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Sauter upright pianos #2525592
03/29/16 05:52 AM
03/29/16 05:52 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,980
Scotland
Beemer Offline OP
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Beemer  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,980
Scotland
I would like to read opinions on Sauter upright pianos particularly the 122 and 130 Master Class models. Are they in the same class as Grotrian and Steingraeber?

Also, just as aside, what is your opinion on the Peter Maly designs? To me they lower the tone (pun intended) of this old established German company, but then I'm old too which is probably the reason for my opinion.

Ian


I'm all keyed up
2016 Blüthner Model A
Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
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Re: Sauter upright pianos [Re: Beemer] #2525594
03/29/16 06:03 AM
03/29/16 06:03 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,129
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Rich Galassini Online content
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Rich Galassini  Online Content
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,129
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Sauter makes a beautiful upright piano.

Grotrian and Steingraeber are also beautiful.

Here is the question - What do YOU enjoy? And what are the differences between the pianos from your perspective?

Bottom line - buy what you love.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
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Re: Sauter upright pianos [Re: Rich Galassini] #2525608
03/29/16 07:25 AM
03/29/16 07:25 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,980
Scotland
Beemer Offline OP
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Beemer  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2013
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Scotland
Rich,

I agree with your comment. However as far as I have found out there are no Sauter dealers in Scotland.

Ian



I'm all keyed up
2016 Blüthner Model A
Re: Sauter upright pianos [Re: Beemer] #2525689
03/29/16 11:35 AM
03/29/16 11:35 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,597
Atlanta, GA
PianoWorksATL Offline
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PianoWorksATL  Offline
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Posts: 3,597
Atlanta, GA
Sauter makes excellent uprights. I am particularly fond of the 122 as I think it is, musically, a brilliant design.

When comparing the 130 Masterclass, I prefer the Grotrian in that size class among other elite uprights as my personal favorite.


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
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Re: Sauter upright pianos [Re: Beemer] #2525717
03/29/16 12:57 PM
03/29/16 12:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 646
France
J
Jean Claude Offline
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Jean Claude  Offline
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J

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 646
France


My own piano is a Sauter upright, of slightly older vintage than the current product line, and it is an absolute pleasure to play. I have also managed to play most of the current models and have not found one that I did not like. I must also add that I played a new Bechstein upright (don't know which model)a while ago which was superlative. In my opinion all the uprights mentioned so far (Grotrian, Sauter, Steingraeber, Bechstein) are wonderful instruments and personal taste as to tone is, or ought to be, the main criterion when choosing between one or the other.

Re: Sauter upright pianos [Re: Beemer] #2525728
03/29/16 01:21 PM
03/29/16 01:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,897
J
joe80 Offline
2000 Post Club Member
joe80  Offline
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J

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,897
Hey Beemer,

There is no Sauter dealer in Scotland. However, Alan Makin might be able to facilitate a sale for you if you wish to buy one. They are good pianos, and they are up there with the very best, they're of equal quality to Blüthner, Grotrian, Steingraeber, Bechstein, and it's really a matter of preference as to which you prefer.

The nearest Sauter dealer to you may well be Yorkshire Pianos, but it might be just as well to go to London, stay there for a few days and go and visit some of the different dealers in the surrounding area, since buying a piano is a large purchase and you probably won't repeat it any time soon, it's worth shopping properly. You can even go to the Sauter factory and select one should you wish to do so.

I've played a couple of Sauter pianos and I have found them to be absolutely beautiful. Schimmel pianos are also worth considering, although with Schimmel I prefer the uprights to their grands. I feel the same about Bechstein oddly enough.

Re: Sauter upright pianos [Re: Beemer] #2525754
03/29/16 02:13 PM
03/29/16 02:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 194
Netherlands
H
HansC2 Offline
Full Member
HansC2  Offline
Full Member
H

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 194
Netherlands
I think that above a certain quality level the level of regulation and voicing is more important than the particular brand. This weekend I played different second hand good quality grands and found that all of them were badly regulated compared to my 2007 Yamaha C2.

My point is that it seems to be worthwhile to buy a second hand piano of a well respected brand and spent some money on regulation and voicing. Of course before buying, a skilled piano technician should always confirm that the piano does not has fundamental technical problems...

When a second hand top quality piano is not well regulated and voiced, it does not sound well. Generally speaking I believe that dealers are not interested in regulation and voicing when it comes to second hand piano's. That's why I choose to buy a second hand piano privately (saves you a couple of thousands pounds) and spend the money on maintenance. (Although in the end I even decided to do all regulation and tuning myself and I am still very happy that I did. Love my action and tuning. But this of course depends on the quality of the piano technician one can find. I couldn't find a skilled piano technician.)

Just my two cents based on my own experience.

