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Hi, teachers,

I am not a teacher, but I think my question can only be answered by teachers. So I post here.
I have a son 7.5 year old. He began to learn Piano when he was 4.5. We live in Canada. Both my husband and I are not music professional. We cannot even sing the anthem right. So your comments here are appreciated.

When my son was just turn 6 year old, he finished four books of Thompson for Young Learner, his teacher wanted him to spend next two years (at least) on Czerny and Bayer.
You know, the books Thompson for Young Learner have all the funny drawings every page for little kids. I found those Czerny and Bayer have pages after pages music notes. No funny drawings at all. I think the two books will be too intimating and boring for a 6 year old.
The teacher said that she was trained on the same books at the same sequence. If not use these books, she would not know how to train my son. The major difference is that "she was 10 year old when she begin Bayer, she was 11 year old when working on Czerny." I thought that books for teaching a 10 year old and a 6 year old should be different. The teacher said that my son have to play Czerny and Bayer before play any sonatina.
I was very worried that heavy duty exercise will ruin my son's interest in piano. I suspend his class for 2 months until a friend recommend a male teacher in the town. I still do not know Whether I quit from the first teacher is right or wrong from piano-learning view. I only acted out of pure instinct of a mom.
Both my son and I have been happy with this new teacher for 1.5 year now. He did not give any piece from Czerny and Bayer. All assignments are beautiful minuets and sonatinas.

However last week, one of my old time friend visited us from out of town. She had been trained for voice-singing on stage for two years when she was a teenager. In our eyes she IS a music professional. She also have a daughter just begin to learn piano. I usually record a video for my son piano pieces every month. After watching my son's videos, my friend said that my son's pieces are way higher than his level. "He could not possible handle these pieces. The quality are very low." She suggest I should find another teacher to solidate the fundamental technics.

In the past year, my son was given pieces in RCM grade 3,4 and 5, at speed of one Sonatina every two weeks. From recently half year, the pieces ranged from RCM grade 4, 5, 6, and 7. My son can finish assignments with out any pain. But speaking of quality, I have no knowledge at all, I am totally rely on the teacher's comments.

My question is, from a piano teacher view, do you think my son need to change teacher to working on fundamental technics?
here is some videos from the recent four months. Sorry for the crappy video recorder. Any opinion will be highly appreciated.

(RCM7) Bach Invention #8, BWV 779 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13t5IA65qKk
(RCM4) Diabelli Op 168 No1. 1st mv https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I4BHyvEd7Q
(RCM4) Dennis Alexander Reflection https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbbOvhN9x_w
(RCM5) Clementi Op 36 No3 3rd mv https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1oFi895-Xg
(RCM6) kulau Op 55 No2, 1st mv https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGxf_IkE_ck
(RCM7) Clementi Op 36 No3 1st mv https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cd9-Mgq8jsY


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First of all, there are factual errors with what the "czerny teacher" was telling you. Many pianists have proceeded to professional careers without playing Czerny. I don't want to minimize the potential benefit from these exercises, but there are other series of exercises (Hanon, etc.) and one can also simply attack each challenge in the actual literature (however that may take longer).

I listened to several of the videos of your son playing. I think an important question is: how is his music reading? Prima vista sightreading?

There are things to be worked on in his playing, but that's part of the process of working with a good teacher. I would advise against running to another teacher. I would suggest simply having a conversation with his current teacher and express your concerns.


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Another thought:

Are the pieces higher than his level? Perhaps, but I don't think that can be determined without evaluating the student one on one.

That question is a valid concern.


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I think he's certainly equal to these pieces and he's doing a great job! smile

It does sound like he's spending only about a couple of weeks on each one. With more time on each piece, he'd have a chance to work on more exact evenness in the left hand, and more dynamic variation -- big differences between forte and piano, which would make the Clementi come alive, and dialogue between the hands which would do the same for Bach.

But some teachers like to emphasize note reading, learning repertoire quickly, and getting exposure to lots of different pieces while young. Your teacher might be one of these. That's perfectly fine.

