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Re: To those who think they need a great piano to progress ... [Re: KurtZ] #2502109
01/20/16 06:12 AM
01/20/16 06:12 AM
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Posts: 3,965
Bulgaria
PhilipInChina Offline
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Originally Posted by KurtZ
Originally Posted by PhilipInChina
Best pianist I know used to practice on a cardboard template her father made for her, as they couldn't afford a piano.

Slowest learner I know, who really ought to give up, owns 2 C Bechsteins and a 9' Bluthner!



"Hello everyone, My name is Kurt and I admit that I too am hopeless on the piano but with your support and the support of my sponsor, I'm making it day by day..."



You lost me there!


Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
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Re: To those who think they need a great piano to progress ... [Re: swampwiz] #2502130
01/20/16 08:48 AM
01/20/16 08:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,650
Georgia, USA
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Originally Posted by PhilipInChina
You lost me there!

I think it's called sarcasm, or perhaps satire, or is it metaphor, or parallelism? smile

Either way, I think it is a reference to the player's perceived motives for playing a PSO in the video, when he has access to much better. But I'm just speculating.

Rick



Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: To those who think they need a great piano to progress ... [Re: swampwiz] #2502147
01/20/16 10:25 AM
01/20/16 10:25 AM
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If you believe the tag under the video- the kid was just playing at a Salvation Army store- and a random shopper took notice and shot the video. My guess is that the kid was bored (probably waiting for his parents) and that's why he chose to play it.


Yamaha G2
Re: To those who think they need a great piano to progress ... [Re: pianoMom2006] #2502157
01/20/16 10:57 AM
01/20/16 10:57 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,751
Hobart, Australia
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Originally Posted by pianoMom2006
If you believe the tag under the video- the kid was just playing at a Salvation Army store- and a random shopper took notice and shot the video. My guess is that the kid was bored (probably waiting for his parents) and that's why he chose to play it.


Totally this.

People are entering fantasy mode with speculation of whether he has a proper piano to practice on! Of course he has a proper piano at home - probably has a darn good teacher too. He's a performer - look at how he frequently looks around to see if people are noticing how well he can play! What this video shows is a talented kid who found a piano to sit at which is sufficiently functioning to play music on - it's not a rags to riches tale of triumph over adversity.


Re: To those who think they need a great piano to progress ... [Re: GB Piano Lover] #2502164
01/20/16 11:17 AM
01/20/16 11:17 AM
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Posts: 347
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Originally Posted by GB Piano Lover
I thought I was familiar with who he was when I saw the video. He is on youtube, and compared a Hamburg Steinway to a Baldwin Concert Grand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyaOc0nVaa0

If I am mistaken, please forgive me, I am truly sorry.
I agree, I've watched a few of his videos and have enjoyed them.

Re: To those who think they need a great piano to progress ... [Re: PhilipInChina] #2502184
01/20/16 12:35 PM
01/20/16 12:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,821
The Heart of Screenland
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The Heart of Screenland
Originally Posted by PhilipInChina
Originally Posted by KurtZ
Originally Posted by PhilipInChina
Best pianist I know used to practice on a cardboard template her father made for her, as they couldn't afford a piano.

Slowest learner I know, who really ought to give up, owns 2 C Bechsteins and a 9' Bluthner!



"Hello everyone, My name is Kurt and I admit that I too am hopeless on the piano but with your support and the support of my sponsor, I'm making it day by day..."





You lost me there!


Sorry Phillip. It was an attempt at humour. I believed that you were referring to yourself as a terminally slow learner. I find myself in that same group so I alluded to an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting where every person starts their story with, "My name is XXXXXXXX and I'm an alcoholic." AA members have sponsors from whom they get peer to peer counseling and "One day at a time" is a common mantra.

No attempt to make fun of you even at your expense was implied. In these days and times I should also add that I was also not trying to trivialize alcoholism. It took both my parents, my father when I was 15. Its seriousness as a disease is not lost on me.

Humour and the internet. After 20 years online, I should have known better.

regards,

Kurt



**********************************************************************************************************
Co-owner (by marriage) and part time customer service rep at an electronic musical equipment repair shop.
Re: To those who think they need a great piano to progress ... [Re: swampwiz] #2502210
01/20/16 02:36 PM
01/20/16 02:36 PM
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France
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I think it unreasonable to ask anybody to learn on a piano with fewer than 97 keys. And three pedals.