Re: Sauter upright pianos [Re: Beemer] #2525922
03/30/16 04:36 AM
03/30/16 04:36 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 43
C
cub Offline
Full Member
cub  Offline
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C

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 43
Hi Ian,

I have had a MC 130 now for about 3 years and am happy to say that I could not imagine an upright to be better for my needs as this one. I did not try all the other tier 1 brands in my search as I was so happy with the tone of the Sauter and the reputation on quality that I didn't need to keep looking. I am a early intermediate player - working on grade 4-6 level pieces.

My technician who works on many high end instruments both locally and internationally has told me on multiple occasions that my piano is one of the finest he has ever worked on in terms of the quality of construction, finish, action, tone etc.

The action is very responsive, fast and controllable for an upright. The base is rich and powerful, the mid range is sweet and the upper range is sparkle and magic!
You can make very powerful music that shakes you to the core and also play delicate, dreamy soft music with ease.

Tuning is stable - I find every 6-9 months it needs just some minor tuning - more frequent in the first 12 months.

Presentation is stunning - conservative style - an immaculate interior if you lift the lid and look in grin

Probably more suited to romantic / lyrical / harmonic music than percussive (baroque) music but others may differ in opinion on this.

The piano needed minimal set up on delivery from factory. I believe they are very well prepped before being shipped.
If you search through this forum you will find a few very happy Sauter owners who have shared their experiences.

So my completely biased and one sided recommendation:
Buy a Sauter - you wont regret it!
My measured and balanced advice is:
Buy the piano you love - you wont regret it!

disclaimer 1: I'm still dreaming of owning a grand. frown

disclaimer 2: no connection to industry what so ever

All the best with your decision.

Cub


Re: Sauter upright pianos [Re: Beemer] #2526049
03/30/16 01:15 PM
03/30/16 01:15 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,406
Surrey, B.C.
Norbert Offline
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Norbert  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,406
Surrey, B.C.
Sauter and many other top German makes make outstanding pianos, always have.
Having said that, the gap to others have IMHO been considerably diminished in recent years.
Visitors to our showroom have the opportunity to measure one of our top uprights against a 49" Sauter.
The result has been quite astounding - consistently.
Next I show them what grand they can get for same price as a Sauter upright.
This usually settles the case right then and there.
[Not that 'settling' was the intention of the exercise...]
From my experience as well form those of others, German uprights have a very limited appeal in today's world. Something that's reflected by the reportedly high inventory remaining in most factories.

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 03/30/16 01:18 PM.

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Re: Sauter upright pianos [Re: Beemer] #2526103
03/30/16 03:40 PM
03/30/16 03:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 872
Germany
patH Offline
500 Post Club Member
patH  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 872
Germany
In my opinion Sauter pianos are among those with the best action out there, for uprights.
Personally I find Grotrian uprights to have an action a bit too light for my taste; but that's a matter of personal preference. I haven't tried Steingraeber uprights.

As for sound: That's entirely a matter of taste.

Are the Maly pianos tuned to 435 or lower? Because if they aren't, I don't believe they lower the tone. wink

Last edited by patH; 03/30/16 03:41 PM. Reason: corrected typos

Everything is possible, and nothing is sure.
Re: Sauter upright pianos [Re: Norbert] #2526125
03/30/16 04:35 PM
03/30/16 04:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,897
J
joe80 Offline
2000 Post Club Member
joe80  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,897
Originally Posted by Norbert
Sauter and many other top German makes make outstanding pianos, always have.
Having said that, the gap to others have IMHO been considerably diminished in recent years.
Visitors to our showroom have the opportunity to measure one of our top uprights against a 49" Sauter.
The result has been quite astounding - consistently.
Next I show them what grand they can get for same price as a Sauter upright.
This usually settles the case right then and there.
[Not that 'settling' was the intention of the exercise...]
From my experience as well form those of others, German uprights have a very limited appeal in today's world. Something that's reflected by the reportedly high inventory remaining in most factories.

Norbert



It's that old story of who are the tier one uprights being made for? Generally those who want the highest available quality but who have space restrictions. Sometimes the tier one upright is better than the lower tier grand, and sometimes not (and i'm talking here about the situation where the preparation on each has been carried out to the highest level). Sometimes someone just falls in love with a sound and that sound might belong to the upright.

Sometimes people buy tier one uprights because they want the name - Steinway, Blüthner, Bösendorfer, Bechstein, Sauter, Schimmel, etc etc rather than the instrument. Fine, because they're all fine pianos, but yeah, it's not the best reason to buy one.

The most obvious thing about a grand is that the action is usually better, faster, more expressive, on any well prepared and well built grand than it is on any upright, although I have been bowled over by a couple of uprights in my time.