Regarding your friend, I don't think you need to listen much to those comments. Highly trained musicians who have never taught often underestimate the difficulty of everything in the early learning stages. Ask her again after her daughter has been studying piano for a year or two wink


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I agree with Heather. I think he's doing great. And I would hardly qualify the quality as "very low." These aren't finely polished final performances, but it seems to me that his teacher, at this point, isn't going for that. He seems to be reading quite fluently and that is really important in the early years. And what's more he seems to be really enjoying himself. I would not change teachers again, but, if you have concerns, discuss them with his teacher.


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Why does this mom doubt herself so much that she is ready to sabotage little Theodore's relationship with his present piano teacher because of a few snarky comments from an alleged friend who had teenage voice lessons decades ago? It`s bizarre.

My advice: Ask Theo to learn "O Canada," so he can teach it to his folks. It's more interesting music than Clementi.


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Originally Posted by Deep Fish Piano
I was very worried that heavy duty exercise will ruin my son's interest in piano.


I am not a teacher and will let the teachers here perform assessments. As such, I did not listen to the recordings.

I am a student who started when I was a child (but probably older than your son is now!) and I haven't really ever stopped playing, though I haven't always had instruction as an adult, to my regret.

What I didn't glean from your post was what your aims were for your son and how your son relates to the piano.

If your aim is to permit him to explore and enjoy making music, even through adulthood, and to be able to see the benefits of continued study at a difficult subject, and if he is not upset and you are not unhappy, then I am not sure how this critique from your old friend helps accomplish this aim.


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Hi Deep Fish,

I watched a few of the videos you posted, and read about your concerns. And I have to agree with others who are saying that

YOUR SON IS DOING GREAT!

A 7-year old usually has no business playing that difficult Bach invention, let alone as well as your son did in a public recital. For girls, it's a very advanced piece. Boys usually develop later, as their coordination takes more time to mature. So you should feel very pleased with his progress, that he can play these difficult pieces at such a young age.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO DO RIGHT NOW:

...is to keep your son interested in playing. It doesn't matter what he plays, as long as he is interested in what he is doing. As someone who has taught talented young people and children for many years, I can say that the "technique" approach your singer friend and your son's first teacher suggested is very old-fashioned, and not useful. I myself do not use such an approach when working with talented young people. If they really want to learn to play, they will pick up those skills necessary to good playing along the way. Of course, technical studies and études are a part of it, but they should not be the whole focus of study. Most of these early études are so boring, such as Hanon and even some Czerny, that they will ruin anyone's interest in playing the piano if that is all they study. I never use them, as I said.

YOUR SON SOUNDS FINE!! DON'T FIX IT!!!

His playing is legato. It is even enough. It is very rhythmic. And that is much more than should ever be expected of any normal 7-year old. The rest he will pick up along the way, and a good teacher will make sure he does no matter what he plays.

ABOUT SINGERS:

I'm sure you respect your singer friend. But she is not a pianist, even if she is a trained musician, and knows nothing about how to play the piano. Until she is, you should not be accepting advice from her about the best way to train your son. So stop listening to her, because she doesn't know what she is talking about. When she learns to play the piano, then you can discuss it with her but not before.

ABOUT "TALENT":

Your son is very young, and obviously has a precocious talent. How much, nobody can say. That's why it's important to keep his interest alive, and to work with the best teachers you can find. There's no telling how this will turn out. But above all, the most important thing is that YOUR SON ENJOYS PLAYING!!! If you and he are happy with your teacher right now, stay there. Discuss your concerns with him. Try to trust him. But above all, don't go back to the old teacher. That will just not help because the old ways are not necessarily the best ways.

Good luck to you!

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Three questions:

1) Why do you write the RCM levels next the the pieces?

2) Why are you asking strangers for opinions?

3) Does your son's piano teacher know you're doing this?

I don't know about you, but if any of my students' parents do what you are doing, I would be extremely annoyed, and even angry. You have undermined the teacher's credibility.

Have some faith!!


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I am a teacher and I would not mind my student's parents asking questions about their child's progress at the piano. I wish my parents had a forum like this when I was young. I wasted a lot of time with bad training. I think your son is doing very well.

As far as your singer "friend" I think not only is she wrong she is rude to criticize your son's playing.

I have many students some play very well others do not practice much and therefore play poorly.

