Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
How It All Really Began
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


Who's Online Now
91 registered members (akc42, Alexander Borro, abarax, anamnesis, AnalogJeff, 24 invisible), 1,322 guests, and 6 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8" #2503951
01/25/16 09:54 PM
01/25/16 09:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1
R
RodneyH Offline OP
Junior Member
RodneyH  Offline OP
Junior Member
R
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1
I am interested in any feed back or thoughts on a 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand that measures 5'8"". The piano has been regularly maintained for the last 5 years by a very reputable technician. I have spoken to him and he told me that the piano is in excellent condition having had a very good restoration in the past date unknown. The sound board I am told is near perfect as is the finish. The individual selling the instrument is asking $2500. I am going to take a look this Friday. I have done a good bit of research about this instrument but I am by no means an expert and would welcome any thoughts or advice. Thanks.

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8" [Re: RodneyH] #2504090
01/26/16 08:14 AM
01/26/16 08:14 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,985
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Rich Galassini Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Rich Galassini  Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,985
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Originally Posted by RodneyH
I am interested in any feed back or thoughts on a 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand that measures 5'8"". The piano has been regularly maintained for the last 5 years by a very reputable technician. I have spoken to him and he told me that the piano is in excellent condition having had a very good restoration in the past date unknown. The sound board I am told is near perfect as is the finish. The individual selling the instrument is asking $2500. I am going to take a look this Friday. I have done a good bit of research about this instrument but I am by no means an expert and would welcome any thoughts or advice. Thanks.


Right away, please know that no matter the present condition, the piano likely needs work - a lot of work.

This is because all fine pianos were/are designed to fail. Their basic design of downbearing will eventually lead to the belly (or soundboard) of the piano to need replacing. Additionally action parts wear because they are made with organic material.

There were more than one quality of Kurtzmann piano as well over time.

My best advice would be to hire an independent technician to examine the piano for you.

Good luck and keep us posted,


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Subscribe to our YouTube channel for great content every week:
https://www.youtube.com/user/CunninghamPiano
Re: 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8" [Re: Rich Galassini] #2504119
01/26/16 09:51 AM
01/26/16 09:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 558
Rio Grande Valley of Texas
Guapo Gabacho Offline
500 Post Club Member
Guapo Gabacho  Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 558
Rio Grande Valley of Texas
Originally Posted by Rich Galassini
This is because all fine pianos were/are designed to fail.


Really?

Re: 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8" [Re: RodneyH] #2504131
01/26/16 10:23 AM
01/26/16 10:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 558
Rio Grande Valley of Texas
Guapo Gabacho Offline
500 Post Club Member
Guapo Gabacho  Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 558
Rio Grande Valley of Texas
Did the designers of the Cunningham piano design them to fail too or are we only talking about fine pianos?

(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
Re: 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8" [Re: Guapo Gabacho] #2504133
01/26/16 10:31 AM
01/26/16 10:31 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 788
K
Karl Watson Offline
500 Post Club Member
Karl Watson  Offline
500 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 788
SNARKY, SNARKY, SNARKY !

Are you trying create ill-will ? Have you EVER known Rich to write, say or do ANYTHING that was not genuine and to the point ?

I'm sure you know and understand very well just exactly what Rich intended when he wrote "designed to fail."

Members like Rich deserve the respect of the forum. We are all in their debt.

Karl Watson,
Staten Island, NY

Re: 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8" [Re: RodneyH] #2504147
01/26/16 11:18 AM
01/26/16 11:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 558
Rio Grande Valley of Texas
Guapo Gabacho Offline
500 Post Club Member
Guapo Gabacho  Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 558
Rio Grande Valley of Texas
Would there not have been a better way of saying what you think he meant?

Pianos no matter their quality, by their design, will fail.

What he wrote is outlandish.


Re: 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8" [Re: Guapo Gabacho] #2504164
01/26/16 12:08 PM
01/26/16 12:08 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,985
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Rich Galassini Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Rich Galassini  Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,985
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Originally Posted by Guapo Gabacho
Would there not have been a better way of saying what you think he meant?