Re: To those who think they need a great piano to progress ... [Re: swampwiz] #2502227
01/20/16 03:35 PM
01/20/16 03:35 PM
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England
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That is fabulous! Beethoven would be pleased!


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Re: To those who think they need a great piano to progress ... [Re: swampwiz] #2502278
01/20/16 06:23 PM
01/20/16 06:23 PM
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It's a good idea to play at least a little on every piano you can get permission to play. The player here is getting some experience in adapting to different pianos, which is always a good thing.



-- J.S.

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Re: To those who think they need a great piano to progress ... [Re: KurtZ] #2502318
01/20/16 08:30 PM
01/20/16 08:30 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,965
Bulgaria
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Bulgaria
OK, now I understand. Without the AA background you can see, it was incomprehensible.

Yes, of course I was referring to myself.

I genuinely do think that having a good piano on which to practice has helped keep me motivated. Of course those who have immense motivation will make it on anything!


Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
Re: To those who think they need a great piano to progress ... [Re: JohnSprung] #2502319
01/20/16 08:32 PM
01/20/16 08:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 635
Arkansas
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David



Re: To those who think they need a great piano to progress ... [Re: swampwiz] #2502322
01/20/16 08:43 PM
01/20/16 08:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,650
Georgia, USA
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Having a nice piano to play is indeed a blessing...

Most of my family, friends, and coworkers, do not own a piano. My wife's sister is constantly trying to buy one of my pianos, at a big discount, of course. smile

She will say things like, "if you decide to sell it, give me the first opportunity". Thing is, I sold one of baby grand pianos a few years ago and gave her the first opportunity to buy it. She said to let her think about it and see if she could make room in her house. Needless to say, I sold it to someone else due to her inability to make up her mind. (I hope she doesn't read this post smile )

Also, pianos can be nice pieces of furniture, whether the owner plays or not.

As far as my progress on the piano? Well, slow and unconventional, but still a lot of fun. smile

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: To those who think they need a great piano to progress ... [Re: swampwiz] #2508744
02/09/16 02:02 PM
02/09/16 02:02 PM
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Posts: 622
Coastal Mississippi
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Coastal Mississippi
Have you seen your old Tokai after it was re-homed? Molly was wondering.


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Re: To those who think they need a great piano to progress ... [Re: swampwiz] #2510867
02/15/16 12:10 PM
02/15/16 12:10 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 12
Westerm MA
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I don't know what it takes to become a real pianist. I'm probably the guy who should quit for sure. I started playing again at 44. I have not improved much in solid two-plus years. I do try and do enjoy practice. I'm figuring some of P. Keveren's pieces this year, Chim Chim cher-ee next. That level, and only sometimes when I play.

Hours of practice are simply not possible with 11 year old children growing up and other competing factors such as work, hiking, hockey, etc. But general commitment is there, and stopping lessons and stopping playing is not even on my mind. I like it.

I am fortunate to have learned to play on a Wurly spinet with broken sound board. My instructor referred to it as no longer an instrument, but a Piano Shaped Object (PSO) closing in fast on becoming a book self and scrap iron. He was gratious, kind, and never condescending towards my family and me, but warmly judged the piano as having served its purpose. It was my first recognition that people have relationships with their instruments, even sometimes other people's instruments.

I am also fortunate that I can and could purchase an expensive grand and enjoy it (but I'd have to sleep in it as my wife does not value $$$ pianos). And I'd have to wear headphones/earplugs to play as they are damned powerful. What I have is basically a 6 mo old, hardly ever used Cable Nelson 45 Upright (excuse me, Vertical) with a laminated soundboard. Well action is OK, it is an upright. Bright, getting brighter. It doesn't mind dog hair or the wood stove, never judges my playing, lets my kinds beat on it, and looks good (Polished Enamel, black, matches everything so wife likes it). I love it!!!