In my opinion the biggest issue is, is your son is enjoying playing the piano. Does he like his teacher? Does he practice willingly? Does he look forward to his lessons? If the answer to these questions is yes thenI believe you are on the right track. Because I think he is doing fine for his age.

Music is supposed to be enjoyable. Granted it is hard work and not always "fun". But kids have enough pressure. I am happy when my students are happy and look forward to coming to piano class. (which doesn't mean I am happy with students that don't practice, I am not, but I believe part of my job is motivating them to practice more).

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Your son looks delightful! He seems to enjoy performing, and can do so reliably.

He is doing very well for his age, and developing a nice sense of musicality.

The only thing I might suggest is: where are you? You obviously have access to grand pianos and probably are in an urban area. Is there any large music school/university/conservatory there? Have you considered whether or not the present teacher is associated with that (doesn't have to be to be good), and whether or not his current teacher might be agreeable to sharing him with another teacher? Someone really wonderful with children and teaching? Or if his goals in life might be such that he is just as well off with his present teacher.

I know many who as they grew up opted for wonderful careers in many professions, although they continue to play for themselves at a professional level which they achieved in their teens.


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Thanks for so many replies in one night. Thanks your help. This community is so warm.

Musicpassion,
I got your message. The current track is better than the first teacher.
Sight Reading ---- He can read and play fluently RCM level 2 songs immediately, and in second time playing he adds dynamics. He needs 1 hour to get ready to play RCM level 3 and 4 with both hands, with some dynamics. He needs 2 hours to play both hands on any piece that is RCM5 above. He sometimes made mistakes in reading, like forget about # or b once or twice per page. That worries me, because I can catch that mistake by hearing from kitchen --- the chord sounds obviously too weird when half step off. But he seems not bothered by the wrong key. 
Difficulty Level – Yes, I realized that so far the teacher is the person knows my son best, so I will leave the progress to his hand.

============================================================

hreichgott
Great thanks for detailed comments on each song.
(1) Evenness in the left hand. His teacher mentioned that his left hand is following the right hand, which should be vice-versa. He is fixing it whenever he found it.
(2) More difference between f and p in Clementi. The Kawanis judge mentioned that too. I will discuss this to the teacher.
(3) Left hand and right dialog in Bach. The song requires that left hand decrescendo while right hand crescendo, and then switch. My son did some but not smoothly nor naturally. He inserted accents all over the song trying to cover up that he could NOT decrescendo/crescendo properly, which turns a light weight merrily dance into a series of heavy stomps. The teacher tried to fix, finally gave up. He said that sometimes we have to wait for the boy to grow up. 

============================================================

Peter K. Mose
Theodore’s current teacher said he has a plan. We have to finish assignments diligently, or the plan will be messed up. At the same time, Theodore wants something easy to play for fun, but not let the teacher knows. If the teacher knows that Theodore still has some spare time, the teacher will double the assignments. So it is become my responsibility to search in internet “something fun“ and still within Theodore’s easy-definition. I tried O Canada. The left hand are chords of 1 octave. Theodore’s finger cannot reach 1 octave chord. I tried to substitute with a 5th chord, the song sounds not right; We tried to play the lower note only, but the song lost its “Soldier-Strength“ that he heard from school’s board-casting speaker.
I downloaded “Sound of Silence”. Theodore had some fun on it. Then it turned out my downloading was a guitar version.
I downloaded “Doe Rai Me” in movie Sound of Music, Theodore did not like it because “It has no variation”.
I downloaded “Entertainer”, Theodore likes it, but the song is way above him. We both end up with frustration.
I downloaded “Turkish march of Mozart”, turned out another mistake of mine. Theodore loves it, but he could not pass the left-hand decorations in the first page. I suggested to skip those decorations, He insisted to play them, because those are “flag in strong wind“. Another frustration.
I realized because I only know a few worldly famous songs. So the composers and players are worldly masters. There is no way for Theodore to play even close to that sound effect.
Now I use RCM level as a difficulty guideline when search internet for music pieces for fun.

