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How should I increase scale speed? #2517916
03/06/16 01:25 AM
03/06/16 01:25 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 161
United States
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Nicholas Mihaila Offline OP
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Nicholas Mihaila  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2012
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United States
So I just started to get back into metronome work with scales. I’ve gotten to over 500 bpm (4 per tick) and I’m starting to have trouble tracking the ticking sound and syncing things correctly. I can sync my hands without the metronome, but with the metronome I tend to drift off track. I know that any concert pianist can play scales hands together at well over 500 bpm, but how did they get there? Did they advance using a metronome the whole time? I was thinking about using a stopwatch app. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

-Nick


Follow my mixed gaming and musical ambitions through my YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/NTMihaila

My cover of Inuyasha - Every Heart: https://youtu.be/-rFKbUoO7bM

Currently working on Fantasie Impromptu and Animenz's Owari no Sekai Kara.
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Re: How should I increase scale speed? [Re: Nicholas Mihaila] #2517924
03/06/16 02:40 AM
03/06/16 02:40 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,656
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Damon Offline
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I'm not sure I believe you.

Re: How should I increase scale speed? [Re: Nicholas Mihaila] #2517928
03/06/16 02:54 AM
03/06/16 02:54 AM
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wouter79 Offline
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Let me check if I get this correctly.

If I understand you right, you have the metronome at 500bpm (which metronome is that??) and you play "4 per tick" so 2000 notes per minute? That is 33 notes per second. Is this sustained speed or very short bursts?


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Re: How should I increase scale speed? [Re: Nicholas Mihaila] #2517931
03/06/16 03:03 AM
03/06/16 03:03 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,284
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
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I think that someone needs to brush up on his basic arithmetic skills!

Moreover, no metronome that I have seen can be set at 500 bpm's. If my basic arithmetic skills are sound, that's a smidgen of a bit of a shade over 8 beats per second.

As someone else pointed out, this is a claim of playing 33 notes per second and we're being asked how to increase scale speed?

Can we have a reality check here, please?


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Re: How should I increase scale speed? [Re: Nicholas Mihaila] #2517950
03/06/16 05:15 AM
03/06/16 05:15 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
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Israel
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Nahum Offline
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I recommend move to saxophone.



Last edited by Nahum; 03/06/16 05:16 AM.
Re: How should I increase scale speed? [Re: Nahum] #2517954
03/06/16 05:41 AM
03/06/16 05:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,348
London
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chopin_r_us Offline
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Too many notes!

Re: How should I increase scale speed? [Re: chopin_r_us] #2517960
03/06/16 06:23 AM
03/06/16 06:23 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,821
Israel
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Nahum Offline
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Israel
Originally Posted by chopin_r_us
Too many notes!
, too few music.

Re: How should I increase scale speed? [Re: Nicholas Mihaila] #2517968
03/06/16 07:02 AM
03/06/16 07:02 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 438
Italy
f3r Offline
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Maybe he means 125bpm with each note being a semiquaver? That's surely realistic but not ridiculously fast.

My metronome app goes up to 400 max... it sounds ridiculous.

Last edited by f3r; 03/06/16 07:04 AM.

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Re: How should I increase scale speed? [Re: Nicholas Mihaila] #2518153
03/06/16 03:27 PM
03/06/16 03:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,382
western MA, USA
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hreichgott Offline
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western MA, USA
Hi Nick,
I'm assuming you mean quarter note=125 and playing scales in even 16th notes.
At faster speeds, as long as you can mentally imagine what even 16th notes sound like at that speed, the only "secret" to increasing speed is figuring out what goes wrong when it goes wrong.
Not just "I can't do it faster than 125" but something specific about what happens when you go faster. Like "Finger 4 plays too close to finger 3" or "I'm not pressing this key down all the way" or "I am having trouble remembering the fingering HT" or "My thumb isn't arriving on time" or "My thumb is too loud" or "The 2nd 16th note in each beat sounds a little early/late".


Heather W. Reichgott, piano http://heatherwreichgott.blogspot.com

Working on:
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12+ variations from classical ballets
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Copland: Appalachian Spring
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Re: How should I increase scale speed? [Re: Nicholas Mihaila] #2518322
03/06/16 11:17 PM
03/06/16 11:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 116
Hong Kong
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symphonicdance Offline
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Hong Kong
I am neither a professional nor a teacher. Also, English is not my mother tongue. Nonetheless, I'll try to share my (silly) views any way ;p

The ways how you move your hands (see 1 below) and how you set your fingerings (see 2 below) will affect the speed. I forgot where/what occasion I learned about these: may be talking with friends, may be reading a magazine/book.

