Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
What's Hot!!
Mr. PianoWorld - the full interview
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


Who's Online Now
89 registered members (20/20 Vision, bennevis, bounced, ando, Biff Steel, Agent88, 26 invisible), 1,346 guests, and 6 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 #2522845
03/20/16 07:07 AM
03/20/16 07:07 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Tubbie0075 Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Tubbie0075  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Dear fellow forum members,

This piece has been a long time coming. Back in around 2002, I watched the movie The Pianist. In there was a scene where the pianist played Chopin's Ballade No. 1 to the German Officer. That was the first time I heard this piece and has since been captivated by it.

In 2004, a year after moving to Australia, I was learning the violin. I had a Kawai digital piano with me but my piano skills was a joke (at some level it still is now), but I bought the music book with Chopin's complete Ballades. I tried to learn the notes but it was just impossible. The book was put away for another 12 years.

Fast forward to today, after 6 years of piano lessons, my teacher is finally convinced that I am ready for it (I had to go through AMEB grade 8 and Liszt Waldesrauschen to convince him!). Today marks the first lesson I am officially learning this piece.

This journey will take me 6 to 12 months depending on how far I want to go (which is nothing since I waited 12 years to get here). So I am writing a journal of my learning process. At times, I will likely post some video clips of me practising passages, or playing longer excepts here and there when I feel I am a bit more fluent. For now, I am too scared to aim for recording the entire piece at the end of this journey. At the very least, I am aiming to at least record excepts as long as I can manage that makes up the entire piece.

Obviously I have other pieces to learn in conjunction. So at times I may be absent due to focusing on other pieces.

Let the journey begin!


[Linked Image]

Last edited by Tubbie0075; 03/20/16 07:13 AM.


Be your ♮ self
YouTube channel

Studying:
  • Chopin: Ballade No. 4
  • Rachmaninov: Prelude No. 5 (Gm)
  • Ravel: Pavane for Dead Princess
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: Tubbie0075] #2522856
03/20/16 07:52 AM
03/20/16 07:52 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 438
Italy
f3r Offline
Full Member
f3r  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 438
Italy
That's great Tubbie!

I also got to know this piece thanks to that movie but I don't remember when I watched it the first time.

I hope I won't have to wait as long as you had to.


Mark

[Linked Image]
Kawai CA97 | YouTube
Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: Tubbie0075] #2522944
03/20/16 01:46 PM
03/20/16 01:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 461
C
Coyotewoods Offline
Full Member
Coyotewoods  Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 461
That's wonderful to hear. I think you officially need to change your "I suck" tagline now that you're working on such an amazing piece that has haunted you for years.

I look forward to following along with your journey. Are you going to be posting here?

Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: Tubbie0075] #2522945
03/20/16 01:50 PM
03/20/16 01:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 496
PA
Music Me Online content
Full Member
Music Me  Online Content
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 496
PA
That's fantastic!
Congrats to you, my friend. Enjoy the process. We are here to cheer you on. I look forward to future posts.


Barbara
...without music, no life...
(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: Tubbie0075] #2523035
03/20/16 07:23 PM
03/20/16 07:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,257
Australia
E
earlofmar Offline
3000 Post Club Member
earlofmar  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,257
Australia
This is very exciting, looking forward to reading about your journey with this piece.


Problems with piano are 90% psychological, the other 10% is in your head.

13x[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: Tubbie0075] #2523039
03/20/16 07:50 PM
03/20/16 07:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 375
Queensland Australia
MarieJ Offline
Gold Subscriber
MarieJ  Offline
Gold Subscriber
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 375
Queensland Australia
As I've just finished reading Alan Rusbridger's ‘Play it again: an amateur against the impossible’, the amazing account of his struggles and triumphs learning that piece, I'm in awe!





[Linked Image] [Linked Image]XXXVIII-LI

My C3 - solace.
Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: MarieJ] #2523065
03/20/16 10:09 PM
03/20/16 10:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Tubbie0075 Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Tubbie0075  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted by MarieJ
As I've just finished reading Alan Rusbridger's ‘Play it again: an amateur against the impossible’, the amazing account of his struggles and triumphs learning that piece, I'm in awe!