My point is.....I am tired of piano oracles of every variety, some more than others, telling me I am less of a human being because I have an Indonesian manufactured, designed by Yamaha, stencil vertical PSO. It has not hurt my kids progress, damaged my ears, etc, or ruined me socially (although a member at my country club and a serious pianist, piano professional, and purveyor of wisdom has pressured me to upgrade and gently humiliated my instrument with subtle put downs to the point of me curtly dismissing him. Nauseating, arrogant, and immediately put-off-ish. Nice man until his salesman mode kicks in, and than....

So I will finish with this. I really enjoy piano world. I love the info, etc. I actually feel like some of the posters are friends. But real acoustic instruments are as varied as pond hockey players vs organized sports players, or public vs privately manicured golf courses. And one may be preferred by many over another. But if I am out with the pretty Mrs and friends and walk by a piano in a public place (odd how a bar always comes to mind), I cannot pass up the chance to rattle off a ditty or two, a cute version of Beauty and the Beast, perhaps a jazzy version of putting on the Ritz, my "rendition" of Fur Elise, blues anything, I feel lucky for that old wurly.
If I stumble across a grand such as at a high school, wedding, etc., well, why not a poorly executed Chopin Waltz in A minor, or fur elise, etc., I feel lucky again for that Wurly.

Off course, if one wanted to compete in a competitive classical piano contest, well, perhaps you should start to practice a few years in advance on at least Kawai or schimmel "level and quality" grands, and work up. But to get there, to the point of picking your goal with piano, the initial piano or two you go thru, there is something to learn from each. Just like a golfer hitting practice balls, the practice field isn't all that impt till you are good enough to work on greens and sand. Different!


Too many sheet music titles I'll never play, but I keep adding to the pile!

Formal lessons (6 Ft SCHIMMEL Grand), intermediate
Cable Nelson Vertical (CN 116), Casio PX360, Technics, Pianoteq
Re: To those who think they need a great piano to progress ... [Re: swampwiz] #2510876
02/15/16 12:35 PM
02/15/16 12:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,047
Northern VA, U.S.
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Is the title to this thread a red herring?

Can someone point me to even one post anyone has ever made at PianoWorld in which the poster seriously contends that one NEEDS a great piano to progress?

Obviously, many or most of us admire and desire better pianos than we have, and many of us believe that a piano that doesn't meet at least a low threshhold of mechanical and sonic function will impede progress...

But who, really, has contended that progress is impossible without a "great" piano?


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"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins
Re: To those who think they need a great piano to progress ... [Re: ClsscLib] #2510889
02/15/16 12:58 PM
02/15/16 12:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,129
Houston, TX
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Originally Posted by ClsscLib

But who, really, has contended that progress is impossible without a "great" piano?


As personal note I would say that without any metric, it's impossible to do a balanced (or intelligent) discussion that doesn't end up in a flame for fanboys.

what is progress and how it is measured?
what is considered as acceptable results?
what is considered a great piano?
what is considered an "acceptable" piano?

And this is absolutely excluding the talent of the student / teacher combination.

You can get a totally untalented person on the best piano and there will be absolutely no progress
You can probably get the most talented person on the worst POS and you still have some progress...

I think this interview is quite interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCzabFlmIlQ




Private Piano Teacher. MTNA
working on:
Albeniz: Iberia
Beethoven: Op 53
Bartok: Mikrokosmos vol. 5
Debussy: Estampes
Moszkowski: Op 72
Re: To those who think they need a great piano to progress ... [Re: swampwiz] #2510917
02/15/16 02:32 PM
02/15/16 02:32 PM
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I loved reading this.

My parents bought a used Estey grand piano when they first married back in the 1960s. They adored that piano and it was (and still is) a major feature in our home. They loved it so much, they paid movers to haul it from Ohio to California when we had to relocate. That piano is as much a part of our family as the dogs we've had — maybe just as mangy in sound when played, but what do we know? It's a beautiful piano that sounds like a piano when played and has made us happy for decades.

And now that I'm finally getting serious about buying my first piano, my finances won't allow for anything other than something old and in rather dourly condition. But I'm 45 years old. How much longer must I wait while I allow myself to buy into the thinking that I should hold off until I can afford a better piano? What's better for someone who intends to play to an audience of cats and dogs?

