I can pick it up a lot faster on a new song now. I think by the time I get all the way through the course it will probably become second nature for me.

by the way, I'm glad that you started this thread. I'm enjoying the discussion and I think it will help keep me focused and motivated as I continue to progress. smile


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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535449
04/30/16 11:40 AM
04/30/16 11:40 AM
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The way I am approaching the course now, I should have at least (probably more) 60 - 70 hours of solid, focused time PLAYING the piano by the time I get to that "swing bass" lesson again. That is where I was sorely lacking the first time. As far as playing slowly, I get it. I taught myself to play fingerstyle guitar with that alternating bass like Chet Atkins and Merle Travis. It took me an entire summer of focusing on little else, but when I got it, I have it for life and it is as natural as walking regardless of what chord I am playing.

The piano will be more difficult because the entire hand is having to move very specific distances AND that same hand has to grab very specific clusters AND the right hand is playing something else entirely. However, I have proved to myself with the guitar that I can do these things.

I can post more response as time permits...

Tony

Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535457
04/30/16 11:58 AM
04/30/16 11:58 AM
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TonyB,
I hear you. Sometimes you just gotta fish or cut bait. I think one of the things that duane suggests at one point is keeping a journal of your progress. So I think this thread could serve that purpose, at least that's how i'm going to look at it. smile So I think I'll keep posting here regardless. I hope that you'll keep posting here as you go through lessons, even if it's only occasionally, but either way don't ever feel obligated to respond to my ramblings. Respond, or not, as you have time and inclination. smile I got some really good practice in this morning. I tend to post here a bit more because I find that I get good benefit out of short intense practice. So I'll work on something for 15-20 minutes very focused, then I'll stop and come goof off online or watch tv for 20 or 30 min, or do chores or something, then back to the piano for another 15-20 min. I find that over the course of a day I can get in 3-4 hours of good practice that way, whereas if I try to push through for an hour or more in one sitting I burn out from the piano for that day.

Anyway, I'm going to try to get in another bit of practice before I have to head into the office. Have a great day!


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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535490
04/30/16 02:50 PM
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I haven't completely read through all the posts, so forgive me if I'm off-base, but my recommendation is to think of the lessons in "layers", meaning that it's OK to go through the lessons as a beginner, say, and not try to master all the techniques the first time through. The second time through you already know the easier material so you review it, then work on the next layer, etc. Otherwise you can get hung up on a lesson because, realistically, it would take you a long time to really master all the techniques he covers in a single lesson (e.g. the aforementioned lesson 17). Do what you can, master the easier material, move on and come back through it later. JMHO

Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535493
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EP,
That's kind of been my approach. I've gone through a bunch of the lessons, now I'm starting back at the beginning and reviewing them as I try to continue to progress through new lessons. My workload is at work is going to be crazy for the next two weeks, then I'll have a lot more time to devote to the course. When people have asked about the course before, I say that even though it's called the 52 week crash course, there's literally years worth of material to work on here, it just depends on how deep into the rabbit hole that you want to journey. smile


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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535498
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Hi Tony and Fiz,

I am considering purchasing this course.

You may be able to help me decide.

I have been playing for about 10 years and can play simple classical pieces by rote and for about 3 years I have been working on jazz standards. I wish to pick up a jazz fakebook and work up an arrangement (my arrangement) in a short period (less than a week) that will sound like I know what I am doing. I also wish to not play it exactly the same everytime I play it. I wish to do some deciding about how to play it as I am playing it.

I see Duane Shinn doing that sort of thing and I am wondering if you see that sort of thing at some point in this course.

I need it to be to some really full versions of jazz music and not simple tunes like Go Tell Aunt Rhody, etc ...


Do you see the later lessons presenting instruction of that nature ?

Also, I am wondering if each lesson is presented in video form as well as written material ?


Don

Current: ES8, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD598 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535517
04/30/16 04:11 PM
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dmd,
Hmmmm....that's a difficult question to answer because the answer is definitely maybe. Let me try to explain that a bit better:

Here are some points that one might use to argue that the answer to your question is "No." This is not a course geared towards playing jazz. The pieces played are not part of the standard (or even atypical) jazz repertoire. The instruction is not jazz specific. if you go through this course you're not going to be playing the music you want, so it might not be very useful to you.

