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Grease for fatar keyboard. #2525252
03/28/16 12:26 AM
03/28/16 12:26 AM
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Synthhero Offline OP
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Last week I purchased a PC2X Kurzweil (used). Keys were noicy and sticky so i moved the old grass and i replaced it with vaseline and engine oil. After this keys got more sticky! I completely removed that and replace the vaseline-oil with white lithium grease.
What kind of grease should I apply to my Fatar's keyboard vertical rubber key guides? White lithium grease dried out and keys are heavy. Ι have already tried vaseline but it is harming (expands) the rubber parts of the vertical key guides that is marked with the arrow at the photo http://imgur.com/adbcbPl. I need your help.
Thank you.

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Re: Grease for fatar keyboard. [Re: Synthhero] #2525286
03/28/16 05:55 AM
03/28/16 05:55 AM
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Austria, EU
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lophiomys Offline
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First I would send an email to Fatar or Kurzweil asking for advice on the right grease.

Otherwise I found this:
http://www.thomann.de/gb/gewa_micro_teflon.htm

Be careful not to use any "oil" which would ruin the plastics inside the action.
Specialist grease from remote-controlled-gadget-sector could also be an option.

Re: Grease for fatar keyboard. [Re: Synthhero] #2525371
03/28/16 12:11 PM
03/28/16 12:11 PM
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Thomas B Offline
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I once had a problem with squeaking keys on my Fatar keyboard. I contacted the technical support at Doepfer and they told to me to use a lubricant free of resin (e.g. vaseline). I used vaseline from the pharmacy and it did the job. However, I don't remember if my keyboard had these rubbers...

Thomas

Re: Grease for fatar keyboard. [Re: Synthhero] #2525399
03/28/16 01:34 PM
03/28/16 01:34 PM
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Posts: 12
Canada
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bmac.to Offline
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I do not know anything about fixing piano's but in automotive circles, standard grease and rubber do not mix (grease expands the rubber). If there is contact with rubber, silicon grease is always used (google sylglyde).

Re: Grease for fatar keyboard. [Re: Synthhero] #2525401
03/28/16 01:46 PM
03/28/16 01:46 PM
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yb Offline
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I would have thought something that isn't sticky or wet per se, like graphite or teflon would work best.

Re: Grease for fatar keyboard. [Re: yb] #2525407
03/28/16 01:56 PM
03/28/16 01:56 PM
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Hobart, Australia
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ando Offline
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Originally Posted by yb
I would have thought something that isn't sticky or wet per se, like graphite or teflon would work best.


Graphite around contacts, or electronics for that matter, is a big no-no. It can cause short circuits, being an excellent conductor. It's also very mobile and can migrate a long way from where it starts.

Re: Grease for fatar keyboard. [Re: ando] #2525409
03/28/16 02:02 PM
03/28/16 02:02 PM
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yb Offline
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Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by yb
I would have thought something that isn't sticky or wet per se, like graphite or teflon would work best.


Graphite around contacts, or electronics for that matter, is a big no-no. It can cause short circuits, being an excellent conductor. It's also very mobile and can migrate a long way from where it starts.


There shouldn't be any need to grease or lubricate electronics. Nor should they squeak (unless you've sampled a mouse)

That said the OP used engine oil, so perhaps you're wise to assume the worst laugh

Re: Grease for fatar keyboard. [Re: Synthhero] #2525504
03/28/16 08:20 PM
03/28/16 08:20 PM
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Synthhero Offline OP
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The matter is that after the plastic rubber got expanded by thr Vaseline-oil grease cocktail i used shaving stuff to fix the rubber key guides. I need something tested that did great job and lasted. If someone is doing weighted keyboard services please answer that's gonna help a lot.

Last edited by Synthhero; 03/28/16 08:21 PM.
Re: Grease for fatar keyboard. [Re: Synthhero] #2525678
03/29/16 12:06 PM
03/29/16 12:06 PM
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Orig. land of Svear&Götar
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RaggedKeyPresser Offline
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The first thing I would have tried would be a thin coating of silicon grease.
And I mean thin...

Last edited by RaggedKeyPresser; 03/29/16 12:09 PM.

Czerny's Piano School Vol. 1. Reviewing basics/ear training/analysis in interesting exercises.
Opus 599. Now at #77 and giving it a break.
Re: Grease for fatar keyboard. [Re: Synthhero] #2525788
03/29/16 05:10 PM
03/29/16 05:10 PM
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Posts: 12
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Synthhero Offline OP
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Does silicon dry?
Has anyone tested that?? Should I buy it as spray or in a tube?

Re: Grease for fatar keyboard. [Re: Synthhero] #2525827
03/29/16 07:03 PM
03/29/16 07:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,184
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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It seems you've already damaged the piano by using guesswork to choose a lubricant. I think it's time to stop.

Use the recommended lubricant. Contact the manufacturer for advice, or seek help from someone who knows.

Re: Grease for fatar keyboard. [Re: Synthhero] #2525962
03/30/16 09:34 AM
03/30/16 09:34 AM
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RaggedKeyPresser Offline
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As lube in a tube.


