Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

What's Hot!!
Welcome PianoTV members!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Fall 2017
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


Who's Online Now
157 registered members (Akash, akc42, Adypiano, accordeur, 28 invisible), 1,389 guests, and 2 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#2503951 - 01/25/16 08:54 PM 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8"  
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1
RodneyH Offline
Junior Member
RodneyH  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1
I am interested in any feed back or thoughts on a 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand that measures 5'8"". The piano has been regularly maintained for the last 5 years by a very reputable technician. I have spoken to him and he told me that the piano is in excellent condition having had a very good restoration in the past date unknown. The sound board I am told is near perfect as is the finish. The individual selling the instrument is asking $2500. I am going to take a look this Friday. I have done a good bit of research about this instrument but I am by no means an expert and would welcome any thoughts or advice. Thanks.

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2504090 - 01/26/16 07:14 AM Re: 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8" [Re: RodneyH]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,834
Rich Galassini Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rich Galassini  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,834
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Originally Posted by RodneyH
I am interested in any feed back or thoughts on a 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand that measures 5'8"". The piano has been regularly maintained for the last 5 years by a very reputable technician. I have spoken to him and he told me that the piano is in excellent condition having had a very good restoration in the past date unknown. The sound board I am told is near perfect as is the finish. The individual selling the instrument is asking $2500. I am going to take a look this Friday. I have done a good bit of research about this instrument but I am by no means an expert and would welcome any thoughts or advice. Thanks.


Right away, please know that no matter the present condition, the piano likely needs work - a lot of work.

This is because all fine pianos were/are designed to fail. Their basic design of downbearing will eventually lead to the belly (or soundboard) of the piano to need replacing. Additionally action parts wear because they are made with organic material.

There were more than one quality of Kurtzmann piano as well over time.

My best advice would be to hire an independent technician to examine the piano for you.

Good luck and keep us posted,


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Check out the Science Channel's "How Its Made" featuring our piano restoration:
http://www.cunninghampiano.com/how-its-made/
#2504119 - 01/26/16 08:51 AM Re: 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8" [Re: Rich Galassini]  
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 558
Guapo Gabacho Offline
500 Post Club Member
Guapo Gabacho  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 558
Rio Grande Valley of Texas
Originally Posted by Rich Galassini
This is because all fine pianos were/are designed to fail.


Really?

#2504131 - 01/26/16 09:23 AM Re: 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8" [Re: RodneyH]  
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 558
Guapo Gabacho Offline
500 Post Club Member
Guapo Gabacho  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 558
Rio Grande Valley of Texas
Did the designers of the Cunningham piano design them to fail too or are we only talking about fine pianos?

(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#2504133 - 01/26/16 09:31 AM Re: 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8" [Re: Guapo Gabacho]  
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 772
Karl Watson Offline
500 Post Club Member
Karl Watson  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 772
SNARKY, SNARKY, SNARKY !

Are you trying create ill-will ? Have you EVER known Rich to write, say or do ANYTHING that was not genuine and to the point ?

I'm sure you know and understand very well just exactly what Rich intended when he wrote "designed to fail."

Members like Rich deserve the respect of the forum. We are all in their debt.

Karl Watson,
Staten Island, NY

#2504147 - 01/26/16 10:18 AM Re: 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8" [Re: RodneyH]  
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 558
Guapo Gabacho Offline
500 Post Club Member
Guapo Gabacho  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 558
Rio Grande Valley of Texas
Would there not have been a better way of saying what you think he meant?

Pianos no matter their quality, by their design, will fail.

What he wrote is outlandish.


#2504164 - 01/26/16 11:08 AM Re: 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8" [Re: Guapo Gabacho]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,834
Rich Galassini Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rich Galassini  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,834
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Originally Posted by Guapo Gabacho
Would there not have been a better way of saying what you think he meant?

Pianos no matter their quality, by their design, will fail.

What he wrote is outlandish.



Dear Guapo,

I was writing for a layperson/newbie (as the OP obviously is). First of all, of course a Cunningham will fail.

Secondly, when I make a statement like that about how pianos age, the first response from most newbies is, "Even a Steinway (or insert Bosendorfer, Mason & Hamlin, or your preference)?"

My point was that ALL pianos fail. I am so sorry you found it outlandish. But it is truth. Frankly, I am surprised at your reaction.

I guess you can't please all of the people all of the time. smile Oh well.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Check out the Science Channel's "How Its Made" featuring our piano restoration:
http://www.cunninghampiano.com/how-its-made/
#2504631 - 01/27/16 01:59 PM Re: 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8" [Re: RodneyH]  
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,264
Pianolance Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Pianolance  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,264
Nashville, TN
That being said, a Kurtzmann piano was considered a good piano back in the day. I played one with a similar vintage that hadn't been restored but it played beautifully and was a nice sounding piano - even in its relatively poor condition.


Knabe 5'2" Louis XV Walnut circa 1927
Very part time piano broker.
#2504645 - 01/27/16 03:16 PM Re: 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8" [Re: RodneyH]  
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,436
Rickster Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rickster  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,436
Georgia, USA
Well, I have changed my mind a bit about old vs. new(er); some older pianos retain a nice tone, play well and look well even after the ravages of time in years. On the other had, I've come to the conclusion, based on my own experiences, that newer is (usually) better, but there are exceptions.

For example, I'm older but still good looking... grin (just kidding; no I'm not laugh ).

