Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
102 registered members (AAC127, AnthonyPaulO, Beardog, ando, AZNpiano, 36251, Bourniplus, 27 invisible), 1,056 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Ravel - Toccata Fingering Help #1834320
01/29/12 04:42 PM
01/29/12 04:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 159
Canada
R
Richter Offline OP
Full Member
Richter  Offline OP
Full Member
R

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 159
Canada
Hi guys,

I've tried everything I can think of for these 4 measures of the Toccata in Le Tombeau de Couperin, but I can't, for the life of me, figure out a fingering that makes this comfortable, and possible to play at tempo!

I'm talking about measures 5-8. Right now, I'm redistributing some of those inner notes between the RH and LH, but it sounds terrible and it's still pretty hard to play. It's on Page 24 of this score.

Tombeau de Couperin

All suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks smile

Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items
Re: Ravel - Toccata Fingering Help [Re: Richter] #1834361
01/29/12 05:43 PM
01/29/12 05:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,833
Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Orange Soda King  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,833
Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
It's ridiculously difficult to do. It really stretches the webbing of your fingers. Keep practicing it slowly, and if you are a praying person, pray before you perform it. That is the only advice I can give on that section...

Re: Ravel - Toccata Fingering Help [Re: Richter] #1834527
01/29/12 10:09 PM
01/29/12 10:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 159
Canada
R
Richter Offline OP
Full Member
Richter  Offline OP
Full Member
R

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 159
Canada
Haha thanks! I'll be praying...

So you used 2345 on the em9 and f#m7 with the thumb on the E? Little bit ridiculous cause my hands aren't really that big! I can't even voice it this way... But it's possible?

Re: Ravel - Toccata Fingering Help [Re: Richter] #1834551
01/29/12 10:48 PM
01/29/12 10:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,833
Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Orange Soda King  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,833
Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Mine aren't that large either, but that is exactly how I did it. Keep slow practicing. One thing that will help during your slow practice is that as soon as you play the E right before the chords with 2345, quickly relax the thumb and let it collect toward your hand. Keep your thumb rid of excess tension, because when your thumb tenses, the whole hand and wrist tense up, too.

Re: Ravel - Toccata Fingering Help [Re: Richter] #1834628
01/30/12 12:43 AM
01/30/12 12:43 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,063
W
wr Offline
9000 Post Club Member
wr  Offline
9000 Post Club Member
W

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,063
I'm glad other people have real difficulty with those measures; I kind of wondered if it was just me. I thought they were not playable as written for a long time, and, like you, worked out some redistribution that helped. But somehow, something has changed and they are more playable now, probably because of a combination of working on Dohnanyi exercises and learning more about relaxing the hand in tough spots, as OSK suggests.

Re: Ravel - Toccata Fingering Help [Re: Richter] #1834672
01/30/12 01:54 AM
01/30/12 01:54 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,654
San Jose, CA
J
jeffreyjones Offline
2000 Post Club Member
jeffreyjones  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,654
San Jose, CA
The only way I could do it is by turning my middle finger straight up and playing on the nail.

Re: Ravel - Toccata Fingering Help [Re: Richter] #1834769
01/30/12 06:30 AM
01/30/12 06:30 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 159
Canada
R
Richter Offline OP
Full Member
Richter  Offline OP
Full Member
R

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 159
Canada
I'm pretty sure the coda is piece of cake compared to these four measures haha!

Looks like I'll have to tough it out - wish me luck! Hopefully my webbing stretches a bit...

Re: Ravel - Toccata Fingering Help [Re: Richter] #1834777
01/30/12 07:05 AM
01/30/12 07:05 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,635
Hobart, Australia
A
ando Online content
5000 Post Club Member
ando  Online Content
5000 Post Club Member
A

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,635
Hobart, Australia
Yes I think the way OSK said is the only way to do it and get the right accents on the notes. I think redistribution ruins the effect and it leaves the last E in the bar hanging with no good option. I'm lucky that my hands can do those stretches with no problems. There are moments in Ravel's pieces where it is a challenge though - even for large hands.

Re: Ravel - Toccata Fingering Help [Re: Richter] #2533660
04/25/16 01:16 AM
04/25/16 01:16 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3
G
goodear Offline
Junior Member
goodear  Offline
Junior Member
G

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3
It is absolutely do-able using 2345. Start by practicing it slowly. 3 is not in the usual position.

Re: Ravel - Toccata Fingering Help [Re: Richter] #2533723
04/25/16 08:27 AM
04/25/16 08:27 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,382
western MA, USA
H
hreichgott Offline
3000 Post Club Member
hreichgott  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
H

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,382
western MA, USA
I use 2345 too, after trying all the other options I could possibly think of and not finding a good one!
I find I have to pay attention to exactly where each fingertip is on the key.
Em9 - fingers 2 and 3 are right next to each other by the corner of the F#, finger 4 almost at the corner of the A#, finger 5 only barely on the D
F#m7 - everything moves farther forward toward the fallboard, fingers 2 and 4 play about a third of the way up the black keys, 5 plays the E right next to the D#.
It feels like a rubber band opening for the F#m7 (out and forward) and closing for the Em9 (in and backward).

It can only go fast if I work on it not just thinking about which finger on which note, but imagining a little dot on the key exactly where I want that fingertip to land.


Heather W. Reichgott, piano http://heatherwreichgott.blogspot.com

Working on:
Cabaret (whole show)
12+ variations from classical ballets
Verdi: Stabat Mater
Copland: Appalachian Spring
Tangos and other fun music for piano duo

I love Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and new music
Re: Ravel - Toccata Fingering Help [Re: Richter] #2534014
04/26/16 01:13 AM
04/26/16 01:13 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,833
Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Orange Soda King  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,833
Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Zombie thread alert!!

I've been tempted to relearn Le Tombeau (I butchered the whole suite in high school, haha...)

Re: Ravel - Toccata Fingering Help [Re: Orange Soda King] #2534057
04/26/16 07:34 AM
04/26/16 07:34 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,756
New York City
pianoloverus Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,756
New York City
Originally Posted by Orange Soda King
I've been tempted to relearn Le Tombeau (I butchered the whole suite in high school, haha...)
Then may I suggest learning some music from Sweeney Todd, the demon barber of Fleet Street. The overture is beyond amazing. grin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8t4Ny39tt8


Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Shop Our Online Store!
Shop Our Store Online
Shop PianoSupplies.com

Did you know Piano World has an online store, and that it's loaded with goodies pianists and music lovers want?
Check it out and place your order.

Special Purchase!
Keyboard and Roses Piano Bench Cushion Keyboard & Roses 14"x30" piano bench cushions Regularly sold for $79 to $100, now only $39. (while supplies last)

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways
New Topics - Multiple Forums
CHECK OUT LOT 60
by martin snow. 03/20/19 07:28 PM
regrets
by dolce sfogato. 03/20/19 06:24 PM
Semi Concert Grand Blind Test
by Keith D Kerman. 03/20/19 05:57 PM
Kawai CA98
by Nordomus. 03/20/19 04:24 PM
How to master new skills with 'deliberate practice'
by thepianoplayer416. 03/20/19 02:30 PM
What's Hot!!
PIANO TEACHERS Please read this!
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics191,008
Posts2,808,699
Members92,831
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

Sweetwater

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2