Czerny's Piano School Vol. 1. Reviewing basics/ear training/analysis in interesting exercises.
Opus 599. Now at #77 and giving it a break.
Re: Grease for fatar keyboard. [Re: Synthhero] #2526109
03/30/16 04:56 PM
03/30/16 04:56 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 100
Italy
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Paolo70 Offline
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Dear all,

Let me take the opportunity of this thread to discourage you from attempting maintenance work on your digital pianos without an absolutely clear understanding of what to do and what not to do.

I myself went very close to destroying the key sensing electronics of a Clavinova when I used an improper lubricant for the keyboard action parts. In that case the lubricant (a liquid one) ended up infiltrating the key sensing boards after some days of playing, causing a progressive degradation of the instrument's even response to dynamics across the keyboard.

In the end, I was forced to disassemble the keyboard completely again, clean each single mechanical part carefully, replace the (rather expensive) rubber contact strip, which had become swollen, and.. eventually buy the correct lubricant for the keyboard. Overall.. a very bad idea! frown

Ciao,
Paolo


Yamaha CLP-970
Roland JV-1080
Re: Grease for fatar keyboard. [Re: Paolo70] #2526199
03/30/16 09:47 PM
03/30/16 09:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 12
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Synthhero Offline OP
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MacMacMac Thats why I ask for any TESTED ideas.
If you guys know something more let me know.
Thanks.

Re: Grease for fatar keyboard. [Re: Synthhero] #2526227
03/30/16 11:18 PM
03/30/16 11:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,217
Vancouver, BC
JayGVan Offline
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Contact the manufacturer.

They will have done the testing on the correct material for you. They can either supply, or point you in the direction of the correct material.

Jay


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
Re: Grease for fatar keyboard. [Re: Synthhero] #2526749
04/01/16 11:36 AM
04/01/16 11:36 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 59
Rusty Mike Offline
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Sorry it took me so long to post here. I have re-lubricated the Fatar TP-100 action on my Nord Electro 3 multiple times, as it has been prone to the clacking issue affecting some keyboards. After some research, I purchased a tube of Molykote 55 from Dow Corning. It's an O-ring lubricant which I selected due to its non-corrosiveness and plastic compatibility.

I've done the lubrication twice. The first time was rather cursory, and the clacking came back after a brief period. The second time was much more exhaustive, where I completely took the action apart, cleaned and lubricated each key individually and then reassembling.

I will state that I do not recommend anyone does this, and you do it at your own risk. If you are interested in what I did, you can see the description in this THREAD.


Pramberger PS-157, Roland RD800, Nord Stage 2EX 76HP
Re: Grease for fatar keyboard. [Re: Rusty Mike] #2526993
04/02/16 05:23 AM
04/02/16 05:23 AM
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Posts: 1,091
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RaggedKeyPresser Offline
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Originally Posted by Rusty Mike
The second time was much more exhaustive, where I completely took the action apart, cleaned and lubricated each key individually and then reassembling.

...and does it have a lasting effect now?


Czerny's Piano School Vol. 1. Reviewing basics/ear training/analysis in interesting exercises.
Opus 599. Now at #77 and giving it a break.
Re: Grease for fatar keyboard. [Re: Synthhero] #2527036
04/02/16 11:13 AM
04/02/16 11:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,184
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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Raleigh, North Carolina
There were lengthy threads on other boards some years ago regarding the appropriate choice of lubricants ... and also about the proper PLACES to lubricate. Neither of these is obvious, and the latter (as we'll see) is counter-intuitive.

Yamaha supplies a special lubricant for its keyboards. I don't know the composition. But when I bought replacement contact pads from Yamaha's supply post in California, I inquired about the lubricant. The agent said she'd include a small vial for free along with the order. (It costs $150 for a large tub, but only a full-time tech would ever need that much. The small vial she supplied was more than enough for my use.)

The lube is a blueish pasty substance unlike any other I've seen, but it's plainly NOT a petroleum derivative.

As for where to lubricate ... the old posts I referred to talked about how Yamaha discovered in the early 2000s that the rear pivot point is NOT the place to lubricate. For one, it's not needed there. For two, the lube they used to supply damaged the plastic pivot, thereby causing rather than alleviating the problem.

The newer lube is applied to the vertical post under the front of each white key. This solves the problem in which keys tend to stick when pressed obliquely, even though they move freely when struck vertically. That's the counter-intuitive part. I don't understand why it works, but it does. I've had it done for me twice by techs, and once more myself using the free sample I mentioned earlier.

Re: Grease for fatar keyboard. [Re: Synthhero] #2527039
04/02/16 11:39 AM
04/02/16 11:39 AM
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Posts: 9,184
Raleigh, North Carolina
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Another point: Mechanical noise doesn't always call for lubrication. Sometimes the noise comes from the keys bottoming out on the felt pads above and below the key travel-path.

My eight-year-old Clavinova has this issue, and I plan to replace the felt strips. I've seen a video on this subject. It's just a matter of removing the adhesive-backed strips and applying new ones.

Re: Grease for fatar keyboard. [Re: RaggedKeyPresser] #2527138
04/02/16 05:55 PM
04/02/16 05:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
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Rusty Mike Offline
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Originally Posted by RaggedKeyPresser
Originally Posted by Rusty Mike
The second time was much more exhaustive, where I completely took the action apart, cleaned and lubricated each key individually and then reassembling.

...and does it have a lasting effect now?


I had done around early November, and so far it has been fine.


Pramberger PS-157, Roland RD800, Nord Stage 2EX 76HP
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