Here are some points that one might argue to say that the answer to your question is "Yes." The course is all about reading music (both from traditional notation used in classical music as well as lead sheet notation more commonly used in jazz), analyzing it and understanding it, and then arranging it in a myriad of different ways. The specific (admittedly cheesy) pieces used in the course are immaterial. The course is not about learning to play those specific pieces it's about learning to really understand chords and use that knowledge for arranging. You might even call it a course in arranging. So, you'll learn all kinds of techniques, different chord voicings, runs, fills, etc...that are directly applicable to jazz arrangements. So yes, you want to sit down with a lead sheet from a fake book and play the song 20 different ways, this course will give you that if you work through it. So while it's not jazz specific, it will give you a springboard from which you can then further your jazz education.

I know that's probably not very helpful. I'm hesitant to recommend the course because it's so expensive...I'd hate for you to spend all that money and say "this is of no use to me!" but then again, it actually might be of use to you so I don't want to give a definitive no.

I'm going to send you a PM with some additional information that might be helpful for your decision.

Warm Regards,





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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: dmd] #2535522
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Originally Posted by dmd
Hi Tony and Fiz,

I am considering purchasing this course.

You may be able to help me decide.

I have been playing for about 10 years and can play simple classical pieces by rote and for about 3 years I have been working on jazz standards. I wish to pick up a jazz fakebook and work up an arrangement (my arrangement) in a short period (less than a week) that will sound like I know what I am doing. I also wish to not play it exactly the same everytime I play it. I wish to do some deciding about how to play it as I am playing it.

I see Duane Shinn doing that sort of thing and I am wondering if you see that sort of thing at some point in this course.

I need it to be to some really full versions of jazz music and not simple tunes like Go Tell Aunt Rhody, etc ...


Do you see the later lessons presenting instruction of that nature ?

Also, I am wondering if each lesson is presented in video form as well as written material ?


Given what you have said here, I would recommend taking a look at Willie Myette's courses. He has shorter courses that focus on specific things. He will walk you step by step through tunes, doing exactly what you have said here that you want to learn. If you really have been playing piano 10 years, I would think you would be able to work with his courses without too much trouble.

I have pretty much wasted my time with piano so far, as I have discussed quite frankly and openly in this thread. However, when I was teaching myself to play guitar, I was focused and driven, and was playing professionally in fewer years than that. 10 years is a decent length of time to become at least very familiar with the instrument. Willie has many courses that would take anywhere from a week to maybe a month or two to get through IF you are already playing piano as you describe. You choose the song from among hi library of courses.

I have purchased several of these for use in the future. He also has a subscription if you wish to go that route instead. What I can say with certainty is that what you want to learn is his forte. Duane Shinn's course, from what I have seen of it so far (including looking ahead) would prepare you to be able to work with Willie Myette's materials. I doubt you would need that preparation.

Tony


Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535527
04/30/16 04:38 PM
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In response to both EP and Fizikisto...

I too am practicing in several 15-20 minute segments. I have done three so far today. During the week, I do 4 of these in the evening. I am aiming for 6 per day during the weekend. Currently, I am halfway through lesson 3. I MAY get through the lesson this weekend. If not, then I just continue with it into next week - as long as it takes to go beyond just "kinda sorta" being able to play the tunes.

David Sudnow talked in his course about how, when you are learning a tune, you are learning many skills that you may not be aware of at the time. That is why I am taking care instead of charging through it this time. Michelle McLaughlin says that on her web site where she talks about learning to play George Winston's music, album by album by ear off the recordings. she says that this is how she learned to play piano. It is in the process of learning and getting it right that we are learning to play.

The "layered" approach does make sense and I don't mean to argue against it. I can see revisiting a course of this magnitude several times rather than getting it all the first time through.

As for posting here, I will - but only when I am sure I will make my practice quota for that day. I just don't want to get derailed with all the "talk talk". I can tend to get lost in that if I am not careful. I don't get into social media because I don't want to get swallowed up in it. I see my wife's Facebook page, and people seem to want to tell the world every time they brush their teeth or something. I don't want to get that way about what I am doing on the piano.