Well, this will be my version of the same journey. My English is not good enough to write a book about it. So I'm sharing my journey here with much simpler journals plus videos/sound clips.




Be your ♮ self
YouTube channel

Studying:
  • Chopin: Ballade No. 4
  • Rachmaninov: Prelude No. 5 (Gm)
  • Ravel: Pavane for Dead Princess
Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: Coyotewoods] #2523067
03/20/16 10:21 PM
03/20/16 10:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Tubbie0075 Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Tubbie0075  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted by MooseNotes


I look forward to following along with your journey. Are you going to be posting here?


Yes MooseNotes, I will keep posting on this thread, similar to my 2-week journals for the preparation of AMEB grade 8 exam last year :-)

Other members seem to enjoy reading/following an entire journey in one post last time. So I'm repeating it for Chopin's Ballade.



Be your ♮ self
YouTube channel

Studying:
  • Chopin: Ballade No. 4
  • Rachmaninov: Prelude No. 5 (Gm)
  • Ravel: Pavane for Dead Princess
Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: Tubbie0075] #2523076
03/20/16 11:18 PM
03/20/16 11:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 577
V
Valencia Offline
500 Post Club Member
Valencia  Offline
500 Post Club Member
V
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 577
Tubbie!

I really look forward to your posts. And, you've got me wondering if maybe I should join you and also get back to this piece. This one has been on the back-burner for ages. I don't know if you saw my thread but I'm in a bit of a slump with piano and maybe the Ballade is something I can focus on while I'm waiting to see what happens with my hearing loss. (though tomorrow I might think this is a crazy idea so who knows...)

Have you decided how you will approach this? What sections will you start with? What do you think will be the hardest bits? For me, I've already worked on this piece off and on for quite some time (but still can't really play it!) I can play parts of it, but haven't worked on it musically that much. Portions are memorized (and some not), but it's been awhile since I've tried any of it, so I would have to go back and review everything. Mostly at the time I was just trying to get the piece into my fingers. Technically there are several stumbling blocks for me that need work (ex. evenness of fingers in the scale passages; of course, tempo). You are much more technically proficient at piano than I am, so probably won't have the same difficulties.

I look forward to your first update. I have no doubt that eventually you will record this whole piece.

Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: Valencia] #2523106
03/21/16 02:08 AM
03/21/16 02:08 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Tubbie0075 Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Tubbie0075  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted by Valencia


Have you decided how you will approach this? What sections will you start with? What do you think will be the hardest bits?


Thank you for asking those questions. I should be asking them myself and come up with some sort of plan before I begin.

I have spent a couple of days looking at the piece and going through some sections. My ex-Director once asked me how to eat an elephant. The answer is one bite at a time. So the first step is to break the piece into different bites (sections). To help breaking it up, I wrote down the bar numbers at the beginning of each line. There are 260 bars in the piece (I may have to recount that to be sure). I apologise that the following sections by bar numbers probably don't mean much unless you have the score:

Section 1: 1-65 (moderate)
Section 2a: 66-105 (easy)
Section 2b: 106-125 (hard)
Section 3a: 126-137 (moderate)
Section 3b: 138-161 (hard)
Section 4: 162-191 (moderate)
Section 5a: 192-202 (easy)
Section 5b: 203-260 (hard)

I had about 15 minutes in my previous lesson to go through the Ballade with my teacher. He has assigned me to learn up to bar 137. If you look at the bar numbers, that's half the piece, up to Section 3a. In the first half of the piece, the most difficult section in Section 2b. So I will spend most of my time learning this section while getting familiar with the rest of the first half before my next lesson. Luckily my teacher is on concert tour and won't be available for lesson until mid-April. So I have plenty of time.

Because I am so familiar with the piece as a listener, it is important for me not to listen to any recordings while I learn it. I must come to my own interpretation and avoid copying someone else unintentionally (sometimes intentionally).

First thing first, go though the notes and decide on the fingerings for bars 1-137. Resist the temptation to indulge myself by repeatedly playing my favourite passages within my fluency!

