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Re: ROLAND FP-30 [Re: login] #2532938
04/22/16 12:08 PM
04/22/16 12:08 PM
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Posts: 65
Ohio
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shalomjj Offline
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Have you tried out the FP30 Speakers?


"Make a joyful noise unto the Lord"

Roland FP30
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Re: ROLAND FP-30 [Re: Marko in Boston] #2532959
04/22/16 12:46 PM
04/22/16 12:46 PM
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Europe
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mcoll Offline
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C'mon guys, read the posts before posting something in response.

@shalomjj - he was talking about the Medeli piano given as an example by JoeT.

And your second question - it's not the subnote, it's the users signature. It is posted as an irony, because there's a ~50 pages long thread on this forum where countless users have asked countless times if the new HP and LX pianos are really modeled. And then some more users have started asking the same thing and questioning it. After having replied to that question many many times, that signature was posted as a jest I believe. But if you haven't been reading around here for a long time, there was no way of knowing.

@login - name one decent (i.e. from a serious manufacturer) digital piano close to that price that has balanced outputs. Could be that I'm not sufficiently informed, but I don't know any.

Re: ROLAND FP-30 [Re: Kawai James] #2532962
04/22/16 12:53 PM
04/22/16 12:53 PM
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Posts: 34
Berlin, Germany
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Pablo Woiz Offline
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It costed to me 1,5 Euro to build a "decent" line out in my Roland FP-30.....
I guess it´s just marketing...
Every professional musician expect a decent line out in a instrument. Maybe if they put one , they will sell less FP-50 ... (Just my opinion)
We also need a modell without speakers, we don´t need them really, and makes the piano some kilos heavier.
A lot of years ago I owned a technics P-30. For sure the sound and action were totally improved lasts years, but in design and features, that was exactely what a lot of us really needs.
We don´t need displays, recordings, accompaniament, etc....
Just a light instrument with good action, good piano sound, and proper line out.

Roland: We are waiting for the 88 notes version of RD-64. !!!!

Saludos!

Pablo



Pablo Woiz
Yamaha G2, Roland Fp-30 //before: Technics p-30, Casio Privia px-100, Yamaha MX-49, M.Audio Axiom-61, Yamaha CP-80, Roland f-20, Upright Zimmermann.
www.pablowoiz.com
Re: ROLAND FP-30 [Re: Marko in Boston] #2532968
04/22/16 01:04 PM
04/22/16 01:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
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France
Frédéric L Online content
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Frédéric L  Online Content
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The only digital pianos with balanced outputs I know are stage pianos like the Yamaha CP4, CP1 or CP300, or Kawai MP11... they are not in the price range of the FP-30. Even some stage piano (Yamaha CP40, Kawai MP7, Nord Piano) seem to have only unbalanced outputs.


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
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Re: ROLAND FP-30 [Re: CyberGene] #2532970
04/22/16 01:17 PM
04/22/16 01:17 PM
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Posts: 1,111
Europe
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JoeT Offline
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
It's about money but not about saving money for a connector wink If you have FP-30 with what is supposed to be very good keyboard, easy MIDI over bluetooth and then audio IN, many people would actually buy it to use it as a controller with external software and thus Roland won't be able to sell their higher end stage pianos, synths, etc. And I don't blame them.

Nobody is going to use a FP-30 as controller with no controller features in the firmware. That was my whole point. Nobody is going to put a flimsy plastic keyboard with an external power brick on stage, which has no zones, no layers, no registrations nor anything.

A display for changing basic settings isn't going to change that, neither is LINE IN/OUT. In fact people with a full studio setup don't even need this, watch the demonstration videos how they get along.

It's only the simple home user who gets into trouble when trying to connect additional speakers, play along something or change a setting.

Last edited by JoeT; 04/22/16 04:45 PM.

Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7605
Re: ROLAND FP-30 [Re: Marko in Boston] #2532978
04/22/16 01:49 PM
04/22/16 01:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 65
Ohio
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shalomjj Offline
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Ohio
How would you compare the FP30 to say the FP4 or FP4F? I have the Roland FP4 and didn't get the FP4F and hear it has the sluggish Ivory G. So, this seems like a great piano with the PHA4, escapement, and supernatural sounds. I am hearing mixed opinions though. Will be glad to hear some reviews from those who own it.


"Make a joyful noise unto the Lord"

Roland FP30
Re: ROLAND FP-30 [Re: Frédéric L] #2532984
04/22/16 02:08 PM
04/22/16 02:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 381
Rille Stark Offline
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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
The only digital pianos with balanced outputs...


You don't need balanced outputs. Headphone jacks or outputs, the appropriate cable as short as possible and one or two DI-boxes.

This is not the cheapest model, but one of these is sufficent for example: http://www.radialeng.com/prod2.php


Peace

Re: ROLAND FP-30 [Re: Rille Stark] #2532989
04/22/16 02:25 PM
04/22/16 02:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,828
France
Frédéric L Online content
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Frédéric L  Online Content
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Originally Posted by Rille Stark
You don't need balanced outputs.

I don't need them (just using a 3m output cable). I was just replying to login (now Balanced audio outputs is something it is really missing because...)


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: ROLAND FP-30 [Re: Marko in Boston] #2532992
04/22/16 02:34 PM
04/22/16 02:34 PM
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Posts: 381
Rille Stark Offline
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Ok! smile


Peace

Re: ROLAND FP-30 [Re: Marko in Boston] #2533004
04/22/16 03:13 PM
04/22/16 03:13 PM
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Posts: 65
Ohio
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shalomjj Offline
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Ohio
What does the DI box do? I'm assuming it amplifies or clears up the signal?


"Make a joyful noise unto the Lord"

Roland FP30
Re: ROLAND FP-30 [Re: Marko in Boston] #2533006
04/22/16 03:29 PM
04/22/16 03:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 381
Rille Stark Offline
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It's to connect the piano to the PA system with an microphone cable. This allows for long cable runs. The signal is phase shifted in two wires 180 degrees appart and then merged at the mixingtable and in the process most of the interference is eliminated, if i remeber correctly. smile

Often the box also contains a PAD switch to reduce the level of the signal and a ground lift switch to combat ground loops.

There are two types, passive and activ. For digital pianos the passive type is appropriate.


Peace

Last edited by Rille Stark; 04/22/16 03:34 PM.
Re: ROLAND FP-30 [Re: Marko in Boston] #2533014
04/22/16 03:50 PM
04/22/16 03:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,828
France
Frédéric L Online content
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France
I don't think "clearing up" the signal is the right expression.

I would say it adapts the signal. But it is true that when ground lifting the signal, the balanced output of the DI is less likely suject to interferences.

See : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DI_unit

Oups, I have not seen the Rille Stark's answer at the beginning of a new page.


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: ROLAND FP-30 [Re: shalomjj] #2533016
04/22/16 03:53 PM
04/22/16 03:53 PM
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Posts: 297
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Tim P Online blank
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Originally Posted by shalomjj
What does the DI box do? I'm assuming it amplifies or clears up the signal?


It typically converts high impedance, unbalanced signals to low impedance, balanced signals. Basically it allows a low level signal, like that used from a guitar or bass cable (or the unbalanced line out of a DP/keyboard) to plug into mic inputs on a recording or live sound console. It also allows longer cable runs as balanced cables better reject interference and have less signal degradation over considerable distances.

From what I remember. It's been a while since my audio engineering days.

Re: ROLAND FP-30 [Re: Marko in Boston] #2533026
04/22/16 04:12 PM
04/22/16 04:12 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,684
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
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shalomjj,

I answer a few of your questions in the review I wrote for the Piano Buyer, which was published about a month ago. (link is on the left side of the screen)


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: ROLAND FP-30 [Re: Pablo Woiz] #2533034
04/22/16 04:35 PM
04/22/16 04:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,217
Vancouver, BC
JayGVan Offline
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JayGVan  Offline
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Vancouver, BC
Originally Posted by Pablo Woiz

We also need a modell without speakers, we don´t need them really, and makes the piano some kilos heavier.