Tony


Last edited by TonyB; 04/30/16 04:40 PM.
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535529
04/30/16 04:40 PM
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$997? isn't somebody gonna mention the astronomical price of this course? When I first started to learn to play the piano I did look at this course but the cost put me off. 

I have purchased some Duane Shin courses. But I have not started any of them yet, you can see which ones by looking at this dedicated page on my website. www.cmajornine.webspace.virginmedia.com/page13.html


If anyone has any Duane Shinn courses you would like to sell at a bargin price get in touch. Looking for "Pro Secrets" ,"52 week", or any " Hymn or Gospel" courses. So come on all you procrastinators get in touch


Sent from Samsung tablet

Last edited by cmajornine; 04/30/16 04:42 PM.

I am learning to play the piano. My main influences are Gospel, R&B and Jazz piano
Visit http://cmajorninekeyz.info/index.html

Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535541
04/30/16 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by TonyB
Originally Posted by dmd
Hi Tony and Fiz,

I am considering purchasing this course.

You may be able to help me decide.

I have been playing for about 10 years and can play simple classical pieces by rote and for about 3 years I have been working on jazz standards. I wish to pick up a jazz fakebook and work up an arrangement (my arrangement) in a short period (less than a week) that will sound like I know what I am doing. I also wish to not play it exactly the same everytime I play it. I wish to do some deciding about how to play it as I am playing it.

I see Duane Shinn doing that sort of thing and I am wondering if you see that sort of thing at some point in this course.

I need it to be to some really full versions of jazz music and not simple tunes like Go Tell Aunt Rhody, etc ...


Do you see the later lessons presenting instruction of that nature ?

Also, I am wondering if each lesson is presented in video form as well as written material ?


Given what you have said here, I would recommend taking a look at Willie Myette's courses. He has shorter courses that focus on specific things. He will walk you step by step through tunes, doing exactly what you have said here that you want to learn. If you really have been playing piano 10 years, I would think you would be able to work with his courses without too much trouble.

I have pretty much wasted my time with piano so far, as I have discussed quite frankly and openly in this thread. However, when I was teaching myself to play guitar, I was focused and driven, and was playing professionally in fewer years than that. 10 years is a decent length of time to become at least very familiar with the instrument. Willie has many courses that would take anywhere from a week to maybe a month or two to get through IF you are already playing piano as you describe. You choose the song from among hi library of courses.

I have purchased several of these for use in the future. He also has a subscription if you wish to go that route instead. What I can say with certainty is that what you want to learn is his forte. Duane Shinn's course, from what I have seen of it so far (including looking ahead) would prepare you to be able to work with Willie Myette's materials. I doubt you would need that preparation.

Tony



Yes, Willie's site is all about what I am trying to learn.

However, the material never seems generic enough for me. I want generic techniques with which I can build my own arrangements instead of simply "memorizing" his arrangements.

I am finished with memorizing someone else's arrangement. That is just not attractive to me anymore. A memorized piece only is applicable to that particular piece of music and there seems to be little carryover to another piece of music. Oh, I am sure there is some but I just do not want to spend all that time perfectly some fancy way of playing something when I could build a simpler but very nice arrangement in an hour of my time using generic techniques.

I know Duane Shinn's course teaches generic methods but since it does not utilize the jazz genre I may get bored with the music and stop doing it. I know that can happen.

I pick up one of Willie's courses from time to time and I never really finish it because it either gets too hard or I lose interest in it.

I am at a point now where what I do from time to time is pick a piece out of a jazz fakebook and just play a single note melody line with the right hand and the bass note in the left hand and run through it with "feeling". Then perhaps do the root and fifth with left hand with melody and cord tone in right hand and build that up to an arrangement. That is the sort of process I wish to pursue now ... not doing exactly what someone else tells me to do. I need some help with that sort of process of building an arrangement.

I Duane Shinn's course did that I would give him the $997 in a heartbeat.

But, alas, there seems to be nothing like that anywhere.



Don

Current: ES8, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD598 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535546
04/30/16 05:37 PM
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cmajornine,
I think I did actually mention the cost earlier, but maybe that was in another thread (too lazy to look back). Expensive is a relative thing. The course is modeled on the idea of 52 weekly lessons on DVD. That's less than $20/lesson. It's the exact same material that Duane used to teach to his private, in person, students. Private piano lessons can easily cost $50-100/hour. So probably for a year of lessons you're looking at $3000/more. And the lessons on the crash course are very dense. There's easily enough material for 2 or 3 years of lessons if you really delve deep into the content.

