57 registered members (Animisha, AprilE, accordeur, Coda9, Abdol, ADWyatt, amyram, camperbc, 17 invisible),
911
guests, and 428
spiders. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
New physmod of a Grand Piano – Pianoid
#2512088
02/18/16 10:52 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 35
valerykx
OP
Full Member
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 35 |
First samples are here – http://www.pianoid.com/sample.htmlWe hope it will be finally able to end use of piano samplers at least in classical musical education. What do you think?
|
|
|
Re: New physmod of a Grand Piano – Pianoid
[Re: valerykx]
#2512094
02/18/16 11:10 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 160
alerique
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 160 |
Just in my opinion, this one just as well as all the others while allowing a superior response to the player's actions as compared to the sampled pianos, still have an unpleasant synthetic aftertaste. I just can't shake this feeling off when listening to e.g. Pianoteq. It's good for many things, many people would prefer it to a sampled piano but I can't really say it is superior in every aspect.
|
|
|
Re: New physmod of a Grand Piano – Pianoid
[Re: valerykx]
#2512096
02/18/16 11:16 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 35
valerykx
OP
Full Member
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 35 |
Sorry to hear you, it seems to me that the sound indistinguishable from the live piano.
|
|
|
Re: New physmod of a Grand Piano – Pianoid
[Re: valerykx]
#2512151
02/18/16 02:36 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,164
sullivang
3000 Post Club Member
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,164 |
The overall sound sounds rather restricted in frequency range. I know that the note range is limited, but the frequency range also sounds very restricted, both in low and high frequencies. However, it does sound promising. The attacks seem to have something that Pianoteq is missing.
Greg.
|
|
|
Re: New physmod of a Grand Piano – Pianoid
[Re: valerykx]
#2512174
02/18/16 03:37 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 136
Maartin
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 136 |
Would be better able to judge it without all the reverb that's been added.
|
|
|
Re: New physmod of a Grand Piano – Pianoid
[Re: valerykx]
#2512183
02/18/16 04:00 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,161
Charles Cohen
5000 Post Club Member
|
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,161 |
Sorry to hear you, it seems to me that the sound indistinguishable from the live piano. Valery -- Is it possible that you are biased? . . . Have you been involved in the development or marketing of Pianoid? From _which_ "live piano" is the sound indistinguishable -- . . . a Steinway 6' grand ? . . . a Bechstein 6' grand ? . . . a Yamaha 7' grand ? . . . a Bluthner ? Each of these pianos has its own sound: . . . Which one does Pianoid match ?
. Charles --------------------------- PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / EV ZXA1 speaker
|
|
|
Re: New physmod of a Grand Piano – Pianoid
[Re: valerykx]
#2512185
02/18/16 04:09 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 35
valerykx
OP
Full Member
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 35 |
Charles Cohen You're right. I am involved in the development and marketing of Pianoid – Pianoid is a startup project. Pianoid is a physical model of a GP. Our approach is that we use precise model with huge calculating power. We use difference scheme to solve differential equations of strings, and we use modal approach to sounding board. As a result we get correct behavior of our model. The parameters we upload to Pianoid are: strings tension, stiffness, mass and length, bridge position, sounding board modes, their shapes, frequencies and Q factors etc. These data obtained through measurements of a real GP. The resulting sound quality is dependent on measurement accuracy. Give us a time and we will do model of a Steinway 6' grand a Bechstein 6' grand a Yamaha 7' grand a Bluthner I hope so!
Last edited by valerykx; 02/18/16 04:22 PM.
|
|
|
Re: New physmod of a Grand Piano – Pianoid
[Re: valerykx]
#2512191
02/18/16 04:21 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 94
Mr Zaxels
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 94 |
The best way I can find to describe this is "It sounds like you're hearing someone play the piano through an old telephone".
|
|
|
Re: New physmod of a Grand Piano – Pianoid
[Re: valerykx]
#2512194
02/18/16 04:24 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 621
slobajudge
500 Post Club Member
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 621 |
Nice, there is something in sound that promising, so I am very impatient for your pianoid. How long to wait for version 1 ?
|
|
|
Re: New physmod of a Grand Piano – Pianoid
[Re: Mr Zaxels]
#2512217
02/18/16 05:26 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,468
prout
4000 Post Club Member
|
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,468 |
The best way I can find to describe this is "It sounds like you're hearing someone play the piano through an old telephone". Funny, that is exactly what I think whenever I am forced to listen to music on YouTube, because people don't care enough to upload lossless audio in place of YouTube.
|
|
|
Re: New physmod of a Grand Piano – Pianoid
[Re: valerykx]
#2512263
02/18/16 07:52 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,788
Kawai James
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,788 |
valerykx, interesting development - thank you for posting.
May I ask what platform this software will eventually run on, and what kind of spec would be required for full 88-key modelling?
Kind regards, James x
|
|
|
Re: New physmod of a Grand Piano – Pianoid
[Re: valerykx]
#2512268
02/18/16 08:16 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 306
bnolsen
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 306 |
Interesting you aren't just using something like an rpiZero or rpi2 for this project. If you want cheap and programmable, that's where it's at...and today they released a fix that dramatically improves onboard audio playback.
|
|
|
Re: New physmod of a Grand Piano – Pianoid
[Re: bnolsen]
#2512282
02/18/16 08:50 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,161
Charles Cohen
5000 Post Club Member
|
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,161 |
Interesting you aren't just using something like an rpiZero or rpi2 for this project. If you want cheap and programmable, that's where it's at...and today they released a fix that dramatically improves onboard audio playback. PMFJI -- Pianoteq runs OK on an Intel i5 chip, but is marginal on anything slower. The Raspberry Pi doesn't have nearly enough horsepower to do this kind of real-time computing.
