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Kawai ES8 vs Roland RD-800 #2526914
04/01/16 07:26 PM
04/01/16 07:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 14
Europe
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inray Offline OP
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I've tried both keyboards and love their actions and sound, especially the AP and AP/string layers that interests me more.

Regardless of price difference, which one would you choose for use primarily in home and small live gigs and why? BTW midi control features, or onboard speakers do not concern me.

Other candidates were the Kurzweil Forte SE but I hate Fatar actions, and CASIO PX-560 which I can not stand the cheap plastic build and looks!

Thank you all in advance for your opinions and suggestions! smile

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Re: Kawai ES8 vs Roland RD-800 [Re: inray] #2526918
04/01/16 07:54 PM
04/01/16 07:54 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 206
Bangkok, Thailand
siros Offline
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If you don't need onboard speakers, would Kawai MP7 be a better choice than ES8?

Re: Kawai ES8 vs Roland RD-800 [Re: siros] #2526921
04/01/16 08:02 PM
04/01/16 08:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
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Boynton Beach, FL
Morodiene Offline
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Originally Posted by siros
If you don't need onboard speakers, would Kawai MP7 be a better choice than ES8?


+1. The ES8 and the MP7 are both great, so you may want to compare the two.


private piano/voice teacher FT

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Re: Kawai ES8 vs Roland RD-800 [Re: inray] #2526922
04/01/16 08:04 PM
04/01/16 08:04 PM
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inray Offline OP
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That's exactly what I was thinking before try ES8 great new SK piano samples and RHIII action!
I do love MP7 actually and I wish there was an updated MP7 with these features available today, but unfortunately there is not, yet!

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Re: Kawai ES8 vs Roland RD-800 [Re: inray] #2526924
04/01/16 08:27 PM
04/01/16 08:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,620
ElmerJFudd Offline
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The Forte SE has the TP-100 anyway, which I don't think you're going to dig. I know I don't. With only $500 difference between the SE and the Forte 7, I'd go for the Forte 7 in a heart beat which shares the TP-40L with the Forte 88. But the Forte 7/88 is a beast of a performance/workstation keyboard, to call it a stage piano.... LOL it's a stage piano and then some! The question is do you need it's feature set (which is extensive) and does your budget allow for $3495?

I've played the Kawai ES8 a few times now because it happens to be on the showroom floor of my local shop (amazingly). At $1999 with the RHIII action it plays and sounds great. It does not come close to the Forte in variety or sound possibilities or features. But if you're basically an acoustic piano/acoustic piano + strings kind of player. It's a great choice, although it is 49lbs. The internal speakers are nice to have at home (I would also enjoy the proper stand and pedals).

The Kawai MP7 has the RHII action. The ES8 has some new sample libraries made from two Shigeru Kawai pianos. At 47.4lbs it is not significantly lighter than the ES8. So if you like the idea of internal speakers, I'd go with the ES8 - again assuming you mainly need bread and butter sounds - acoustic piano, strings, maybe a split with bass and piano, electric pianos. things like that.

The reason you would want the Casio PX-560 is because you want the sounds of the PX-5S with internal speakers (and maybe you prefer blue over white). But the reason you would want the Casios over the above mentioned boards would be weight and the added bonus of the touch screen display. The PX-560 is 26.5 lbs. The PX-5S is 24lbs! If weight and a touch screen are not a factor in your decision making, I do not feel the sound of the Casio alone or feel of its action is on par with the other keyboards in this discussion. But feel is subjective. I like the Casio action - it's an excellent action for a lightweight keyboard - I'll leave it at that.

The Roland RD-800 is also a good choice. It has the PHA-4 action with escapement. You have to play this action to see if it is a factor in your decision making (as with all of them really) but if you COULD get it in the same shop as the ES8 that would be ideal. It has a rich palette of sounds and features. At $2499 it might also be a little more keyboard than you need with no internal speakers. Like most slab stage pianos with nice actions, it is 47lbs 14oz.

Hopefully this is useful to you.

Re: Kawai ES8 vs Roland RD-800 [Re: inray] #2526936
04/01/16 09:27 PM
04/01/16 09:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
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inray Offline OP
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inray  Offline OP
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Thanks for the information, ElmerJFudd.

Forte is a great board but i believe it would have been an expensive overkill, even if my budget allowed it! Also I have to admit that I do not like the TP/40L idea; definitely a much better action than the TP100 but still not my taste. TP/40wood is the only Fatar action I liked so far.
Kurz new German D Grand sample is exceptional though, even in its smaller form of 2GB (SE).