I plan to make a video recording this Easter long weekend. I want to see how poorly I play at the beginning of this journey then have something to compare with as I progress.

Stay tune!



Be your ♮ self
YouTube channel

Studying:
  • Chopin: Ballade No. 4
  • Rachmaninov: Prelude No. 5 (Gm)
  • Ravel: Pavane for Dead Princess
Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: Tubbie0075] #2524255
03/24/16 02:07 PM
03/24/16 02:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Tubbie0075 Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Tubbie0075  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
I said earlier that I will avoid listening to anyone's performance this piece while I am learning it. But I like many who follows Valentina Lisitsa, I have been waiting for her to play i. When I woke up at 4:30am this morning and saw that she uploaded the video unexpectedly, I had to watch it!






Be your ♮ self
YouTube channel

Studying:
  • Chopin: Ballade No. 4
  • Rachmaninov: Prelude No. 5 (Gm)
  • Ravel: Pavane for Dead Princess
Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: Tubbie0075] #2524319
03/24/16 05:37 PM
03/24/16 05:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 727
M
Michiyo-Fir Offline
500 Post Club Member
Michiyo-Fir  Offline
500 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 727
I'm going to monitor this thread!

I've loved the piece for many years as well and cannot wait till I feel that I am ready to learn it.

My teacher said I can try now, but I don't feel nearly nearly ready mentally, especially not since my favourite version is one which Horowitz plays and it just sings and sings.

I'm so happy for you tubbie that you're at the point of learning it! Best of luck and keep us all posted!


Yamaha C3, Yamaha Avant Grand N1 (sold), Steingraeber 170 (family's)
Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: Tubbie0075] #2524637
03/25/16 07:18 PM
03/25/16 07:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Tubbie0075 Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Tubbie0075  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Was going to make a video of my 1-week progress yesterday but got invited for lunch. Was going to make the video today then got calls from friends invited themselves. Then one of my dogs cut her paw cut and had to take her to the vet.

This video isn't going to happen is it?

Sigh...



Be your ♮ self
YouTube channel

Studying:
  • Chopin: Ballade No. 4
  • Rachmaninov: Prelude No. 5 (Gm)
  • Ravel: Pavane for Dead Princess
Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: Tubbie0075] #2524648
03/25/16 08:02 PM
03/25/16 08:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 654
Niagara Falls NY
ebonykawai Offline
500 Post Club Member
ebonykawai  Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 654
Niagara Falls NY
I LOVE THIS PIECE.


Currently working on Masterwork Classics Book 5
Kawai UST-9, Yamaha CLP565GP

"Sometimes I can only groan, and suffer, and pour out my despair at the piano!" - Frederic Chopin
Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: Tubbie0075] #2524672
03/25/16 10:13 PM
03/25/16 10:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 672
Bowling Green, KY
F
Forrest Halford Offline
500 Post Club Member
Forrest Halford  Offline
500 Post Club Member
F
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 672
Bowling Green, KY
Originally Posted by Tubbie0075
Was going to make a video of my 1-week progress yesterday but got invited for lunch. Was going to make the video today then got calls from friends invited themselves. Then one of my dogs cut her paw cut and had to take her to the vet.

This video isn't going to happen is it?

Sigh...


The only video that can happen at this point is a video of your nine day progress, but only if you do it sometime tomorrow.

Forrest


PTG Associate Member
Haydn Hob. XVI: 23 in F major
Debussy Arabesque #1, Reverie
Bach BWV 874, 883
My beliefs are only that unless I can prove them.
Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: Tubbie0075] #2524680
03/25/16 11:06 PM
03/25/16 11:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Tubbie0075 Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Tubbie0075  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Friends are late. So I squeezed in a quick practice. Friends aren't here yet, so I edited a video clip. They aren't here after that, so I uploaded the video to YouTube. Still not here. So I posted the video link here, as promised :-)

This is roughly one week progress. I just managed to practice for an hour or two a few days really.







Be your ♮ self
YouTube channel

Studying:
  • Chopin: Ballade No. 4
  • Rachmaninov: Prelude No. 5 (Gm)
  • Ravel: Pavane for Dead Princess
Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: Tubbie0075] #2524734
03/26/16 06:13 AM
03/26/16 06:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Tubbie0075 Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Tubbie0075  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Friends gone. Now I can write my journal.

