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Re: Lady Gaga...
Nikolas #2504821 01/28/16 03:40 AM
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izaldu, a very interesting post and one that I disagree to, almost completely.

For me Lady Gaga represents someone who's been scolded a lot (in these very forums as well), and I wanted to bring a different side of her.

The pointless part of her music, is mainly based on the production of her songs and the image she has, I think, rather than the actual music itself.

I don't think we're setting the bar really low. I can provide various examples (maybe not in the mainstream pop), like Radiohead, or Eels or other bands that work brilliantly.

Lastly the 'struggling musicians' that no one cares is also a problem of themselves, with which I mean that maybe it's not the fault of those who are known, but of the struggling ones who are not doing what it takes... :-/

Re: Lady Gaga...
Nikolas #2504824 01/28/16 04:11 AM
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Well i am not one to really engage in the "good music" vs "bad music" debate, because i don't believe in it. The joy that one person gets from a Katy Perry song can be even greater than the pleasure someone with a major in piano performance can get from a work by Bach or Beethoven. Snobbishness has played against classical music for a long time, but there are other factors.

When i said we re setting the bar really low, i meant that the music that seems to be most successful these days is musically quite irrelevant. You even hear it from people who only like rock, that the bands coming up these days aren't like they used to be in the 70s, 80s even 90s. There is little going on in the way of innovation. Very little.

I can think of a lot of singers, female vocalists from the 70s that could sing better than Gaga. They were pretty ignored in their time and a lot of them are somewhat forgotten now. Until Tarantino features one of their songs in a movie, or something.

At the end of the day, the comments towards Gaga are pretty much "wow, she can sing good, and play at the same time". Isn't she a singer? She 's making what 20, 30 million a year from singing and music in general. You go to a wedding or a hotel lounge and when there's a pianist playing the jazz classics, do people go like "wow, he can actually play all those songs flawlessly, amazing!". No they don't. That's his job. People take it for granted. People take for granted that they go to a classical concert and the soloist will be flawless, at least in execution.

Whereas in pop music, it's different. For Gaga to have the chops and the talent to sit at a piano and be able to move a crowd through her singing and playing, alone, that is a BONUS, not a minimum requirement,l like it should be for any performing musician. Because her envirronment in terms of audience etc is the same as that of the Britneys, Katys, Taylors ... who are ...well ... not really making breakthrough music. So when you find one that actually looks somewhat talented, she's one of a kind.I saw katy Perry in a concert on tv a couple years ago. She was totally out of tune. It was terrible. Maybe it was an off night, but she sucked, hard. Yet the audience was perfectly happy.

Again, i don't dislike Gaga. Good for her and she can play a decent song and sings pretty good. But come on.

As to the other bands you mention, i m not into pop music much . I ve listened to a lot of it in my life. But most of what i hear now sounds pretty unoriginal and repetitive to me. I think bands were much better 20, 30, 40 years ago because they were not shooting to be successful or cool. Now bands get more promotion from media outlets that deal with celebrities ythan with actual musical talk.

Last edited by izaldu; 01/28/16 05:07 AM.
Re: Lady Gaga...
izaldu #2504850 01/28/16 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by izaldu
You go to a wedding or a hotel lounge and when there's a pianist playing the jazz classics, do people go like "wow, he can actually play all those songs flawlessly, amazing!". No they don't.


Actually, people do say that. Quite frequently.

I am not the greatest pianist in the world by a long shot, but many times when I play in public somebody will come up and say something along the lines of "wow, amazing, how do you do that, etc".

ps...I don't play jazz or do weddings. laugh


Piano teacher.
Re: Lady Gaga...
Nikolas #2505085 01/28/16 09:52 PM
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Quote
There is little going on in the way of innovation. Very little.


I can't imagine anyone as innovative and outside the box as Captain Beefheart being recorded in this day and age.


Gary
Re: Lady Gaga...
Nikolas #2505247 01/29/16 12:06 PM
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I sometimes listen to Lady Gaga. I actually prefer Adele, though.

Re: Lady Gaga...
Orange Soda King #2505439 01/30/16 01:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Orange Soda King
I sometimes listen to Lady Gaga.

I was a bit snobby about Lady Gaga until I heard some cuts from her album with Tony Bennett. Our local jazz station had a few of them on rotation, and I must say, I was quite impressed! thumb


Jason
Re: Lady Gaga...
Nikolas #2508403 02/08/16 06:34 AM
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Did anyone hear her performance of the national anthem before yesterday's Superbowl? Further evidence, in case anyone needed it, that she can sing!

Re: Lady Gaga...
Nikolas #2508406 02/08/16 07:33 AM
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She did a great job on the Star Spangled Banner.

And I enjoyed Marlee Matlin too!


Learner
Re: Lady Gaga...
Hank M #2508660 02/09/16 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Hank M
Did anyone hear her performance of the national anthem before yesterday's Superbowl? Further evidence, in case anyone needed it, that she can sing!



Jeepers, she really belted it out ... best rendition at the SB in years imo. Glad she came out dressed stylish rather than the wild duds, etc., and her interview about doing the event was very good too.


Rerun

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Re: Lady Gaga...
Nikolas #2508670 02/09/16 08:01 AM
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I'm not a fan of when people add all sorts of riffs and stuff to the national anthem, actually... And some of her vowels sounded a bit interesting, but she does have a good voice.

If anything, it was still more exciting than the actual game itself.

Re: Lady Gaga...
Nikolas #2508709 02/09/16 11:02 AM
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I saw Lady Gaga sings, but I heard someway Barbra Streisand ...

Last edited by Nahum; 02/09/16 11:03 AM.
Re: Lady Gaga...
Nikolas #2508797 02/09/16 02:50 PM
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Pop music is bad enough itself, but Lady Gaga and alike performers are a distaster.