PHA-4 concert and RHII/III are imho the best plastic key actions! CASIO action is great though pretty noisy and I don't know how durable it will prove... smile

Personally I prefer stage piano form keyboards with real time controls and knobs instead "bread & butter" plain slabs like ES8, but it is the wonderful sound of Shigeru grand, the great RHIII action and the rigid metal build that make me consider it as an option.

Re: Kawai ES8 vs Roland RD-800 [Re: inray] #2526947
04/01/16 09:55 PM
04/01/16 09:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
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ElmerJFudd Offline
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Very good,, then you should be trying out the MP7, RD-800 and the ES8. Enjoy the journey!

Re: Kawai ES8 vs Roland RD-800 [Re: inray] #2526950
04/01/16 10:14 PM
04/01/16 10:14 PM
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Fer De Armas Offline
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Hi inray, if you are looking for a stage piano without speakers, IMHO, my first choice would be undoubtedly the Kawai MP7, because it has the best hollow plastic digital piano graded key action under $2500 price range; for a second choice, i would choose Roland RD800, it has the second best hollow plastic DP graded key action. But if you really need included speakers, look for the Kawai ES8; it has best graded plastic keys with counterweights available in a DP today. But at the end you must try for yourself and choose the best key action and sound for your taste. And as you can see, you canĀ“t wrong with any of these options... Cheers!.


Re: Kawai ES8 vs Roland RD-800 [Re: inray] #2526961
04/01/16 11:38 PM
04/01/16 11:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,640
Hernando, MS
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fizikisto Offline
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Hernando, MS
Inray,
Based on what you've written, you find the ES8 and RD800 equal in terms of sound/action and prefer them to the MP7. If those two are your choices, then there might be a few things worth considering:

In Favor of the RD800: There are very few boards on this planet as versatile (some, not many smile. It has hundreds of high quality sounds and lots of effects that can be controlled in real time. It has the full supernatural engine behind the acoustic and electric piano sounds as well as the tone wheel organ. Now if you never plan to use any of those sounds, then they aren't going to be much use to you. But if you like to explore the sonic soundscape of possibilities, there's no contest. The RD-800 lets you set up as many as 4 simultaneous voices in any combination of splits/layers that you want. So you could have an acoustic bass in your left hand and a combination of piano, synth pad, and strings in the right. The tweakability available to you with this board is off the charts. Since you mentioned gigging, it's really a board meant for gigging. XLR outputs, etc...

In Favor of the ES8:
You said the speakers didn't matter, but they're certainly nice to have. The ES8 is definitely more of a home oriented piano. If you play from sheet music, it has a music rest. That's not an option for the RD800. I had to buy a separate sheet music stand to use with my RD800, which is an inelegant kludge at best #StillAnnoyedByThat. The ES8 has a really cool feature where you can do an AB loop on a recorded song, so that if you're working a section of a song (working it by ear, practicing along with a recorded backing track, etc...) you can loop just the section of the song you're practicing.

There's not really a wrong choice here, both are fantastic boards.


Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800
Re: Kawai ES8 vs Roland RD-800 [Re: fizikisto] #2526978
04/02/16 02:11 AM
04/02/16 02:11 AM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 454
Bachus Offline
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Bachus  Offline
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Originally Posted by fizikisto
Inray,
Based on what you've written, you find the ES8 and RD800 equal in terms of sound/action and prefer them to the MP7. If those two are your choices, then there might be a few things worth considering:

In Favor of the RD800: There are very few boards on this planet as versatile (some, not many smile. It has hundreds of high quality sounds and lots of effects that can be controlled in real time. It has the full supernatural engine behind the acoustic and electric piano sounds as well as the tone wheel organ. Now if you never plan to use any of those sounds, then they aren't going to be much use to you. But if you like to explore the sonic soundscape of possibilities, there's no contest. The RD-800 lets you set up as many as 4 simultaneous voices in any combination of splits/layers that you want. So you could have an acoustic bass in your left hand and a combination of piano, synth pad, and strings in the right. The tweakability available to you with this board is off the charts. Since you mentioned gigging, it's really a board meant for gigging. XLR outputs, etc...

In Favor of the ES8:
You said the speakers didn't matter, but they're certainly nice to have. The ES8 is definitely more of a home oriented piano. If you play from sheet music, it has a music rest. That's not an option for the RD800. I had to buy a separate sheet music stand to use with my RD800, which is an inelegant kludge at best #StillAnnoyedByThat. The ES8 has a really cool feature where you can do an AB loop on a recorded song, so that if you're working a section of a song (working it by ear, practicing along with a recorded backing track, etc...) you can loop just the section of the song you're practicing.