I spent most of my practice sessions learning the notes. In particular, the more difficult sections. In the video, they are:

2:20 the arpeggios notes are mostly repetitive so not difficult to read but tricky to get from notes to notes
3:26 the arpeggios are also repetitive here so it's easier to memorise it then practice
3:56 too many notes to memorise so had to practise separate hands to get some fluency then play hands together very slowly

After my friends are gone, I managed to start learning the notes for another page. So I am up to bar 147 out of bar 260, almost up to half of page 9 of total 15 pages.

I spend very little time on the more easier passages, like the 2 and a half page, page 5 and first half of page 6. There will be plenty of opportunities to play these and learning the notes won't take long.

Now I have 4 and a half pages of difficult passages to learn the notes. I hope I get to all of them by end of Easter Monday.

Back to the piano!


Last edited by Tubbie0075; 03/26/16 06:16 AM.


Be your ♮ self
YouTube channel

Studying:
  • Chopin: Ballade No. 4
  • Rachmaninov: Prelude No. 5 (Gm)
  • Ravel: Pavane for Dead Princess
Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: Tubbie0075] #2524735
03/26/16 06:30 AM
03/26/16 06:30 AM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 325
Seminole, Florida, USA
Kenan Offline
Full Member
Kenan  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 325
Seminole, Florida, USA
Early riser here!
Loving the progress, motivates me so much to keep practicing.
What a wonderful piece as well, even on par with my favorite piece Op 31 scherzo Chopin.

Kind Regards and Best of Luck,


-Kenan
Pearl River EU122 48"
I've been playing piano with a teacher
since January '15
Studying under Eunmi Ko of USF as of June '16

My Youtube Channel

My Soundcloud

I also love Astronomy
Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: Tubbie0075] #2524962
03/27/16 12:17 AM
03/27/16 12:17 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Tubbie0075 Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Tubbie0075  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Today I got some fluency from bars 130 to 163. I'll keep on practising this section for the rest of today. Tomorrow is to learn the notes from 203 to the very end, 260.

Then the plan is to keep practising the following 2 hardest sections over and over again until they are more fluent than the easy sections.

Hardest sections:
106-164
203-260 (presto con fuoco plus 2 bars before)

It is tempting to play the sections from start to finish repeatedly. I must resist! Instead, within these 2 sections, I must find the hardest bars and practice them separately. Once they becomes more fluent than the rest, then only I am allowed to practice bigger chunks until the fluency of the entire section is consistent.

Next will be to visit the "easy" sections and find the hardest bits to practice. Then I can start to learn the piece as a whole and be ready for my next lesson in mid April.


Last edited by Tubbie0075; 03/27/16 12:17 AM.


Be your ♮ self
YouTube channel

Studying:
  • Chopin: Ballade No. 4
  • Rachmaninov: Prelude No. 5 (Gm)
  • Ravel: Pavane for Dead Princess
Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: Tubbie0075] #2525253
03/28/16 12:50 AM
03/28/16 12:50 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Tubbie0075 Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Tubbie0075  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Here's some learning notes video of bars 106-164 and 203-260.

I've cramped so many notes in my head this weekend I need a break!






Be your ♮ self
YouTube channel

Studying:
  • Chopin: Ballade No. 4
  • Rachmaninov: Prelude No. 5 (Gm)
  • Ravel: Pavane for Dead Princess
Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: Tubbie0075] #2525332
03/28/16 10:23 AM
03/28/16 10:23 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 496
PA
Music Me Online content
Full Member
Music Me  Online Content
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 496
PA
Hello Tubbie0075-

Thank you for doing this. You demonstrate just how much slow practice is vital to learning a piece. Your video is inspiring. It is Easter Monday and I will be heading home soon from visiting with my family in Philadelphia (I'm in New York). Soon as I unwind from my trip I will spend about two hours with the Bill Evans composition I am learning. No, it isn't Chopin, but it is just as beautiful, full of complicated rhythmic passages and it did for me what the Ballade does for you. And that's all that matters.