Pianos no matter their quality, by their design, will fail.

What he wrote is outlandish.



Dear Guapo,

I was writing for a layperson/newbie (as the OP obviously is). First of all, of course a Cunningham will fail.

Secondly, when I make a statement like that about how pianos age, the first response from most newbies is, "Even a Steinway (or insert Bosendorfer, Mason & Hamlin, or your preference)?"

My point was that ALL pianos fail. I am so sorry you found it outlandish. But it is truth. Frankly, I am surprised at your reaction.

I guess you can't please all of the people all of the time. smile Oh well.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Subscribe to our YouTube channel for great content every week:
https://www.youtube.com/user/CunninghamPiano
Re: 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8" [Re: RodneyH] #2504631
01/27/16 02:59 PM
01/27/16 02:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,280
Nashville, TN
P
Pianolance Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Pianolance  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,280
Nashville, TN
That being said, a Kurtzmann piano was considered a good piano back in the day. I played one with a similar vintage that hadn't been restored but it played beautifully and was a nice sounding piano - even in its relatively poor condition.


Knabe 5'2" Louis XV Walnut circa 1927
Very part time piano broker.
Re: 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8" [Re: RodneyH] #2504645
01/27/16 04:16 PM
01/27/16 04:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,982
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rickster  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,982
Georgia, USA
Well, I have changed my mind a bit about old vs. new(er); some older pianos retain a nice tone, play well and look well even after the ravages of time in years. On the other had, I've come to the conclusion, based on my own experiences, that newer is (usually) better, but there are exceptions.

For example, I'm older but still good looking... grin (just kidding; no I'm not laugh ).

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8" [Re: RodneyH] #2504697
01/27/16 07:36 PM
01/27/16 07:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,548
🎹
Retsacnal Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
Retsacnal  Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,548
🎹
Here's a video of someone playing and singing the praises of a Kurtzman of about the same size and vintage:

http://livingpianos.com/pianos/kurtzmann-grand-piano-50194/

Here's an archived post from 1999 that lists "good pianos" of various makes (Kurtzmann is in the list):

http://www.pianoworld.com/brand_opinion.htm

And, from the same member, here's a list of "list some of the better names of 'Golden Age' American piano makers" (and Kurtzmann is also in the list):

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...6/topic/000029/Number/0/site_id/1#import

I believe there were more than 1500 piano makers in that era, so the fact that this name has stood the test of time, and makes this short list of 50 or so, seems significant to me.



(Thanks to Rickster for posting a link to the historical post above a while back; otherwise I'd probably never have seen it)


if you're content with A V E R A G E . . . then just do what everyone else does
Re: 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8" [Re: RodneyH] #2504701
01/27/16 07:42 PM
01/27/16 07:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,548
🎹
Retsacnal Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
Retsacnal  Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,548
🎹
P.S. My experience in the last few years is that "golden age" grands that are in reasonable condition, sold by private parties (i.e. no warranty or reconditioning/rebuilding/etc), generally have asking prices between one and two thousand dollars, sometimes higher, sometimes free. Your mileage may vary, based on your local market. The main exception is that Steinway "cores" tend to retain a higher value, based on the market for rebuilt Steinways.


if you're content with A V E R A G E . . . then just do what everyone else does
Re: 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8" [Re: Retsacnal] #2504787
01/28/16 01:06 AM
01/28/16 01:06 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 788
K
Karl Watson Offline
500 Post Club Member
Karl Watson  Offline
500 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 788
Good points all, Ret.

I remember once playing an old Bluthner grand, about 190cm, in a warehouse in the Bronx. It must have been made around the turn of the last century. I don't think that it had been tampered with in any way. That piano had a kind-of magic, although very faded, that called out to one, and its tone and action proclaimed its aristocratic pedigree. I had a chance to buy it but declined, thinking that it might turn out to be a money pit. Was it a missed opportunity ? I don't know but I still think of that piano.