So if you're comparing it to buying the Alfred's Method books for $30-40 then yes it must seem crazy expensive. If, on the other hand you're comparing it to private lessons (which the course is modeled on), then it's quite inexpensive in comparison. Plus, if you work through the crash course you'll learn far far more than you would learn with something like the Alfred's method.

Now for some people, the price is going to be a disqualifying factor. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. The course is not for everyone. If someone wanted to focus on classical music exclusively, or like dmd, focus on jazz exclusively then probably it's not the best course for them.

But, for those who just really want to build a solid and diverse foundation in playing piano, for those who want to learn arranging and improvising as well as playing from the written score, for those who want to learn to read traditional music notation as well as lead sheets, there's really not anything comparable in the market. Duane is able to charge that high price (and presumably sell a good number of courses) because what he has to offer is valuable to those who want to learn it.

Warm Regards


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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535555
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dmd,
Duane does have some smaller courses on arranging techniques, runs and fillers (including a large section of jazz related runs/fillers), etc... Some of those smaller courses might be much more in line with what you want, or at least give you a better piece of it.

http://www.playpiano.com/musical-courses/block-chord-styles.htm

http://www.playpianocatalog.com/piano-runs--fills-galore.html

http://www.playpianocatalog.com/karhowtodoit.html

etc...might be of use to you.


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Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: fizikisto] #2535558
04/30/16 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by fizikisto
dmd,
Duane does have some smaller courses on arranging techniques, runs and fillers (including a large section of jazz related runs/fillers), etc... Some of those smaller courses might be much more in line with what you want, or at least give you a better piece of it.

http://www.playpiano.com/musical-courses/block-chord-styles.htm

http://www.playpianocatalog.com/piano-runs--fills-galore.html

http://www.playpianocatalog.com/karhowtodoit.html

etc...might be of use to you.


I have a few of his courses and I think I am going to take another run at ... How To Dress Up Naked Music.

That course has some good material and I may be ready for it now.

Thanks to this thread I now have the necessary motivation to pick it up again.

Thanks


Don

Current: ES8, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD598 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: dmd] #2535562
04/30/16 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by TonyB
Originally Posted by dmd
Hi Tony and Fiz,

I am considering purchasing this course.

You may be able to help me decide.

I have been playing for about 10 years and can play simple classical pieces by rote and for about 3 years I have been working on jazz standards. I wish to pick up a jazz fakebook and work up an arrangement (my arrangement) in a short period (less than a week) that will sound like I know what I am doing. I also wish to not play it exactly the same everytime I play it. I wish to do some deciding about how to play it as I am playing it.

I see Duane Shinn doing that sort of thing and I am wondering if you see that sort of thing at some point in this course.

I need it to be to some really full versions of jazz music and not simple tunes like Go Tell Aunt Rhody, etc ...


Do you see the later lessons presenting instruction of that nature ?

Also, I am wondering if each lesson is presented in video form as well as written material ?


Given what you have said here, I would recommend taking a look at Willie Myette's courses. He has shorter courses that focus on specific things. He will walk you step by step through tunes, doing exactly what you have said here that you want to learn. If you really have been playing piano 10 years, I would think you would be able to work with his courses without too much trouble.

I have pretty much wasted my time with piano so far, as I have discussed quite frankly and openly in this thread. However, when I was teaching myself to play guitar, I was focused and driven, and was playing professionally in fewer years than that. 10 years is a decent length of time to become at least very familiar with the instrument. Willie has many courses that would take anywhere from a week to maybe a month or two to get through IF you are already playing piano as you describe. You choose the song from among hi library of courses.

I have purchased several of these for use in the future. He also has a subscription if you wish to go that route instead. What I can say with certainty is that what you want to learn is his forte. Duane Shinn's course, from what I have seen of it so far (including looking ahead) would prepare you to be able to work with Willie Myette's materials. I doubt you would need that preparation.

Tony



Yes, Willie's site is all about what I am trying to learn.

However, the material never seems generic enough for me. I want generic techniques with which I can build my own arrangements instead of simply "memorizing" his arrangements.