. Charles --------------------------- PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / EV ZXA1 speaker
|
|
|
Re: New physmod of a Grand Piano – Pianoid
[Re: valerykx]
#2512313
02/18/16 10:23 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 365
Marcos Daniel
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 365 |
Is this product the same that appeared a some years ago?
Pianoteq / Kawai CL 35 & MP11 / Old 1920's Upright Zimmerman
|
|
|
Re: New physmod of a Grand Piano – Pianoid
[Re: valerykx]
#2512366
02/19/16 03:15 AM
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 100
Paolo70
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 100 |
Hi Valery,
Thank you for sharing the samples.
I think that evaluation would be more productive if you could find a way to record the sound with higher quality. Honestly the samples sound like they were recorded on a C-60 cassette, hiss noise included (I'm sure many of you youngsters won't even understand what that means :D)!
Did you perhaps record the sound as diffused by loudspeakers? In that case, by all means find a way to record the direct digital output of your FPGA model.
Regarding the sound itself, the only thing I will say from what I could hear is that you might want to check whether your sustain is not shortened too much from excessive damping. That's most likely only a model parameters question though, so it should be easy to get a longer sustain. Ah, let me add that I also had the impression that when exercising dynamics there was a kind of 'two level quantization' of the spectral signature, which is exactly what I wouldn't expect from a modeled piano.
I see where you are going, and encourage you to go ahead, but there's a lot of work to be done to compete HW digitals and, most importantly, with Pianoteq.
Keep up the good work! Paolo
Yamaha CLP-970 Roland JV-1080
|
|
|
Re: New physmod of a Grand Piano – Pianoid
[Re: valerykx]
#2512371
02/19/16 03:53 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 35
valerykx
OP
Full Member
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 35 |
Kawai James Pianoid will be a non-expensive chip (about $30) with few SPI inputs for uploading coefficients and inputting MIDI events, and output for audio. This chip will not be programmable, it could solve only one task – calculate GP behavior. So it does not need any software platform. In final implementation, this chip can be integrated in existing devises, with their own operation system, or as standalone devise with FLASH (for keeping presets), WIFI (for downloading presets and making custom presets through website), MIDI input and audio output. In this case devise can use cheap microcontroller with small and light operation system like linux.
At a present time we use FPGA Xilinx xc7vx690t. It is very powerful programmable chip for ASIC prototyping. The full 88-keys version does not fit in this chip, so we need bigger FPGA. They do exists, but we need to find investors to make prototype and produce ASIC. According to our investigations, there is no problem to produce ASIC with necessary
|
|
|
Re: New physmod of a Grand Piano – Pianoid
[Re: valerykx]
#2512380
02/19/16 04:37 AM
|
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,241
Beemer
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,241 |
Valerykx,
Why have your posted a wav file that is digitally over-driven? There are many times during the performance where the clipping distortion occurs. See Greza-3.wav (Sweet Dreams)
Apart from that the recording is muffled and dare I say a little like a "revived" recording from an early 78rpm record. It is not a good advert for the technology.
Ian
I'm all keyed up 2016 Blüthner Model A
|
|
|
Re: New physmod of a Grand Piano – Pianoid
[Re: valerykx]
#2512385
02/19/16 05:03 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 23
Orco
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 23 |
Kawai James Pianoid will be a non-expensive chip (about $30) with few SPI inputs for uploading coefficients and inputting MIDI events, and output for audio. This chip will not be programmable, it could solve only one task – calculate GP behavior. So it does not need any software platform. In final implementation, this chip can be integrated in existing devises, with their own operation system, or as standalone devise with FLASH (for keeping presets), WIFI (for downloading presets and making custom presets through website), MIDI input and audio output. In this case devise can use cheap microcontroller with small and light operation system like linux.
At a present time we use FPGA Xilinx xc7vx690t. It is very powerful programmable chip for ASIC prototyping. The full 88-keys version does not fit in this chip, so we need bigger FPGA. They do exists, but we need to find investors to make prototype and produce ASIC. According to our investigations, there is no problem to produce ASIC with necessary
This is a really cool project. Hope it goes well for you. Myself, I work with ASIC development  How many are you working on this?
Last edited by Orco; 02/19/16 05:05 AM.
|
|
|
Re: New physmod of a Grand Piano – Pianoid
[Re: valerykx]
#2512396
02/19/16 06:21 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 35
valerykx
OP
Full Member
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 35 |
Orco thank you very mutch. We are working 10 years
|
|
|
Re: New physmod of a Grand Piano – Pianoid
[Re: valerykx]
#2512412
02/19/16 07:41 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 35
valerykx
OP
Full Member
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 35 |
Marcos Daniel, yes the same
|
|
|
|
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today. |
|
|
|
Forums41
Topics195,560
Posts2,899,533
Members95,178
|
Most Online15,252 Mar 21st, 2010
|
|
|