============================================================

Whizbang

My aim is cultivate the passion. Hope nowadays training can lead to a life-time passion --- A passion like you have, play and enjoy music every day.
I saw kids (Yes, more than one) totally refuse to touch the piano after they finish the RCM 10 exam. Parents regret that they had pushed the kids too hard when they were young. So I am very caution on the speed.
On the other hand, I meet two kids that loves to play, The kids teach themselves to play up to RCM2, they play books of songs that are diluted version of songs. They even decline play dates or family vacation so that they can stay home and play their piano. But parents do not want to spend time/money on professional classes. After 5 or 6 years, they still not able to play one sonatina. Eventually they give up, because they think piano is boring.
I think the more technics a kids learn, the more easily s/he can express themselves. When kids grow up, their emotion needs more complicated songs than “Mary has a little lamb“, but they were not equipped with techniques to play the complicated songs. It is not the piano boring, it is the Baby musics for a teenager is boring.
For my son’s relation with piano. He likes to play all the songs that he chooses. he voluntarily spent weekends (more than 8 hours per day) try to digest these songs (most of them impossible for his level). But he only likes 25% songs from his assignments. We always have argument on spending time on teacher’s piece or on his piece of choice. Let him play his choice is a compromise. Or else he refuse to play teacher’s assignment.

My understand is that, passion is not a black-white thing. It has degrees. Every kid likes to play water in the pool. When ask them to swim 2000 meters every day. Most 7 year old will cry. When swimming 100 meters per day, most kids are able to keep up.
I think the training difficulty level is critical when cultivate the passion. Too difficult, kid lost passion in months. Too easy, kids will lost the passion eventually, and s/he misses the learning time-window of some techniques.
Every kid is unique in Training speed. However there are still valuable experiences from teachers, they gathered the statistics data from their students in decades of teaching. That is my purpose of the post, and thanks for everyone, I get clear answers.

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laguna_greg

Thanks for your complete reply covers every aspect. What else can a parent ask for more. That is informational for a parent like me. Thanks confirmation that he is on right track, and your encouragements. I saved them as my future check list.

============================================================
AZNpiano
1) Because I just found it is very useful guide line for me to download musics for fun playing. I made mistakes download songs that way higher than my son’s level. The fun turns to frustration. Now, I first found out RCM level of the teacher’s assignments for the week. Then assembly music pieces that are 2 level lower. Then let my son picks, he will get something he likes and well within his ability. I think put the level# here will be useful when the readers are not teachers.
For readers that are not teachers, I also appreciate their opinions. Teacher polishes a player, while in the end a player will serve the ordinary common people.
2) This is a teacher community. Teachers here are capable to make an assessment. And because teachers here do not know my son personally, they do not have expectation on him. Sometimes, a strong expectation will distort the assessment, sample, most parents (including me) will turn a blind eye on their kid’s weakness. They either did not realize the weakness exists, or they think the weakness too minor to mention. For my son’s teacher, he spent more than 1 year on this boy, there must be some emotional attachments.

3) I do not plan to tell him. Reason is just as you said --- you/he might be angry. I do notice that piano career people are sensitive --- sensitive both to music and to comments. I understand that EVERY teacher was a gifted child (1 in ten thousand maybe), and plus the rare talent, you non-stopped work hard for 20 years to chase perfectness. Most time in the 20 years, you are either alone or with one or two teachers. One Mistake on stage is viewed as disaster.
Myself is a software engineer. In software industry, no single person (not matter how talent s/he is, could achieve success alone). Every project is a team work. For every developer, we have 3 testers to catch the developer’s mistake. Mistakes are viewed as part of life, and processes have been established to minimize the mistakes. Is it possible to remove mistakes completely? Yes, only in theory. In order to remove the last 10% mistakes, we have to spend 80% human efforts, duration-time and money. So quality is always a balance/compromise among market requirements, budgets and personal arrangements. As the projects going, we are facing questions, challenges, negative comments from Technical, Markets, Financials and Human resources.
Though I have faith on everyone in the team to do their bests, I also know that everyone IS doing their bests WITH the constrain of his own. All team members get used to view all the question, discuss, review, feedback as part of projects. For my son’s teacher I will spare him of possible unhappiness, we are all aware, as above the growth path of a piano teacher and a software engineer are different, thus the mentality might be different.