I am finished with memorizing someone else's arrangement. That is just not attractive to me anymore. A memorized piece only is applicable to that particular piece of music and there seems to be little carryover to another piece of music. Oh, I am sure there is some but I just do not want to spend all that time perfectly some fancy way of playing something when I could build a simpler but very nice arrangement in an hour of my time using generic techniques.

I know Duane Shinn's course teaches generic methods but since it does not utilize the jazz genre I may get bored with the music and stop doing it. I know that can happen.

I pick up one of Willie's courses from time to time and I never really finish it because it either gets too hard or I lose interest in it.

I am at a point now where what I do from time to time is pick a piece out of a jazz fakebook and just play a single note melody line with the right hand and the bass note in the left hand and run through it with "feeling". Then perhaps do the root and fifth with left hand with melody and cord tone in right hand and build that up to an arrangement. That is the sort of process I wish to pursue now ... not doing exactly what someone else tells me to do. I need some help with that sort of process of building an arrangement.

I Duane Shinn's course did that I would give him the $997 in a heartbeat.

But, alas, there seems to be nothing like that anywhere.



You probably have not looked at all of Willie's catalog. He has courses in which he teaches you how to do this arranging, and in the courses that he teaches specific songs, he is teaching you how to arrange any tune in that genre.

Another possibility is the Sudnow method, which has been discussed in the forums.

Tony


Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: dmd] #2535568
04/30/16 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by fizikisto
dmd,
Duane does have some smaller courses on arranging techniques, runs and fillers (including a large section of jazz related runs/fillers), etc... Some of those smaller courses might be much more in line with what you want, or at least give you a better piece of it.

http://www.playpiano.com/musical-courses/block-chord-styles.htm

http://www.playpianocatalog.com/piano-runs--fills-galore.html

http://www.playpianocatalog.com/karhowtodoit.html

etc...might be of use to you.


I have a few of his courses and I think I am going to take another run at ... How To Dress Up Naked Music.

That course has some good material and I may be ready for it now.

Thanks to this thread I now have the necessary motivation to pick it up again.

Thanks


Now that is enough to convince me to continue posting here as I progress. Whatever course you choose, I hope you do coninue in this thread.

As a relative beginner on piano (the perpetual beginner syndrome...), the choice for me was easy. Duane Shinn's 52 week course starts at the beginning and assumes nothing in terms of prior experience.

However, for you with 10 years in, the decision might be a bit more difficult. Any course that does not start at the very beginning, can pretty much start anywhere and it is up to you to determine if that starting point is where you are. Unfortunately, I don't know how one would do that without buying the course first.

I also have the "How To Dress U Naked Music". That course pretty much assumes you have been playing a while and it really is showing you various licks and runs and how/where to use them. The assumption is that you can play well enough to handle those runs and licks, and that you are already playing songs to begin with. You might be there and ready to go. I certainly am not...yet. smile

I bought these other Shinn courses knowing that I needed to get through the 52 week course first, so there really are no surprises for me when I look through where these other courses start.

Tony


Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535570
04/30/16 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by TonyB
Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by TonyB
Originally Posted by dmd
Hi Tony and Fiz,

I am considering purchasing this course.

You may be able to help me decide.

I have been playing for about 10 years and can play simple classical pieces by rote and for about 3 years I have been working on jazz standards. I wish to pick up a jazz fakebook and work up an arrangement (my arrangement) in a short period (less than a week) that will sound like I know what I am doing. I also wish to not play it exactly the same everytime I play it. I wish to do some deciding about how to play it as I am playing it.

I see Duane Shinn doing that sort of thing and I am wondering if you see that sort of thing at some point in this course.

I need it to be to some really full versions of jazz music and not simple tunes like Go Tell Aunt Rhody, etc ...


Do you see the later lessons presenting instruction of that nature ?

Also, I am wondering if each lesson is presented in video form as well as written material ?


Given what you have said here, I would recommend taking a look at Willie Myette's courses. He has shorter courses that focus on specific things. He will walk you step by step through tunes, doing exactly what you have said here that you want to learn. If you really have been playing piano 10 years, I would think you would be able to work with his courses without too much trouble.