I will keep tuned! Enjoy the process!



Barbara
...without music, no life...
Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: Music Me] #2525460
03/28/16 04:24 PM
03/28/16 04:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Tubbie0075 Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Tubbie0075  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted by Music Me
Hello Tubbie0075-

Thank you for doing this. You demonstrate just how much slow practice is vital to learning a piece.



Hi Barbara,

Thank you for following my journals. I always thought that once you become a bit more advanced, the learning process become easier. But the old tricks still apply:

- practise hands separately
- practise notes in groups
- go slow, very very slow, for a very very long time

It is interesting that when I make myself accountable for my learning progress (through journals in this forum), I practise more properly.

Enjoy Bill Evans!



Be your ♮ self
YouTube channel

Studying:
  • Chopin: Ballade No. 4
  • Rachmaninov: Prelude No. 5 (Gm)
  • Ravel: Pavane for Dead Princess
Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: Tubbie0075] #2525484
03/28/16 06:15 PM
03/28/16 06:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 496
PA
Music Me Online content
Full Member
Music Me  Online Content
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 496
PA
Thank you, Tubbie -

I most certainly will. And, you far from "suck".

I also love that Ballade.


Barbara
...without music, no life...
Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: Tubbie0075] #2525555
03/29/16 02:25 AM
03/29/16 02:25 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Tubbie0075 Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Tubbie0075  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Other than practise the difficult passages again, today I spent some time learning the notes from bars 164-191. There are some stretches in the left hand arpeggios I don't like. I am using my own fingerings for some of them and have my teacher go over them in my next lesson. The second half of bar 177 is the most tricky bit in this section. 3 voices, left hand has 6 notes, middle voice in the right hand has 4 notes and the top voice has 3 with a triplet at the end. I'll let the photo tell the story. This half of a bar is driving me nuts!

[Linked Image]



This reminds me of another bar in Rachmaninov prelude no. 4:

[Linked Image]


Anyway, I'm also starting to play both hands together in the "Presto con Fuoco" section at the end of the piece. If my translation is correct, it is "Very Fast with Fire"? At the moment it sounds like "Slowest Humanly Possible with Thick Fog"!



Last edited by Tubbie0075; 03/29/16 02:29 AM.


Be your ♮ self
YouTube channel

Studying:
  • Chopin: Ballade No. 4
  • Rachmaninov: Prelude No. 5 (Gm)
  • Ravel: Pavane for Dead Princess
Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: Tubbie0075] #2525572
03/29/16 04:35 AM
03/29/16 04:35 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 354
C
Celdor Offline
Full Member
Celdor  Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 354
Hi Tubbie,

That's amazing idea. I wish my teacher would say to take this piece very soon but I am completely aware I am still technically not ready.

I will be looking forward to reading this topic and see how you have approached the difficult parts. That will help me with this and other demanding pieces smile

Thanks.


Zbigniew

[Linked Image]
Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: Tubbie0075] #2525575
03/29/16 05:01 AM
03/29/16 05:01 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,091
Orig. land of Svear&Götar
R
RaggedKeyPresser Offline
1000 Post Club Member
RaggedKeyPresser  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,091
Orig. land of Svear&Götar
Originally Posted by Tubbie0075
Other than practise the difficult passages again, today I spent some time learning the notes from bars 164-191. There are some stretches in the left hand arpeggios I don't like. I am using my own fingerings for some of them and have my teacher go over them in my next lesson. The second half of bar 177 is the most tricky bit in this section. 3 voices, left hand has 6 notes, middle voice in the right hand has 4 notes and the top voice has 3 with a triplet at the end. I'll let the photo tell the story. This half of a bar is driving me nuts!

[Linked Image]



This reminds me of another bar in Rachmaninov prelude no. 4:

[Linked Image]


Anyway, I'm also starting to play both hands together in the "Presto con Fuoco" section at the end of the piece. If my translation is correct, it is "Very Fast with Fire"? At the moment it sounds like "Slowest Humanly Possible with Thick Fog"!



Also, the staccato indications for the RH in that half-bar has no audible effect since all the dampers are off the strings, if you follow the pedal indication.