Roland: We are waiting for the 88 notes version of RD-64. !!!!


Right now, we still sell some leftover RD-300NX, plus we have the FA-08 and Juno-DS88...(The FA-08 and Juno both share the same action as the RD-300NX)

You're spoiled for choice.

Jay


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
Re: ROLAND FP-30 [Re: terminaldegree] #2533050
04/22/16 05:10 PM
04/22/16 05:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 65
Ohio
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shalomjj Offline
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Ohio
Good article! Would you say the FP30 action is one of the better Roland actions? How would it compare to the G Ivory on the FP4F?


"Make a joyful noise unto the Lord"

Roland FP30
Re: ROLAND FP-30 [Re: Marko in Boston] #2533069
04/22/16 06:19 PM
04/22/16 06:19 PM
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Ohio
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shalomjj Offline
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Ohio
This question is for Jay Roland. What is the difference between sampling and modeling on a Roland Piano?


"Make a joyful noise unto the Lord"

Roland FP30
Re: ROLAND FP-30 [Re: shalomjj] #2533074
04/22/16 06:30 PM
04/22/16 06:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,217
Vancouver, BC
JayGVan Offline
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Originally Posted by shalomjj
This question is for Jay Roland. What is the difference between sampling and modeling on a Roland Piano?


The way we do SuperNatural at Roland is in two ways:

One:

SuperNatural Piano Sampling:

We sample the attack portion of all 88 keys at 4 different levels. We incorporate the modelling to give those 4 levels a seamless transition to 128 dynamic levels. Also, the decay portion is completely modelled. This avoids unnatural looping of the decay portion of the sound that can sometimes happen with samples. Additionally all the resonances (String, Key off, Duplex Scale, Damper etc) are modelled as well. So you can see that the samples make up a very small portion of the overall sound.

Two: SuperNatural Piano Modelling.

There is no sampling involved in the sound creation process at all. Everything described above happens strictly through modelling.

Edit: SuperNatural Piano modelling required the development of a new processor called BMC (Behaviour Modelling Core) that forms the centrepiece of the new HP and LX series. My hope is that it makes its way to more and more pianos in the future, not to mention other Roland Products.

Jay

Last edited by Jay Roland; 04/22/16 06:34 PM.

Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
Re: ROLAND FP-30 [Re: Marko in Boston] #2533078
04/22/16 06:41 PM
04/22/16 06:41 PM
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Posts: 65
Ohio
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shalomjj Offline
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Ohio
But shouldn't sampling be more accurate than modelling? It seems that the modelling is what you are creating and the sampling is actually what an instrument makes? I must be missing something on this. My main point of interest is comparing the FP30 to say and LX. Thanks!

Last edited by shalomjj; 04/22/16 06:43 PM.

"Make a joyful noise unto the Lord"

Roland FP30
Re: ROLAND FP-30 [Re: Marko in Boston] #2533089
04/22/16 07:00 PM
04/22/16 07:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,217
Vancouver, BC
JayGVan Offline
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JayGVan  Offline
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It depends.

A sample set is only as good as the recording and sound design work done to it.

A physical model is only as good as the math used to create it and the processor that runs that math.

A sample is a snapshot in time. It can recreate the sound of a piano. Many samples can be created based on recordings of different pianos.

A model can live and change, depending on the input. It can not only create the sound of many acoustic pianos but behave like them as well. Therein lies the main modelling advantage. The human to piano connection is very realistic.

Both can create an end result that is pleasing to some, and grating to others. It is all very subjective. Just like individual piano actions. Some love them, some hate them. 10 players will give 10 different opinions. Such is the nature of the beast.

Jay


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
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