I have pretty much wasted my time with piano so far, as I have discussed quite frankly and openly in this thread. However, when I was teaching myself to play guitar, I was focused and driven, and was playing professionally in fewer years than that. 10 years is a decent length of time to become at least very familiar with the instrument. Willie has many courses that would take anywhere from a week to maybe a month or two to get through IF you are already playing piano as you describe. You choose the song from among hi library of courses.

I have purchased several of these for use in the future. He also has a subscription if you wish to go that route instead. What I can say with certainty is that what you want to learn is his forte. Duane Shinn's course, from what I have seen of it so far (including looking ahead) would prepare you to be able to work with Willie Myette's materials. I doubt you would need that preparation.

Tony



Yes, Willie's site is all about what I am trying to learn.

However, the material never seems generic enough for me. I want generic techniques with which I can build my own arrangements instead of simply "memorizing" his arrangements.

I am finished with memorizing someone else's arrangement. That is just not attractive to me anymore. A memorized piece only is applicable to that particular piece of music and there seems to be little carryover to another piece of music. Oh, I am sure there is some but I just do not want to spend all that time perfectly some fancy way of playing something when I could build a simpler but very nice arrangement in an hour of my time using generic techniques.

I know Duane Shinn's course teaches generic methods but since it does not utilize the jazz genre I may get bored with the music and stop doing it. I know that can happen.

I pick up one of Willie's courses from time to time and I never really finish it because it either gets too hard or I lose interest in it.

I am at a point now where what I do from time to time is pick a piece out of a jazz fakebook and just play a single note melody line with the right hand and the bass note in the left hand and run through it with "feeling". Then perhaps do the root and fifth with left hand with melody and cord tone in right hand and build that up to an arrangement. That is the sort of process I wish to pursue now ... not doing exactly what someone else tells me to do. I need some help with that sort of process of building an arrangement.

I Duane Shinn's course did that I would give him the $997 in a heartbeat.

But, alas, there seems to be nothing like that anywhere.



You probably have not looked at all of Willie's catalog. He has courses in which he teaches you how to do this arranging, and in the courses that he teaches specific songs, he is teaching you how to arrange any tune in that genre.

Another possibility is the Sudnow method, which has been discussed in the forums.

Tony



Yep ... many options. I have tried most of them.

I was a Sudnow member a few years back. That works somewhat, also.

I just remembered I was a member of Duanes "Inner Circle" a few years ago and I tried logging back onto it and I got in so I may take another run at that.

Lots of options ... LOL .... it just goes on and on ...

Thanks


Don

Current: ES8, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD598 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535579
04/30/16 07:34 PM
04/30/16 07:34 PM
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Posts: 1,639
Hernando, MS
F
fizikisto Offline
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fizikisto  Offline
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F
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,639
Hernando, MS
dmd,
I thought about possibly joining the inner circle thing when I finish the crash course. From the promotional material I gather that each month he picks one song and arranges it a bunch of different ways. I saw that America The Beautiful is (probably?) one of the songs and that there are 12 songs total?. Could you share what other songs he picks to arrange in the membership?


Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: fizikisto] #2535587
04/30/16 08:01 PM
04/30/16 08:01 PM
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Pennsylvania
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dmd Offline
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Pennsylvania
Originally Posted by fizikisto
dmd,
I thought about possibly joining the inner circle thing when I finish the crash course. From the promotional material I gather that each month he picks one song and arranges it a bunch of different ways. I saw that America The Beautiful is (probably?) one of the songs and that there are 12 songs total?. Could you share what other songs he picks to arrange in the membership?


America the Beautiful
Battle Hymn of the Republic
Londonderry Air (Danny Boy)
Greensleeves
The Star Spangled Banner
Whispering Hope
Auld Lang Syne
Swing Low Sweet Chariot
Aura Lee
Blue Bells of Scotland
Silent Night
Amazing Grace

There you have it.
I really do not remember much about this course but I do know that I did not end up getting much accomplished.
However, I am more ready for it now and I think I will give it another try.
I just does stuff and talks to you about it as he does it.
If you work through it you will gain a lot from it.
But ... it is not EASY ... make no mistake about that.