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
#2504697 - 01/27/16 06:36 PM Re: 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8" [Re: RodneyH]  
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,565
Retsacnal Online content

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
Retsacnal  Online Content

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015


Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,565
🎹
Here's a video of someone playing and singing the praises of a Kurtzman of about the same size and vintage:

http://livingpianos.com/pianos/kurtzmann-grand-piano-50194/

Here's an archived post from 1999 that lists "good pianos" of various makes (Kurtzmann is in the list):

http://www.pianoworld.com/brand_opinion.htm

And, from the same member, here's a list of "list some of the better names of 'Golden Age' American piano makers" (and Kurtzmann is also in the list):

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...6/topic/000029/Number/0/site_id/1#import

I believe there were more than 1500 piano makers in that era, so the fact that this name has stood the test of time, and makes this short list of 50 or so, seems significant to me.



(Thanks to Rickster for posting a link to the historical post above a while back; otherwise I'd probably never have seen it)


I M A G I N A T I O N is more important than knowledge -Albert Einstein
#2504701 - 01/27/16 06:42 PM Re: 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8" [Re: RodneyH]  
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,565
Retsacnal Online content

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
Retsacnal  Online Content

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015


Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,565
🎹
P.S. My experience in the last few years is that "golden age" grands that are in reasonable condition, sold by private parties (i.e. no warranty or reconditioning/rebuilding/etc), generally have asking prices between one and two thousand dollars, sometimes higher, sometimes free. Your mileage may vary, based on your local market. The main exception is that Steinway "cores" tend to retain a higher value, based on the market for rebuilt Steinways.


I M A G I N A T I O N is more important than knowledge -Albert Einstein
#2504787 - 01/28/16 12:06 AM Re: 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8" [Re: Retsacnal]  
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 772
Karl Watson Offline
500 Post Club Member
Karl Watson  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 772
Good points all, Ret.

I remember once playing an old Bluthner grand, about 190cm, in a warehouse in the Bronx. It must have been made around the turn of the last century. I don't think that it had been tampered with in any way. That piano had a kind-of magic, although very faded, that called out to one, and its tone and action proclaimed its aristocratic pedigree. I had a chance to buy it but declined, thinking that it might turn out to be a money pit. Was it a missed opportunity ? I don't know but I still think of that piano.

Karl Watson,
Staten Island, NY

#2507046 - 02/04/16 12:18 AM Re: 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8" [Re: Rich Galassini]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,073
musicpassion Offline
2000 Post Club Member
musicpassion  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,073
California, USA
Originally Posted by Rich Galassini
Originally Posted by RodneyH
I am interested in any feed back or thoughts on a 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand that measures 5'8"". The piano has been regularly maintained for the last 5 years by a very reputable technician. I have spoken to him and he told me that the piano is in excellent condition having had a very good restoration in the past date unknown. The sound board I am told is near perfect as is the finish. The individual selling the instrument is asking $2500. I am going to take a look this Friday. I have done a good bit of research about this instrument but I am by no means an expert and would welcome any thoughts or advice. Thanks.


Right away, please know that no matter the present condition, the piano likely needs work - a lot of work.

This is because all fine pianos were/are designed to fail. Their basic design of downbearing will eventually lead to the belly (or soundboard) of the piano to need replacing. Additionally action parts wear because they are made with organic material.

There were more than one quality of Kurtzmann piano as well over time.

My best advice would be to hire an independent technician to examine the piano for you.

Good luck and keep us posted,
Rich, I understand what you're saying and I think you expressed it just fine.

However some pianos seem to have soundboards that stand the test of time. I've played enough original boards from the 1900s - 1930s that were breathtaking... glorious... to conclude it is possible.

Of course the hammers, strings, bridges, and action work is a different story.


Pianist and Piano Teacher
#2507065 - 02/04/16 03:18 AM Re: 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8" [Re: RodneyH]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,346
pianobroker Offline
4000 Post Club Member
pianobroker  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,346
North Hollywood CA.
That Kurtzman grand is a pretty decent piano as for it's structural build. Fully restored it would be a fine example of a quality vintage American piano. That grand is a cosmetic copy of the Steinway M. I believe it was 5'7". We've restored a few over the years and they came out good. They only look like a Steinway M and don't share any similarity as for scale design or ?. They don't have duplex scale bars and they don't resemble any similarity to Steinway's action design parts wise etc. The thing is, it costs the same $ to fully restore this piano as for a Steinway M so....be prepared for an analogous $ cost estimate for any restorative work now or down the road. As a rebuildable spec piano I would not consider rebuilding one for sale because the restoration cost exceeds it's realistic selling price. If the piano has not had any recent salvageable quality restorative work done, it really has no "as is" value. Probably not what you wanted to hear, but I tell it the way it is. If it was grandma's piano persons have no problem paying restoring a family heirloom because they have no intention of ever selling it in the future.


www.pastperfectpiano.com
Largest selection in the USA
100+Steinway and M&H grands
Warehouse showroom Onsite Restoration
Preowned & Restored
Hailun dlr.818-255-3145
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z8RvhXGKzY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voo0zumHGgE

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
CLEARANCE SPECIALS!
Save Big In our online store now

In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
SummerKeys
Maine Coast Music Vacation for Adults
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Pearl River Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
New Topics - Multiple Forums
PA System for Small/Medium gigs
by upbeat. 01/22/18 02:45 PM
The harpejji
by guyl. 01/22/18 12:31 PM
Loose Tuning pins already pounded down. Suggestions?
by Piano Danno. 01/22/18 12:15 PM
Problem with string acting erratically
by w_scott_iv@yahoo. 01/22/18 11:51 AM
Charles Walter Needs Special Action-Removal Tool? Huh?
by SonatainfSharp. 01/22/18 10:53 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics183,914
Posts2,689,536
Members89,492
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0