============================================================
Doreen,

“I believe part of my job is motivating them to practice more“. You are a good teacher for sure. Half the time my son does not looking forward for the class. If He did not practice enough, He is old enough now to know that he did not practice enough. The teacher is not happy with that. I myself is looking forward for the classes. Every class the teacher plays to show my son’s mistakes, he will sing aloud along with the music piece. Like “Not too short here, sound like needle in your butt”, or “You are doing hiccups, or no, another hiccups”, or “Remember to bring your pedal stool next time”. He sings all the lines he wants to talk. And his singing words are so funny and contagious.

============================================================
LXXXVIIIdentes

We are in a middle sized city. There is a music college in the town. The teacher is a retiree (at my father's age) from that music college. I do not know “share a student“? Several students share a teacher. Never heard that “one student have several teachers“. My son has very small hands and double joints. His hand size equals to a 4-5 year old. He will not be competitive to be a professional player. I hope he might a composer. The current teacher is instilling concepts of harmony into him. I believe every teacher is giving his best to the students. So he will not deem his method is inadequate. Thus he will not think another teacher is necessary. That my guessing.

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Hi Deep Fish,

"Sharing a teacher" really means having your son take lessons from two teachers with both knowing about it.

Right now, that's a bad idea. First your son is too young to benefit from that much input. He really needs a single focus in his lessons, and will for a while.

Second, I can't think of any teacher I've ever known or studied with who would allow this arrangement unless they already had that kind of relationship with another teacher. Way too much professional competition and jealousy! For example, the head of the piano faculty at UCLA had two private assistant teachers when I was a kid who worked with his students outside of school. All new students had to study with those two teachers first, and make them happy, before they could have regular lessons with the "master teacher".

That kind of relationship is very rare, however, and your son is still too young to take advantage of it yet.

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One problem at a time:

Originally Posted by Deep Fish Piano
1) Because I just found it is very useful guide line for me to download musics for fun playing. I made mistakes download songs that way higher than my son’s level. The fun turns to frustration. Now, I first found out RCM level of the teacher’s assignments for the week. Then assembly music pieces that are 2 level lower. Then let my son picks, he will get something he likes and well within his ability. I think put the level# here will be useful when the readers are not teachers.
For readers that are not teachers, I also appreciate their opinions. Teacher polishes a player, while in the end a player will serve the ordinary common people.

Let me clarify something: There is no such thing as "levels" in piano music. Mozart and Chopin did not go out of their way to write "Level 8" music or "Level 4" music. The idea was fabricated by various teaching groups to divide the learning process into reasonable zones of progress.

In my experience, non-musician parents keep on using the term "level" as if it's a clear indication of some difficulty or ability. It's neither!

The teacher is your resource. Trust the teacher to make the appropriate repertoire recommendations.

Originally Posted by Deep Fish Piano
2) This is a teacher community. Teachers here are capable to make an assessment. And because teachers here do not know my son personally, they do not have expectation on him. Sometimes, a strong expectation will distort the assessment, sample, most parents (including me) will turn a blind eye on their kid’s weakness. They either did not realize the weakness exists, or they think the weakness too minor to mention. For my son’s teacher, he spent more than 1 year on this boy, there must be some emotional attachments.

If objectivity is your goal, then you should sign your son up for festivals, competitions, and exams. In the western world, public criticism of children is taboo. There were two recent threads on the other forum in which the father posted his daughter's playing online for the world to see. As soon as some posters (myself included) posted negative comments, other posters saw it as an attack on a child.

In other words, you are not going to get a truly objective comment in public.

Originally Posted by Deep Fish Piano
3) I do not plan to tell him. Reason is just as you said --- you/he might be angry. I do notice that piano career people are sensitive --- sensitive both to music and to comments. I understand that EVERY teacher was a gifted child (1 in ten thousand maybe), and plus the rare talent, you non-stopped work hard for 20 years to chase perfectness. Most time in the 20 years, you are either alone or with one or two teachers. One Mistake on stage is viewed as disaster.

Is this a joke? Your assumptions are full of errors, and so far removed from any semblance of reality. I'm not sure we live on the same planet.