Czerny's Piano School Vol. 1. Reviewing basics/ear training/analysis in interesting exercises.
Opus 599. Now at #77 and giving it a break.
Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: RaggedKeyPresser] #2525589
03/29/16 06:20 AM
03/29/16 06:20 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Tubbie0075 Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Tubbie0075  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted by RaggedKeyPresser


Also, the staccato indications for the RH in that half-bar has no audible effect since all the dampers are off the strings, if you follow the pedal indication.


Actually it does. A pedalled staccato has a more "bell-like" sound compared a pedalled legato and difference is caused by the different "attack" on the keys. The better the piano is, the more you can use different attacks to get different sound effects.

In this context, I think Chopin wanted the middle voice to be played softly and detache (more like playing in quavers rather than staccato) so that it doesn't overpower the top and bass voices.



Be your ♮ self
YouTube channel

Studying:
  • Chopin: Ballade No. 4
  • Rachmaninov: Prelude No. 5 (Gm)
  • Ravel: Pavane for Dead Princess
Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: Celdor] #2525590
03/29/16 06:30 AM
03/29/16 06:30 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Tubbie0075 Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Tubbie0075  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted by Celdor
Hi Tubbie,

That's amazing idea. I wish my teacher would say to take this piece very soon but I am completely aware I am still technically not ready.



Actually I didn't verbally ask my teacher to teach this piece, and my teacher wasn't planning to teach it. But last lesson I brought the music book with me and "casually" left it on the piano desk while I played Liszt, a piece he suggested and I have been learning for the last 3 months. He was rather pleased with my progress.

Once I finished playing Liszt, he said, "I see Chopin Ballades there. Shall we have a look?" He took the not-so-subtle hint :-)








Be your ♮ self
YouTube channel

Studying:
  • Chopin: Ballade No. 4
  • Rachmaninov: Prelude No. 5 (Gm)
  • Ravel: Pavane for Dead Princess
Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: Tubbie0075] #2525613
03/29/16 08:45 AM
03/29/16 08:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 354
C
Celdor Offline
Full Member
Celdor  Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 354
Originally Posted by Tubbie0075
Originally Posted by Celdor
Hi Tubbie,

That's amazing idea. I wish my teacher would say to take this piece very soon but I am completely aware I am still technically not ready.


I brought the music book with me and "casually" left it on the piano desk ...

You have much greater experience than me. Whether intentionally or not, that thing worked smile I would also try it. However, our teacher is very strict about repertoire saying "We must learn to walk before we can run, otherwise we fall". I trust him so I'll wait smile


Zbigniew

[Linked Image]
Re: Learning Journal: Chopin Ballade No. 1 Op. 23 [Re: Celdor] #2525781
03/29/16 04:55 PM
03/29/16 04:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Tubbie0075 Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Tubbie0075  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,264
Melbourne, Australia
Celdor,

I tried that trick before about 2 years ago. It didn't work the first time probably because he thought I wasn't ready then.

This is a "stretch" piece for me but so was Liszt. I will not be able to bring it to concert performance level, but I feel I have enough techniques to at least play it through at a slower tempo.

Hopefully this will also give me a boost in confidence for my diploma exam next year playing easier pieces.




Be your ♮ self
YouTube channel

Studying:
  • Chopin: Ballade No. 4
  • Rachmaninov: Prelude No. 5 (Gm)
  • Ravel: Pavane for Dead Princess
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  BB Player 

New In Our Store!
New In Our Store!
key racks with hand sanitizer
Attn: Piano Teachers, Music Teachers, Studios!

A rack made from actual piano keys, with individual hand sanitizer for each student!
Tons more music related products in our online store!
(ad)
Jazz Piano Lessons
Jazz Piano Lessons
New Topics - Multiple Forums
An absolute bargain
by David-G. 09/19/18 08:19 PM
Eighth notes
by Progman. 09/19/18 05:31 PM
Maybe she's right
by squidbot. 09/19/18 01:24 PM
Any thoughts on this
by N W. 09/19/18 12:06 PM
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Steingraeber
Forum Statistics
Forums40
Topics187,379
Posts2,746,677
Members91,042
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1