When a string breaks, I'll have a new challenge to tackle, for sure. But that's my broken string to repair and my piano and what a frustrating but wonderful chore I'll have of saving up for the repair and figuring out how to do it myself. You can get fancy and treat yourself to a brag worthy piano. But the rest of us are denizens of Planet Financially Strapped, and yet we deserve music in our homes just as much as anyone else.

If a dourly old piano accomplishes that for us, then that should be respected. To make parents who come to these forums feel like lesser people because they can only afford to spend $500 on a piano is crude. Educate and guide us, but be discerning. Piano snobbery has its place, but not at the expense of shaming people into spending more money than they can reasonably afford and that doesn't make sense for where they are right now.

Right now I am broke. I was broke yesterday and the decades before yesterday, and I foresee a financially bleak future ahead of me. But by gosh I'm bringing home a piano, and for me it's going to be the happiest decision I will have ever made for myself, broken strings and chipped keys and all.

Re: To those who think they need a great piano to progress ... [Re: Coyotewoods] #2510926
02/15/16 03:12 PM
02/15/16 03:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,129
Houston, TX
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Originally Posted by CoyoteWoods

Piano snobbery has its place, but not at the expense of shaming people into spending more money than they can reasonably afford and that doesn't make sense for where they are right now.
Right now I am broke. I was broke yesterday and the decades before yesterday, and I foresee a financially bleak future ahead of me. But by gosh I'm bringing home a piano, and for me it's going to be the happiest decision I will have ever made for myself, broken strings and chipped keys and all.

1) Guys plays the 3rd movement of the "moonlight" on a piece of crap spinet and the discussion starts about how such piece of crap can still be used for progress
2) Apparently the guy practices on a 7 foot Baldwin and not on pieces of crap
3) Discussions about the sex of the angels start appearing.

Learning piano to the point of playing the whole moonlight sonata is an expensive activity.
It takes year of lessons (several thousands of dollars), books, time and at least a decent instrument.

There is no snobbery or shaming about it, but harsh reality.

I would love to drive a 911 turbo convertible every day.... I simply can't.



Private Piano Teacher. MTNA
working on:
Albeniz: Iberia
Beethoven: Op 53
Bartok: Mikrokosmos vol. 5
Debussy: Estampes
Moszkowski: Op 72
Re: To those who think they need a great piano to progress ... [Re: swampwiz] #2514412
02/24/16 02:14 PM
02/24/16 02:14 PM
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Posts: 461
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I have the best piano I can afford, and there's no reason I can't master a very technical piece that alludes most pianists, practising on this piano alone.

It may not sound too pretty, but unless it catches on fire like Beaker's violin in the Muppet's Ode to Joy video I posted, it should do just fine.

And someday I'll even play it on a huge old upright I intend to rescue from the landfill and put under some oaks at the back of my property, right next to the trailhead that leads down to a seasonal creek. Mice and frogs may take up residence in that piano, but I'll hammer some complicated tunes out of that one, too, someday.

It's just a matter of how you define "best piano" and "good progress."

By the way, the piano garden is getting a handmade sign, and it's going to say: Carnegie Hall.

Re: To those who think they need a great piano to progress ... [Re: swampwiz] #2514741
02/25/16 01:51 PM
02/25/16 01:51 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 635
Manila
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MooseNotes, have you considered a digital piano? You might have your heart set an acoustic, but technology is steadily improving so maybe you should give it a try. For example, a Casio PX-160 is well-reviewed, does not require tuning, is likely to not have a broken string (or broken part) for the next few years, and costs less than $500. I think it would be a better alternative to an acoustic piano that sounds like it's going to fall apart any second.

But anyway, I do agree that a skilled player can make any instrument sound great. That's my experience with my other instrument, ukulele. I have an entry-level one that is decent for the money. It sounds absolutely great when my teacher plays it, and when I'm lucky I can make it sound nice, too. It just takes a whole lot more effort because of the high action and buzzing strings. I've tried the other (more expensive) ukuleles and the ease of playability is a night and day difference.


Working on: Schumann Album for the Young, Clementi Op 36 No. 1 (all movements), Various Bach, Czerny 599
+ CASIO PX-720 and PX-730 +
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