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Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium #2504122
01/26/16 09:53 AM
01/26/16 09:53 AM
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Fer De Armas Offline OP
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Hi, i´d like to know objetive differences between these key actions, pivot lenght, cosmetics issues, data sheets, pictures view inside an any data about these Roland DP key actions. Please opinions people of persons who have been personally try these keys preferable. If you've been able to compare these keys please share with us about which action is more smooth feeling, quicker action, heavier, noisier, realistic, confortable feeling, cosmetic feeling, sluggish, which has the hard bottoming out like PHA3, and other brands more comparable DP key actions. Thanks...!

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Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: Fer De Armas] #2504128
01/26/16 10:17 AM
01/26/16 10:17 AM
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It was reported in thread about FP 30, from Marko from Boston, that the only difference is the Premium uses a better Ebony-type of material for the black notes. Everything else appears the same.


AG N2 | CP4 | SSv3 | GK MK & MP
Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: 36251] #2504153
01/26/16 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by 36251
It was reported in thread about FP 30, from Marko from Boston, that the only difference is the Premium uses a better Ebony-type of material for the black notes. Everything else appears the same.


Surely this is not true. Did Marko from Boston really say that or just something like that? Because PHAIV Standard is the successor of Ivory G - a light weight, portable and cheap action which is OK but doesn't feel at all like a piano. On the other hand, PHAIV Premium (and Concert) succeeds (PHA ?), PHAII and PHAIII which are Roland's top of the line actions used, for example, on the $24999 (list price) V-Grand (PHAIII).


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Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: Fer De Armas] #2504157
01/26/16 11:55 AM
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Whoa, dont beat me up. I did not say that. I was just saying RD800 is different action than FP30, Standard vs. Concert. But I can see how my post can be taken wrong. My bad. Was just doing a cut-and-paste from Roland website with no further explanation. I believe Jay Roland went in detail in the differece between all the new Roland PHA4 actions in previous posts.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Marko in Boston; 01/26/16 12:00 PM.

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Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: Fer De Armas] #2504168
01/26/16 12:12 PM
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Marko - I had read the statement you've reposted just above and I did not take it to mean that the you claimed the actions were similar. In fact, quite the opposite - I took it to mean you were pointing out that they were quite different.

And even if you had said they were similar, I would not beat you up. Why should I want to do such a thing - even if I could, which is improbable? smile


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Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: toddy] #2504183
01/26/16 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by toddy
Marko - I had read the statement you've reposted just above and I did not take it to mean that the you claimed the actions were similar. In fact, quite the opposite - I took it to mean you were pointing out that they were quite different.

And even if you had said they were similar, I would not beat you up. Why should I want to do such a thing - even if I could, which is improbable? smile


Thanks toddy, Just having fun with this thread!

This is one of the posts I was referring to that Jay Roland mentions the PHA4 differences:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2388909.html#Post2388909

and this one: http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2389105/.html#Post2389105

Last edited by Marko in Boston; 01/26/16 12:53 PM.

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Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: Marko in Boston] #2504237
01/26/16 03:26 PM
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Fer De Armas Offline OP
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Hi Marko, and thanks for your response, im looking for a portable DP with a heavier touch than my Kawai MP7 with RHII key action, for me this key action is amazing and similar to RD800 PHAIV Concert action, indeed they are more in the light side actions... but my MP7 is very heavy for gigs, and i have heard that the PHAIV standard key action is heavier than the concert version and Kawai RHII too, if true it interests me cause as I look for classical practice and the new Roland FP30 fit in that purpose perfectly. Thanks...!

Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: toddy] #2504239
01/26/16 03:27 PM
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Hi toddy... is Roland PHAIV Standard a heavier action than Kawai AHA-IV? or Yamaha GH?... Thanks!...

Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: Fer De Armas] #2504241
01/26/16 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Fer De Armas
Hi toddy... is Roland PHAIV Standard a heavier action than Kawai AHA-IV? or Yamaha GH?... Thanks!...


It's heavier than GH3 for sure.

Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: Fer De Armas] #2504243
01/26/16 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Fer De Armas
Hi toddy... is Roland PHAIV Standard a heavier action than Kawai AHA-IV? or Yamaha GH?... Thanks!...


Yes, the PHAIV standard is heavier than those two actions

Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: Garf] #2504246
01/26/16 03:47 PM
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Hi Garf, thanks for your quick response, and PHAIV Standard is heavier than Kawai RHII/RHIII actions? and heavier than PHAIV concert?...

Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: xadmin] #2504247
01/26/16 03:47 PM
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Hi xadmin, thanks for your quick response, and PHAIV Standard is heavier than Kawai RHII/RHIII actions? and heavier than PHAIV concert?...

Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: Marko in Boston] #2504248
01/26/16 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Marko in Boston
Whoa, dont beat me up. I did not say that. I was just saying RD800 is different action than FP30, Standard vs. Concert. But I can see how my post can be taken wrong. My bad. Was just doing a cut-and-paste from Roland website with no further explanation. I believe Jay Roland went in detail in the differece between all the new Roland PHA4 actions in previous posts.

[Linked Image]
Sorry, as you can see the original email was a difference between Standard and Concert (not Premium.) My bad. But that does make me ask, how many PHA4 actions does Roland make? Kind of confusing, unless that's the intent.


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Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: xadmin] #2504249
01/26/16 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by xadmin
Originally Posted by Fer De Armas
Hi toddy... is Roland PHAIV Standard a heavier action than Kawai AHA-IV? or Yamaha GH?... Thanks!...


Yes, the PHAIV standard is heavier than those two actions


If it was heavier than those two, I wouldnt have bought my FP50. So it cant be. Pure logic!

I tried em all out before buying. The LX7 was better. But Id had beans for tea so maybe my judgement was impaired. . .


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: toddy] #2504259
01/26/16 04:06 PM
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Toddy,
I own the Roland RP401R with PHAIV Standard , and though it may not be as good as the key beds on the higher end DP's, it does in fact feel like a piano.

I've played the high end Roland's and Kawai's, And quite a few APs in my life, and to make a sweeping statement like " doesn't feel at all like a piano" is just not correct. People are trying to make a decision on a good portable DP or a low price console DP for whatever reason, and that kind of statement doesn't help anyone.

I've played AP's and DP's that had terrible actions, but I wouldn't say they didn't feel like a piano, It just had an action I don't care for. IMHO, the PHAIV Standard action Is pretty decent for the money.


Kawai CA67- Kawai ES8 MIDI'ed to a Korg Kronos 61- Roland FP4
Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: DonZon] #2504270
01/26/16 04:29 PM
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OK DonZon, thanks for your response...!

Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: DonZon] #2504282
01/26/16 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by DonZon
Toddy,
I own the Roland RP401R with PHAIV Standard , and though it may not be as good as the key beds on the higher end DP's, it does in fact feel like a piano.

I've played the high end Roland's and Kawai's, And quite a few APs in my life, and to make a sweeping statement like " doesn't feel at all like a piano" is just not correct. People are trying to make a decision on a good portable DP or a low price console DP for whatever reason, and that kind of statement doesn't help anyone.

I've played AP's and DP's that had terrible actions, but I wouldn't say they didn't feel like a piano, It just had an action I don't care for. IMHO, the PHAIV Standard action Is pretty decent for the money.


DonZon. I wasn't talking about PHAIV Standard. If you look at my post, you'll see it's a reference to Ivory-G which I really think is pretty good, but it's unlike any piano I've every played - just my experience though.

PHAIV Standard is another matter, and I agree with you that it's a big improvment and also that it's one of the best actions in a portable, lighter weight DP.

I also agree that most of DP keyboards are very reasonable simulations of grand piano actions. I'd go so far as to say that you'd have to spend a lot of money on an AP to match the 'grand piano-like' feel on the best actions from companies like Yamaha, Kawai and Roland. I certainly did not mean to talk down the PHAIV Standard - I think it's a pretty good keybaord - but it is still not of the same quality as PHAIV Premium and Concert - those are much better, as Yamaha GH/GH3 are much better than Yamaha GHS


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Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: toddy] #2504287
01/26/16 05:18 PM
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Hi, is PHAIV Standard equal or better than the old PHAIII action in the thumping and hard bottoming out typical defect?, is better this new action for classical pieces movement?...Thnks!

Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: Fer De Armas] #2504288
01/26/16 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Fer De Armas
Hi, is PHAIV Standard equal or better than the old PHAIII action in the thumping and hard bottoming out typical defect?,


I only tried PHAIV (the various types)a couploe of times and would say that they are less thumpy and do not bottom out as hard as PHAIII

Originally Posted by Fer De Armas
...is better this new action for classical pieces movement?...Thnks!


PHAIII is much better than PHAIV Standard for jazz and classical IMHO - others may well disagree.

PHAIV Premium and Concert are completely different and are comparable to PHAIII (though personally I prefer the older 'hard bottoming out' keyboards)

Last edited by toddy; 01/26/16 05:27 PM.

Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

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Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: toddy] #2504291
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Ok toddy thanks, and how compare against Kawai RHII/RHIII key actions?...

Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: Fer De Armas] #2504293
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Fer, I only tried an ES7 once just to touch and from that brief trial, I thought it was nice - similar to PHAIII, I think, though softer. Never tried RHIII.


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Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: toddy] #2504295
01/26/16 05:36 PM
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Ok thanks toddy, I must interpret "softer" as less heavy?... in other words Roland PHAIII is heavier than Kawai RHII ? isn´t it? ...Thanks again my friend!...

Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: toddy] #2504301
01/26/16 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by toddy
Fer, I only tried an ES7 once just to touch and from that brief trial, I thought it was nice - similar to PHAIII, I think, though softer.


I completely agree with that statement. My ES7 feels very similar to PHA3 on RD700NX that I tried many times. Both very nice. ES7 is bit softer. RD700NX might have slight more key travel depth than ES7. Or maybe the hard bottoming when really digging in gave me that impression. RD800 PHA4-Concert softer than both IMO.


Geez, I cant believe I got roped into another action thread. crazy

Last edited by Marko in Boston; 01/26/16 05:53 PM.

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Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: Fer De Armas] #2504302
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Toddy,
After re-reading your post, I see you were talking about the Ivory G. I must have miss read it.
Thanks for clarifying.
I don't normally defend the Rp401r, PHAIV standard keybed, but after a year of playing it, it's been a great keyboard with an extremely quiet action that's rock solid, and no problems whatsoever.
Though, I'd trade it for a Kawai ca 97 in a heartbeat.
LOL.


Kawai CA67- Kawai ES8 MIDI'ed to a Korg Kronos 61- Roland FP4
Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: Fer De Armas] #2504303
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Well, I would be less than honest if I didn't explain a bit more: soft as in bottoming out less hard. As for the down weight, I don't really know - I think it was similar. What I did compare (back in 2011) was the Kawai MP6 against Yamaha (GH) and Roland (PHAII) and I much preferred the Roland out of those, and then the Yamaha (though thought it too heavy) and the Kawai - not 'complient' enough in its down action - that's basically why I like the Rolands, and (when I tried a couple of years later) Kawai GF.

But it doesn't matter that much - they are all pretty good and you adapt to what you're using quickly, but the cheaper, portable type keyboards obviously involve some short cuts, so are not as good. But the Roland PHAIV Standard may well be the best.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

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Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: DonZon] #2504304
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Originally Posted by DonZon
Toddy,
After re-reading your post, I see you were talking about the Ivory G. I must have miss read it.
Thanks for clarifying.
I don't normally defend the Rp401r, PHAIV standard keybed, but after a year of playing it, it's been a great keyboard with an extremely quiet action that's rock solid, and no problems whatsoever.
Though, I'd trade it for a Kawai ca 97 in a heartbeat.
LOL.


Seems we're on the same wavelength, then. Thanks for your clarifation re the RP401r.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: peterws] #2504336
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I don't have anything to contribute to this discussion, however...

Originally Posted by peterws
Id had beans for tea so maybe my judgement was impaired. . .


...is surely the best line of the week so far!


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Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: peterws] #2504342
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Originally Posted by peterws
Originally Posted by xadmin
Originally Posted by Fer De Armas
Hi toddy... is Roland PHAIV Standard a heavier action than Kawai AHA-IV? or Yamaha GH?... Thanks!...


Yes, the PHAIV standard is heavier than those two actions


If it was heavier than those two, I wouldnt have bought my FP50. So it cant be. Pure logic!

I tried em all out before buying. The LX7 was better. But Id had beans for tea so maybe my judgement was impaired. . .


Your FP50 has Ivory Feel G key action

Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: Kawai James] #2504349
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
I don't have anything to contribute to this discussion, however...

Originally Posted by peterws
Id had beans for tea so maybe my judgement was impaired. . .


...is surely the best line of the week so far!


Pete's judgement is always impaired. The beans are incidental.

More to the point, why are people responding to Fer de whatever-his-name-is?! I've got one nerve and he's getting on it. And I can't be the only one!!


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Re: Roland PHA4 Standard vs Premium [Re: EssBrace] #2504391
01/26/16 10:02 PM
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M
Marko in Boston Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Marko in Boston  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,406
Boston, Massachusetts
Originally Posted by EssBrace

More to the point, why are people responding to Fer de whatever-his-name-is?! I've got one nerve and he's getting on it. And I can't be the only one!!


EssBrace, I cant help myself! I must respond to him. I always get sucked into the Fer De Armas vortex. Then I slowly come out and sit in fetal position for an hour questioning my life.

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