1. Do you place your thumb below the palm when you shift? That is, for example, in C major RH ascending, you put your thumb below the palm to play F after your middle finger played E, or similarly, thumb to play C after ring finger played B. Or do you quickly shift the hand horizontally (to the right) after attacking the notes? Not sure if this describes well: the former will make the horizontal hand moving plane looks a sea with waves, the latter will make the sea look relatively calm.

2. Again, using C major RH ascending as an example, do you maintain a fingering of 123-1234-123-1234-123-1234-etc or have you consider something else (weird!), like 12345-12345-12345-etc?

Regarding 1 & 2 above, how a player may choose will depend on which scale (or arpeggio!) he/she is going to play and how many octaves. Have I experimented myself? Yes, hard to use, but they work for me in some occasions (scale/arpeggio passages in a piece).

Re: How should I increase scale speed? [Re: wouter79] #2518361
03/07/16 03:31 AM
03/07/16 03:31 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 161
United States
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Nicholas Mihaila Offline OP
Full Member
Nicholas Mihaila  Offline OP
Full Member
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 161
United States
Originally Posted by wouter79

Let me check if I get this correctly
.
If I understand you right, you have the metronome at 500bpm (which metronome is that??) and you play "4 per tick" so 2000 notes per minute? That is 33 notes per second. Is this sustained speed or very short bursts?


By 500 bpm, 4 per tick, I meant that the metronome was set at 125 bpm. I thought it was pretty unambiguous because the alternative, 2000 bpm, is impossible. I'm surprised how many people misunderstood. I thought it was clear.

Originally Posted by symphonicdance
I am neither a professional nor a teacher. Also, English is not my mother tongue. Nonetheless, I'll try to share my (silly) views any way ;p

The ways how you move your hands (see 1 below) and how you set your fingerings (see 2 below) will affect the speed. I forgot where/what occasion I learned about these: may be talking with friends, may be reading a magazine/book.

1. Do you place your thumb below the palm when you shift? That is, for example, in C major RH ascending, you put your thumb below the palm to play F after your middle finger played E, or similarly, thumb to play C after ring finger played B. Or do you quickly shift the hand horizontally (to the right) after attacking the notes? Not sure if this describes well: the former will make the horizontal hand moving plane looks a sea with waves, the latter will make the sea look relatively calm.

2. Again, using C major RH ascending as an example, do you maintain a fingering of 123-1234-123-1234-123-1234-etc or have you consider something else (weird!), like 12345-12345-12345-etc?

Regarding 1 & 2 above, how a player may choose will depend on which scale (or arpeggio!) he/she is going to play and how many octaves. Have I experimented myself? Yes, hard to use, but they work for me in some occasions (scale/arpeggio passages in a piece).


I play all the scales using the standard fingering. And to answer your question, it's a combination of both: a tucking motion combined with a sideways motion of the hand.

Last edited by Nicholas Mihaila; 03/07/16 03:39 AM.

Follow my mixed gaming and musical ambitions through my YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/NTMihaila

My cover of Inuyasha - Every Heart: https://youtu.be/-rFKbUoO7bM

Currently working on Fantasie Impromptu and Animenz's Owari no Sekai Kara.
Re: How should I increase scale speed? [Re: Nicholas Mihaila] #2518365
03/07/16 04:08 AM
03/07/16 04:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,431
Groove On Online content
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Groove On  Online Content
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,431
This book has a section in it with a method for speeding up scales. It's free to download and might be worth a look I haven't used it myself but it sounded interesting.

Mastering Scales and Arpeggios by James Francis Cooke - look for the section called Developing the Greatest possible Velocity.


We are the music makers,
And we are the dreamers of dreams.
Re: How should I increase scale speed? [Re: Groove On] #2518367
03/07/16 04:16 AM
03/07/16 04:16 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 161
United States
N
Nicholas Mihaila Offline OP
Full Member
Nicholas Mihaila  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 161
United States
Originally Posted by Groove On
This book has a section in it with a method for speeding up scales. It's free to download and might be worth a look I haven't used it myself but it sounded interesting.

Mastering Scales and Arpeggios by James Francis Cooke


I'll check it out. Thank you.


Follow my mixed gaming and musical ambitions through my YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/NTMihaila

My cover of Inuyasha - Every Heart: https://youtu.be/-rFKbUoO7bM

Currently working on Fantasie Impromptu and Animenz's Owari no Sekai Kara.
Re: How should I increase scale speed? [Re: Nicholas Mihaila] #2518368
03/07/16 04:28 AM
03/07/16 04:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,431
Groove On Online content
1000 Post Club Member
Groove On  Online Content
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,431
Look for the section called Developing the Greatest possible Velocity.


We are the music makers,
And we are the dreamers of dreams.

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