Karl Watson,
Staten Island, NY

Re: 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8" [Re: Rich Galassini] #2507046
02/04/16 01:18 AM
02/04/16 01:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,073
California, USA
M
musicpassion Offline
2000 Post Club Member
musicpassion  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,073
California, USA
Originally Posted by Rich Galassini
Originally Posted by RodneyH
I am interested in any feed back or thoughts on a 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand that measures 5'8"". The piano has been regularly maintained for the last 5 years by a very reputable technician. I have spoken to him and he told me that the piano is in excellent condition having had a very good restoration in the past date unknown. The sound board I am told is near perfect as is the finish. The individual selling the instrument is asking $2500. I am going to take a look this Friday. I have done a good bit of research about this instrument but I am by no means an expert and would welcome any thoughts or advice. Thanks.


Right away, please know that no matter the present condition, the piano likely needs work - a lot of work.

This is because all fine pianos were/are designed to fail. Their basic design of downbearing will eventually lead to the belly (or soundboard) of the piano to need replacing. Additionally action parts wear because they are made with organic material.

There were more than one quality of Kurtzmann piano as well over time.

My best advice would be to hire an independent technician to examine the piano for you.

Good luck and keep us posted,
Rich, I understand what you're saying and I think you expressed it just fine.

However some pianos seem to have soundboards that stand the test of time. I've played enough original boards from the 1900s - 1930s that were breathtaking... glorious... to conclude it is possible.

Of course the hammers, strings, bridges, and action work is a different story.


Pianist and Piano Teacher
Re: 1921 C. Kurtzmann baby grand 5'8" [Re: RodneyH] #2507065
02/04/16 04:18 AM
02/04/16 04:18 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,346
North Hollywood CA.
pianobroker Offline
4000 Post Club Member
pianobroker  Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,346
North Hollywood CA.
That Kurtzman grand is a pretty decent piano as for it's structural build. Fully restored it would be a fine example of a quality vintage American piano. That grand is a cosmetic copy of the Steinway M. I believe it was 5'7". We've restored a few over the years and they came out good. They only look like a Steinway M and don't share any similarity as for scale design or ?. They don't have duplex scale bars and they don't resemble any similarity to Steinway's action design parts wise etc. The thing is, it costs the same $ to fully restore this piano as for a Steinway M so....be prepared for an analogous $ cost estimate for any restorative work now or down the road. As a rebuildable spec piano I would not consider rebuilding one for sale because the restoration cost exceeds it's realistic selling price. If the piano has not had any recent salvageable quality restorative work done, it really has no "as is" value. Probably not what you wanted to hear, but I tell it the way it is. If it was grandma's piano persons have no problem paying restoring a family heirloom because they have no intention of ever selling it in the future.


www.pastperfectpiano.com
Largest selection in the USA
100+Steinway and M&H grands
Warehouse showroom Onsite Restoration
Preowned & Restored
Hailun dlr.818-255-3145
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z8RvhXGKzY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voo0zumHGgE

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

New In Our Store!
New In Our Store!
A few of the many new items we've added to our online store.
(PianoSupplies.com is a division of Piano World)
wrap around sunglasses with music notes
Wrap around sun glasses with music notes


88 keys, 10 fingers, no problem
88 Keys, 10 Fingers, No Problem


Bass Clef Hat
Bass Clef Hat

Tons more music related products in our online store!
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Pianos at PTG and NAMM Conventions
by Grandman. 07/19/18 06:23 PM
What Is My Roland RD-600 Worth?
by AnalogJeff. 07/19/18 04:35 PM
Easy Debussy
by BbAltered. 07/19/18 03:54 PM
Daniel Lozakovich
by pianoloverus. 07/19/18 12:25 PM
Keystation49 or Launchkey49
by Stiglo Olsen. 07/19/18 11:48 AM
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Steingraeber
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Forum Statistics
Forums40
Topics186,496
Posts2,732,940
Members90,597
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1