Originally Posted by Deep Fish Piano
Myself is a software engineer. In software industry, no single person (not matter how talent s/he is, could achieve success alone). Every project is a team work. For every developer, we have 3 testers to catch the developer’s mistake. Mistakes are viewed as part of life, and processes have been established to minimize the mistakes. Is it possible to remove mistakes completely? Yes, only in theory. In order to remove the last 10% mistakes, we have to spend 80% human efforts, duration-time and money. So quality is always a balance/compromise among market requirements, budgets and personal arrangements. As the projects going, we are facing questions, challenges, negative comments from Technical, Markets, Financials and Human resources.
Though I have faith on everyone in the team to do their bests, I also know that everyone IS doing their bests WITH the constrain of his own. All team members get used to view all the question, discuss, review, feedback as part of projects. For my son’s teacher I will spare him of possible unhappiness, we are all aware, as above the growth path of a piano teacher and a software engineer are different, thus the mentality might be different.


What did I just read? crazy


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To be honest I think he's doing very well. He does seem to play quite heavily but I think that's pretty common with a child of his age, his teacher can and should try to work with him on producing a greater variation of sound (piano to forte) since his playing seems to mostly be around mf. However, I do think he is doing very well. It might help to have him listen to other people (online), especially professionals play the same pieces that he is playing to get a sense of the difference between the different dynamics and touch.

I wonder if his piano teacher is not spending much time to polish the pieces up to his maximum ability after he learns all the notes and basic dynamics. This could be because he wants to learn new music and has no patience to work on what he thinks he already knows, but sometimes it is quite important to spend the extra time to polish, phrase and really get that extra shine on the piece. In my limited view from watching the videos you posted, it seems that he would be able to play the pieces that he is playing even better by spending a few more weeks with each to work on dynamics, phrasing, etc.

The issue with doing RCM levels is that, in order to pass RCM levels, the player is required to be well rounded as a musician which means playing all genres of music. As a child that started piano at 4 years old, I disliked many of the pieces assigned to me as well, especially that from certain time periods such as contemporary or baroque. I could not connect with much of these two types of music for their lack of melody which I suppose to a child is quite important.

Over the years I've grown to enjoy other time periods but baroque and contemporary are still not my favourite even to this day.

I would like to clarify, is your son actually taking the RCM level tests with his teacher's help or he is simply learning different pieces of different RCM levels without taking the tests? The RCM levels have a lot of other requirements than just pieces, such as studies, scales, arpeggios, broken/solid chords, etc.

I suppose there's 2 ways to go about it.

1. Let your son enjoy playing the piano, let him play pieces he wants instead of pushing him through a system with lots of technical requirements that you said he does not enjoy. Let his teacher work with him on pieces he likes to a standard they are both satisfied with.

2. Go through the levels, and hope that he learns to enjoy or tolerate doing technical exercises and studies like Czerny by getting him to understand that it could help him progress to more difficult pieces and greater technical abilities. I'm not sure if this is necessary if you don't plan to have him become a professional or to compete/do a degree in music. Of course, learning pieces can help a player advance over time as well, but I'm not convinced a player could reach maximum technical ability without doing any technical exercises at all since most pieces will not target a specific movement/sequence/ability throughout the whole piece. Etudes and studies aside that is.

For myself, I was forced to play piano as a child, 1-2 hours a day, everyday and went through the RCM levels, local competitions, recitals and the whole thing. For the first few years I truly despised this aspect of my life. But after a while as I began to understand the music more, and to connect with it, I ended up enjoying playing piano. In fact, I had stopped for 7 years in the middle due to college and work but just last year decided to go back to it and to finish my RCM levels like ARCT and LRSM and potentially get a music degree. I suppose the levels are not really important but I wanted to know how much technical ability I was/will be able to achieve by measuring myself against these standardized tests.

So what I'm trying to say is, sometimes a little parental pressure to get younger children to plays they don't like, don't always end badly. At least it didn't in my case. I think many professional pianists as children had to go through phases of not wanting to practice/or not wanting to practice what they are assigned. I'm not saying you should do this, I'm just saying it does happen. It really depends on your and his goals at the end of the day.

Also, don't worry about his small hand size. I've known quite a few boys to suddenly sprout and have much larger hands at 11 or 12 years old compared to 7!

In addition, have you tried Disney music with your son? These were my favourite pieces to play as a child and even today! Most of the popular disney movies such as Lion King, Frozen, Beauty and the Beast, etc have piano books arranged with the pieces. You can often find them in an easy version and a regular version too that might be of interest.