Don

Current: ES8, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD598 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: TonyB] #2535588
04/30/16 08:07 PM
04/30/16 08:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,639
Hernando, MS
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fizikisto Offline
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dmd
Thank you so much! I appreciate it smile


Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800
Re: Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course [Re: dmd] #2535611
04/30/16 09:35 PM
04/30/16 09:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,331
Twin Cities
T
TonyB Offline OP
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TonyB  Offline OP
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Twin Cities
Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by TonyB
Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by TonyB
Originally Posted by dmd
Hi Tony and Fiz,

I am considering purchasing this course.

You may be able to help me decide.

I have been playing for about 10 years and can play simple classical pieces by rote and for about 3 years I have been working on jazz standards. I wish to pick up a jazz fakebook and work up an arrangement (my arrangement) in a short period (less than a week) that will sound like I know what I am doing. I also wish to not play it exactly the same everytime I play it. I wish to do some deciding about how to play it as I am playing it.

I see Duane Shinn doing that sort of thing and I am wondering if you see that sort of thing at some point in this course.

I need it to be to some really full versions of jazz music and not simple tunes like Go Tell Aunt Rhody, etc ...


Do you see the later lessons presenting instruction of that nature ?

Also, I am wondering if each lesson is presented in video form as well as written material ?


Given what you have said here, I would recommend taking a look at Willie Myette's courses. He has shorter courses that focus on specific things. He will walk you step by step through tunes, doing exactly what you have said here that you want to learn. If you really have been playing piano 10 years, I would think you would be able to work with his courses without too much trouble.

I have pretty much wasted my time with piano so far, as I have discussed quite frankly and openly in this thread. However, when I was teaching myself to play guitar, I was focused and driven, and was playing professionally in fewer years than that. 10 years is a decent length of time to become at least very familiar with the instrument. Willie has many courses that would take anywhere from a week to maybe a month or two to get through IF you are already playing piano as you describe. You choose the song from among hi library of courses.

I have purchased several of these for use in the future. He also has a subscription if you wish to go that route instead. What I can say with certainty is that what you want to learn is his forte. Duane Shinn's course, from what I have seen of it so far (including looking ahead) would prepare you to be able to work with Willie Myette's materials. I doubt you would need that preparation.

Tony



Yes, Willie's site is all about what I am trying to learn.

However, the material never seems generic enough for me. I want generic techniques with which I can build my own arrangements instead of simply "memorizing" his arrangements.

I am finished with memorizing someone else's arrangement. That is just not attractive to me anymore. A memorized piece only is applicable to that particular piece of music and there seems to be little carryover to another piece of music. Oh, I am sure there is some but I just do not want to spend all that time perfectly some fancy way of playing something when I could build a simpler but very nice arrangement in an hour of my time using generic techniques.

I know Duane Shinn's course teaches generic methods but since it does not utilize the jazz genre I may get bored with the music and stop doing it. I know that can happen.

I pick up one of Willie's courses from time to time and I never really finish it because it either gets too hard or I lose interest in it.

I am at a point now where what I do from time to time is pick a piece out of a jazz fakebook and just play a single note melody line with the right hand and the bass note in the left hand and run through it with "feeling". Then perhaps do the root and fifth with left hand with melody and cord tone in right hand and build that up to an arrangement. That is the sort of process I wish to pursue now ... not doing exactly what someone else tells me to do. I need some help with that sort of process of building an arrangement.

I Duane Shinn's course did that I would give him the $997 in a heartbeat.

But, alas, there seems to be nothing like that anywhere.



You probably have not looked at all of Willie's catalog. He has courses in which he teaches you how to do this arranging, and in the courses that he teaches specific songs, he is teaching you how to arrange any tune in that genre.

Another possibility is the Sudnow method, which has been discussed in the forums.

Tony



Yep ... many options. I have tried most of them.

I was a Sudnow member a few years back. That works somewhat, also.

I just remembered I was a member of Duanes "Inner Circle" a few years ago and I tried logging back onto it and I got in so I may take another run at that.

Lots of options ... LOL .... it just goes on and on ...

Thanks


Wow! What is his "Inner Circle" like? I remember getting emails from him about that, but figured that I should wait until I finished the 52 week course. It sounded like a really good program though.

Edit: Reading on through the rest of the thread so far, you guys do a pretty good job of answering my question.

Tony



Last edited by TonyB; 04/30/16 09:37 PM.
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