David Bowie, mentioned here before is a good comparision- with all respect to him (I bet that in different environment, the man had enough talent, intelligence and curiosity to become a good classical musician). The man was able to write songs that had some touch of higher musical advancement, and non-musical content that is often far above intelligence and knowledge of lots, if not majority of people today, therefore often incomprehensible for them. Also, his performing skills improved in time, from a crying rockman he turned into quite good singer (I wrote "quite" because, I'm not sure would he be able to perform very well in case of quick, rapid tone changes in big intervals?)
Still his compositions were simple, harsh, often somewhat infantile (as majority of pop compositions I suppose), though in case of Bowie it was probably a sensible artistic effect, still for me irritating these days, because I consider it reflecting some very bad state of mind. Still, I consider David Bowie as an artist, and rather skilled musician.

But Lady Gaga is a different story. Her songs are pointless, and compositions are simple like a wall made of wooden blocks.
Who cares if she can sing or not, there are lots of people who can sing better than she does, therefore it is unjust and irritating to hear blessings about somebody like her.

Neuhaus said that music can desribe the structure of world. What kind of world is that, the pop singers are able to see and show to us? I would be scared to be back at this state of mind. I never listened to things that bad, but 10 years ago I was close. About 5 years ago I started to listen to classical music a lot, and now I feel like I've escaped from a closed bottle, and have acces to entire Universe.

Re: Lady Gaga...
Nikolas #2508807 02/09/16 03:12 PM
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To call Lady Gaga's songwriting mediocre would be a compliment.

Re: Lady Gaga...
Nahum #2508824 02/09/16 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Nahum
I saw Lady Gaga sings, but I heard someway Barbra Streisand ...

cursing

Re: Lady Gaga...
Nikolas #2508825 02/09/16 03:48 PM
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It is a good thing anytime a piano, a big grand piano, is featured front and center for millions and millions to see.


Piano teacher.
Re: Lady Gaga...
Nikolas #2508889 02/09/16 10:07 PM
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I always find it annoying when people are derogatory about a musician's talent because they don't like their music. Saying she isn't talented or is a mediocre writer is just silly. I suspect she has more talent and motivation than anyone belittling her here, and I can't stand most of her music. I can still be honest enough to admit she didn't make it big in the music industry because she's a pretty blonde doing something easy. She's not blonde, what she does isn't easy, and she made it big because she's smart and exceptionally talented.

Oh, and Lady Gaga isn't her name. She's Stefani Germonatta. She started playing piano at 4 or 5, was writing and performing her own songs by the time she was a teenager, and she got into NYU's Tisch school. I remember Tisch because my sister was there at the same time as Idina Menzel, and I thought it was an interesting contrast, Menzel and Gaga. I think Germonatta had a band that played around NY with some success before she actually became "Lady Gaga", and then got discovered doing much more traditional music.

Her singing, song writing, and piano playing abilities aren't mediocre. She's eccentric and unusual, and she's writing pop stuff I hate, but she's talented and versatile. This is someone who had some success with Indy and more traditional singer songwriter performances, but somewhere along the way she realized she could probably make more money doing her performance pop art thing. And she did. Like I said, smart...

And since she's now popular and successful enough that she can basically do what she wants, my guess is we'll see her doing more complex and eclectic pieces. Or maybe she'll write a musical for Broadway. Who knows, maybe she'll even do something I'll like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ekj-08DR5p4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SagYW3-KNyc


Previously: M&H AA (2006)
Currently: Phoenix C212 (2016)
Re: Lady Gaga...
JoelW #2508916 02/09/16 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by Nahum
I saw Lady Gaga sings, but I heard someway Barbra Streisand ...

cursing
I have an advantage over you: I enjoy of both worlds , judging each its own laws. This is pluralism ; with totalitarianism I was familiar since childhood for 26 years ...

Re: Lady Gaga...
Toddler2 #2508921 02/09/16 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Toddler2
I always find it annoying when people are derogatory about a musician's talent because they don't like their music. Saying she isn't talented or is a mediocre writer is just silly.

Why is it silly? She's no McCartney.

Re: Lady Gaga...
JoelW #2508928 02/10/16 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by Toddler2
I always find it annoying when people are derogatory about a musician's talent because they don't like their music. Saying she isn't talented or is a mediocre writer is just silly.

Why is it silly? She's no McCartney.
This is not your original post, but I'll leave this part aside.

The idea is that YOU don't like her music is the main point, not that she's NOT McCartney.

Get it now?

Yes feel free to dislike anything you want though...

Re: Lady Gaga...
Nikolas #2508932 02/10/16 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Nikolas
Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by Toddler2
I always find it annoying when people are derogatory about a musician's talent because they don't like their music. Saying she isn't talented or is a mediocre writer is just silly.

Why is it silly? She's no McCartney.
This is not your original post, but I'll leave this part aside.

The idea is that YOU don't like her music is the main point, not that she's NOT McCartney.

Get it now?

Yes feel free to dislike anything you want though...

This is not up for debate. Gaga's songwriting is not in the same universe as Paul McCartney, Brian Wilson, Stevie Wonder, Freddie Mercury, Michael Jackson, Elton John, etc, in the same way that said musicians aren't in the same universe as Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, etc. I know you appreciate Freddie. Are you telling me she can be mentioned in the same breath? I don't mean to be crass, but let's be real here. I'm not saying she CAN'T write "Somebody to Love" but she certainly hasn't written anything that's come even close. Keep in mind that I have virtually no bias whatsoever here. I'm not looking through any sort of lens. For the record, I'm not a fan of these pop stars' commercial schticks; I simply judge the music for what it is, and this includes Gaga.

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