I don't know where you're located but I'm under the impression that you're in Canada (I thought I read it somewhere?? not sure). If you're in Vancouver, I can recommend you some resources.

Edit: I wanted to add that there's nothing wrong with his fundamental technique in response to your thread title.

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I agree that your son is doing very well. As he grows he will gain more control for nuance and expression, but for his age, you should be proud. Also, while I am not fond of doing lots of technical exercises, I do realize that there are some people who actually love these.

Why not try them out with his teacher and then respond according to how your son reacts to them? If he hates them, ask your teacher if you can split the time spent on them with also playing fun pieces. Your son is too young to be able to voice his opinions about things, and this is where the parent must step in. If you say it respectfully, there is no reason for them to get upset. When a parent refuses to do something I suggest without even trying it first, well, then they have a reason to get annoyed.

Also, as a voice and piano teacher, I can tell you that your friend is not a professional. She would have to play piano professionally to be someone possibly worth listening to. It's so easy to criticize and say "They're playing something that's way to hard for them." More likely than not, she was jealous and thinks her daughter should be farther along than she is. Whatever the reason, they're not an authority you should listen to. Your son's teacher, however is.


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Originally Posted by Michiyo-Fir
I wonder if his piano teacher is not spending much time to polish the pieces up to his maximum ability after he learns all the notes and basic dynamics. This could be because he wants to learn new music and has no patience to work on what he thinks he already knows, but sometimes it is quite important to spend the extra time to polish, phrase and really get that extra shine on the piece. ....

Several things bother me in this post.

First, if the child is being assigned this material for that length of time, this reflects the choice of the teacher, and not the attitude of the child. Secondly, the teacher probably has reasons for what he is doing. Producing final polished pieces may not be the purpose. In fact, what would be the purpose of producing polished pieces? Is the child a performer who will present this to an audience, or is he a student who is acquiring skills along the path that his teacher has set out for him?

And then the post continues will suggestions for the parent to try, as though the parent were the teacher trying to figure out how to teach this child - when in fact there is a teacher present. There is already a problem because some friend who studied a different instrument (voice) decided to sow doubt on what the teacher was doing with the student, when that friend has no expertise in the area. And now there is more advice. To me what makes sense is for the OP to consult the teacher with any concerns. I'm sure that the teacher would love to hear the criticism of his teaching given by a lay person, which undermined the confidence of the parents, so that he has the opportunity to reassure the parent with his professional advice. Who knows this child better as a student than his teacher?

Or as stated by another teacher in this forum:
Originally Posted by Morodiene
Whatever the reason, they're not an authority you should listen to. Your son's teacher, however is.

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. . . Both my son and I have been happy with this new teacher for 1.5 year now. He did not give any piece from Czerny and Bayer. All assignments are beautiful minuets and sonatinas.


FWIW (I don't teach, and I am coming back to piano-playing after a gap of many years) --

The most important thing -- for a child or an adult -- is the _music_. Not the scales, or studies, or technical development.

. . . Playing beautiful minuets and sonatinas is "food for the soul",
. . . even if they are not perfect.

If your son enjoys his lessons, and (at least sometimes!) even enjoys practicing for them --

. . . do not switch teachers !

You are very lucky!

You have several experienced teachers here, saying:

. . . "He's doing very well, leave things as they are."

I would take that advice. It is far better to have a child who is happy playing the piano, than a child who is unhappy, but plays a little better.




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If your son is happy and enjoying his lessons, has interest in them and likes practising I don't see a problem.

Just like children have undeveloped fine motor skills, hand writing, verbal skills, drawing skills etc. the same goes for playing music.
He will bring these pieces to a "grown up" level later.

Your might view your friend as a music professional but do you see her as a professional in teaching music to children below the age of 10?

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Just my two cents. It seems like your son is doing very well. Perhaps he could spend longer polishing pieces, but at his age there is something to be said for being exposed to different music as well. I would suggest you keep him engaged with music over the course of several years instead of worrying too much about one particular piece.

If he has a teacher who is emphasizing listening and slowly training his technique, theory and ear he is on the right track. I also agree with previous posters about the idea of levels...I would not worry too much about the level if the teacher is making decent decisions.


Matt McLaughlin
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