There's not really a wrong choice here, both are fantastic boards.


I think you forgot to mention that the RD800 is also a beast when it comes to being a midi controller... perfect for on stage..

But if you want to compare the RD800 to a Kawai... the MP7 would be its direct competitor in functionallity.. I did a huge comparrison between the two once, and they come very close... With almost all the differences being prferences, and not better/worse...

Equall in almost all functionallity, tough i prefrred the interface of the ROland just a tad more, with Roland having the better sounds in general (opinion) and preferring the touch of the MP7 slightly (opinion)... Need to be said, i have allways been a fan of ROland sounds.


IF you want to compare the ES8 to a ROland, maybe the FP30 would be a better competitor...

Re: Kawai ES8 vs Roland RD-800 [Re: Bachus] #2527007
04/02/16 06:35 AM
04/02/16 06:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2016
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Europe
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inray Offline OP
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inray  Offline OP
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Europe
Originally Posted by Bachus
IF you want to compare the ES8 to a ROland, maybe the FP30 would be a better competitor...


FP30 has great price, nice AP sound and action though PHA4-Standard not "premium" or "concert", but awful ergonomics, non existed user interface, plastic build (yeah I hate cheapo plastics), no audio outs, and of course no Shigeru SK-EX, SK-5 samples two of the best acoustic piano samples currently available in a hardware board.

Still a great slab for the price but imho not quite the same league as ES8.


Re: Kawai ES8 vs Roland RD-800 [Re: inray] #2527016
04/02/16 07:10 AM
04/02/16 07:10 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
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Fer De Armas Offline
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Fer De Armas  Offline
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Hi inray, i agree with you, is not a fair match, cause the ES8 is an another league compared with the FP30; maybe the FP80 could be a best aproximation, nevertheless the ES8 is still ahead of FP80 in key action. But now, if Roland launch a new FP90 (FP80 sucessor) with the PHA-50 hybrid key action inside, surely it would be a best match for Kawai ES8 key action and a serious competition for Kawai in the DP with onboard speakers category. Cheers!.

Re: Kawai ES8 vs Roland RD-800 [Re: inray] #2527223
04/03/16 01:16 AM
04/03/16 01:16 AM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 454
Bachus Offline
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Bachus  Offline
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Originally Posted by inray
Originally Posted by Bachus
IF you want to compare the ES8 to a ROland, maybe the FP30 would be a better competitor...


FP30 has great price, nice AP sound and action though PHA4-Standard not "premium" or "concert", but awful ergonomics, non existed user interface, plastic build (yeah I hate cheapo plastics), no audio outs, and of course no Shigeru SK-EX, SK-5 samples two of the best acoustic piano samples currently available in a hardware board.

Still a great slab for the price but imho not quite the same league as ES8.

I played the FP30 next to an RD800, and the actions arent that much different... the FP30 action is quite okay...


However you are right, the FP30 should be compared to the ES100... same price same functionallity...


Which leaves the Es8 witouth much competition...in that price bracket for that kind of action, sound and functionallity... but back to the orriginal quyestion, i still would prefer the RD800 any day above the ES8, just because that comparisson isnt fair neither. different functionallity, different price bracket (overhere in europe)

Last edited by Bachus; 04/03/16 01:18 AM.
Re: Kawai ES8 vs Roland RD-800 [Re: inray] #2527256
04/03/16 05:14 AM
04/03/16 05:14 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,363
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Bachus, the FP-80 and P255 are the ES8's direct competitors.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai ES8 vs Roland RD-800 [Re: inray] #2530240
04/13/16 04:52 AM
04/13/16 04:52 AM
Joined: Mar 2016
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inray Offline OP
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UPDATE: Finally I opted for RD800 and got it yesterday morning!
All candidates are excellent keyboards (especially ES8), but it was Roland's great and reliable PHA4-concert action, piano sound (I love SN AP brightness) and all those realtime control knobs that made me decide to buy one!

Thank you all folks for the suggestions! smile


Roland RD-800 and others
Re: Kawai ES8 vs Roland RD-800 [Re: inray] #2530244
04/13/16 05:02 AM
04/13/16 05:02 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,640
Hernando, MS
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fizikisto Offline
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Hernando, MS
inray,
congratulations on your new piano! it's really a great board. You may find these quick start videos to be helpful! http://rolandblog.ca/get-roland-rd-800/
I hope your new board brings you many years of enjoyment.


Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800
Re: Kawai ES8 vs Roland RD-800 [Re: inray] #2530258
04/13/16 06:47 AM
04/13/16 06:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 14
Europe
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inray Offline OP
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Thanks for the info, fizikisto! smile


Roland RD-800 and others
Re: Kawai ES8 vs Roland RD-800 [Re: inray] #2530267
04/13/16 07:13 AM
04/13/16 07:13 AM
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Buckster Offline
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Enjoy smile

I'd love a Roland RD800 but bit of a price difference vs an ES8 and MP7 almost 60% more

Re: Kawai ES8 vs Roland RD-800 [Re: inray] #2530392
04/13/16 04:24 PM
04/13/16 04:24 PM
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Posts: 432
petes1 Offline
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Originally Posted by inray
UPDATE: Finally I opted for RD800 and got it yesterday morning!...


Congratulations and welcome to the club!!! If you're like me, your enjoyment of the board will just continue to grow. smile


Keys: Yamaha GC2, Casio Privia PX-3, Roland RD800, Alesis VI61, Pianoteq 6.0
My motto: Play and Let Play!
Re: Kawai ES8 vs Roland RD-800 [Re: petes1] #2530415
04/13/16 05:32 PM
04/13/16 05:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 14
Europe
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inray Offline OP
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inray  Offline OP
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Europe
Originally Posted by petes1
If you're like me, your enjoyment of the board will just continue to grow. smile

Judging from the very first hours of playing with it, I'm pretty sure it will grow! smile


Roland RD-800 and others
Re: Kawai ES8 vs Roland RD-800 [Re: inray] #2530444
04/13/16 08:24 PM
04/13/16 08:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,406
Boston, Massachusetts
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Marko in Boston Offline
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Congrats inray! As petes1 said "welcome to the club." Truly a fantastic keyboard. It was an excellent gigging board for me since March '14 - very road worthy in every respect. Now, having it back at home full time, I have a whole new appreciation for it. Enjoy!


KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | YAMAHA CP4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS R65 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA
Re: Kawai ES8 vs Roland RD-800 [Re: Marko in Boston] #2530534
04/14/16 08:48 AM
04/14/16 08:48 AM
Joined: Apr 2015
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Brazil
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Cleverson Offline
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Yes, I also have one; congrats.

Re: Kawai ES8 vs Roland RD-800 [Re: inray] #2530540
04/14/16 09:37 AM
04/14/16 09:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,217
Vancouver, BC
JayGVan Offline
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Inray,

Congrats on your purchase, and thank you for your faith in Roland.

I did this RD-800 Turbo Start video series awhile back.

It might help you get a quicker start with your RD-800:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYmE4_gV8lkE1ZTtkKWNhUb-btSYPFzfh

Let me know if you find them useful to you!

Jay



Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
Re: Kawai ES8 vs Roland RD-800 [Re: inray] #2530682
04/14/16 05:44 PM
04/14/16 05:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 14
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inray Offline OP
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inray  Offline OP
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Thank you Jay,

I appreciate your helping me become familiar with my new RD-800
Really great stage keyboard btw! smile


Roland RD-800 and others
Re: Kawai ES8 vs Roland RD-800 [Re: inray] #2530973
04/15/16 05:20 PM
04/15/16 05:20 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 595
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Fer De Armas Offline
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Fer De Armas  Offline
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Congratulations...! IMHO, I prefer the quieter and more solid key action present in the Kawai MP7 instead the bouncy and noisier Roland RD800 key action... but tastes are like the names... everybody has at least one!. Cheers!.

Re: Kawai ES8 vs Roland RD-800 [Re: Fer De Armas] #2531045
04/15/16 08:43 PM
04/15/16 08:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,217
Vancouver, BC
JayGVan Offline
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JayGVan  Offline
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Originally Posted by Fer De Armas
Congratulations...! IMHO, I prefer the quieter and more solid key action present in the Kawai MP7 instead the bouncy and noisier Roland RD800 key action... but tastes are like the names... everybody has at least one!. Cheers!.


Wow.....just wow....

Jay


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
Re: Kawai ES8 vs Roland RD-800 [Re: inray] #2531059
04/15/16 09:53 PM
04/15/16 09:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,640
Hernando, MS
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fizikisto Offline
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Hernando, MS
Jay,
Trolls are going to troll. What can you do? smile


Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800

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