Re: Sauter upright pianos [Re: Beemer] #2526368
03/31/16 10:44 AM
03/31/16 10:44 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,980
Scotland
Beemer Offline OP
Bronze Subscriber
Beemer  Offline OP
Bronze Subscriber

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,980
Scotland
My wife does not play an instrument and has no interest in classical music. When I said that I was saving to replace my upright with a used grand the words "over my dead body" were heard. Our lounge is 25x12 feet and apart from the wall that my upright is on she "owns" the rest of the area.
Soon after she asked me what a good upright would cost? Up to that point she had not been happy about any change to the existing piano.
So I guessed that because of her question I could cheekily up the amount I was going to spend on the used 5'4" grand and get a better upright. So far the plan is working but this week after I finished voicing she said "that sounds better so are you just going to keep it?"

Maybe I should tell her that I can't tune it anymore and then when its howling she will beg me to change it.

Ian

Last edited by Beemer; 03/31/16 03:17 PM.

I'm all keyed up
2016 Blüthner Model A
Re: Sauter upright pianos [Re: Beemer] #2526379
03/31/16 11:17 AM
03/31/16 11:17 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,550
Melbourne, Australia
A
ando Offline
5000 Post Club Member
ando  Offline
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A

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,550
Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted by Beemer
My wife does not play an instrument and has no interest in classical music. When I said that I was saving to replace my upright with a used grand the words "over my dead body" were heard. Our lounge is 25x12 feet and apart from the wall that my upright is on she "owns" the rest of the area.


Meh, they say that, but they almost always give in before they're dead...

Re: Sauter upright pianos [Re: Beemer] #2526380
03/31/16 11:22 AM
03/31/16 11:22 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,980
Scotland
Beemer Offline OP
Bronze Subscriber
Beemer  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,980
Scotland
If I go first she is liable to have me stuffed and left sitting at the piano 😆

Ian


I'm all keyed up
2016 Blüthner Model A
Re: Sauter upright pianos [Re: Beemer] #2526388
03/31/16 11:55 AM
03/31/16 11:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,511
Suffolk, England
W
Withindale Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Withindale  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
W

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,511
Suffolk, England
Why not go for one of those heavily carved 19c 55" black uprights or perhaps a Bluthner S?

On second thoughts why not see how a Bluthner baby grand in figured mahogany might look in the room?

Much to my surprise my wife was keen on the Ibach which just happened to be in rosewood. In it came and out went all sorts of other stuff!


Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
Re: Sauter upright pianos [Re: Beemer] #2526424
03/31/16 02:16 PM
03/31/16 02:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 476
Tweedpipe Offline
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Tweedpipe  Offline
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Posts: 476
Originally Posted by Beemer
I would like to read opinions on Sauter upright pianos particularly the 122 and 130 Master Class models. Are they in the same class as Grotrian and Steingraeber?

Also, just as aside, what is your opinion on the Peter Maly designs? To me they lower the tone (pun intended) of this old established German company, but then I'm old too which is probably the reason for my opinion.
Ian


I purchased a Sauter 122 Master Class almost 8 years ago.
It seems like yesterday, as the 'honeymoon' seems to be endless. This piano is sheer delight.
The dealer's tuner who I didn't have much faith in, led me to look around for someone who was obviously top rate. I eventually found a nearby S&S dealer/tuner who was a little reluctant at first, as I wasn't a client. After some persuasion he came, (he was generally unfamiliar with Sauter, and had never seen a MasterClass), and is now my regular tuner who says it's among the best uprights he's ever encountered.
Here's a link I posted at the time of delivery.

My Sauter MasterClass

Prior to purchase I was unable to find a Grotrian, Bluthner, or Steingraeber to audition, but a short time later I did try the latter which was also superb. I suggest you try them all if possible.
As a lover of fine wines - and I'm ideally located for them, this Sauter MasterClass is the perfect complement to a fine Bordeaux. Amazingly it appears to get even better with age.

I'll be interested to hear of your findings. Good luck.






Currently working on:-
C Major scale (r/h only - starting with the pinkie finger)......

Dear Noah,
We could have sworn you said the ark wasn't leaving till 5.
Yours sincerely,
The Unicorns



------------------------------

Re: Sauter upright pianos [Re: Tweedpipe] #2526455
03/31/16 03:29 PM
03/31/16 03:29 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,980
Scotland
Beemer Offline OP
Bronze Subscriber
Beemer  Offline OP
Bronze Subscriber

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,980
Scotland
Tweedpipe,

Of course some sweet tooth pianists prefer a 'Sauternes' 😆

http://preview.tinyurl.com/gsf6nlg

I read your thread and am most impressed. I don't have a Silver Lady but yes it would be nice to have that RR inlaid on my new piano too!

Ian

Last edited by Beemer; 03/31/16 03:42 PM.

I'm all keyed up
2016 Blüthner Model A

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