Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner How precisely should a trill be executed?

I know that if you look it up it’ll specify a certain number of 32nd or 16th notes, but I’d like to know if this is strictly followed in practice. I’m guessing the answer is something like sometimes. I've encountered very few trills before, and I just wanted to ensure that I don’t develop any bad habits.

If it helps, here’s the piece that prompted my question:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBOiIhTapos

The trill starts around 4:17.

I guess another way I could ask the question would be like this: If three different concert pianists played this section, would the number of notes comprising the trill be the same for all three?

Thanks in advance!

-Nick

I'd say the number of notes is left to the player and depends a little bit on the character of the piece: in a fast piece, the trill would also be fast, while in a slow piece it can be slower. But there is no specific number of notes.

Okay, that's what I though. I just didn't want to continue playing pieces that way and then one day find out I've been doing it wrong (The prospect of retraining myself isn't pleasant.).

Thanks.

Trill speed very often changes during the trill for musical reasons.

My teacher just told me "You don't want a trill to sound like a doorbell ringing! (In other words, don't play them in strict time.)

A few thoughts for you, from the book I compiled on advice from the masters. Ornaments and embellishments are highly personal.

"Regard ornaments as spices too much of which can ruin a good dish, or as gaudy architectural elements that can deface an otherwise well-proportioned building. If speakers were to embellish every word with accent, all would be similar and unclear. … Practice ornaments to acquire skill, but ornaments that cannot be executed with charm are best omitted entirely."
C.P.E. BACH

"To trill quickly we must think quickly; for if we trill only with the fingers they will soon stick, lose their rhythmic succession, and finish in cramped condition."
JOSEF HOFMANN


"Perhaps Chopin had little strength, but nobody could approach him in grace and elegance, and when he embellished, it was always the apotheosis of good taste."
WILHELM von LENZ

"Embellishments ought always to be played more delicately than the passage which they are intended to adorn. In modern music the ornaments are generally written in smaller notes, thus implying that the tone, like the print, ought to be diminished."
ERNST PAUER

"I’m fond of long trills. ... Really trill, so that it dawns on the public why they had to pay twice the admission price."
LISZT


"Double thirds trill exercises are purely mental, and with care and slow practice, can be accomplished…. By playing the trill exercises in every key, and on various combinations of black and white notes, much greater facility may be secured. “Begin the trill slowly” was Chopin’s advice, and those who have heard him, testify that this was his custom in playing them. … The trill is one of the chief effects of our best song birds. Listen to your canary, as he raises his little head, ruffles his throat feathers, and pours out his song. How he practices those trills, over and over; how brilliant, even, and rapid they are. Surely he is a good model for the singer, who does well to copy his tones and effects, as well as his industry. The pianist should also learn from both bird and singer, and endeavor to model his trills after theirs."
HARRIETTE BROWER

Thank you all for the replies. They've given me some very helpful insight.

Hi Nicholas,

I would hope some of the other commentators actually listened to the piece in question. In this case the trill is an integral part of the music. It's the beginning of a fast part with a lot of right hand figuration. The trill itself is relatively short. All I can say is if that trill is the hardest aspect of the end of this piece for you then you should be able to master it relatively quickly. Good luck.

What I would be interested in knowing is how this video has more than 800,000 views. I'm NOT claiming that it shouldn't have, but what I'm claiming is that this appears to be VERY popular... no?

What's more important is how the overall trill fits inside the rhythm of the music. It must not disturb the rhythm of the phrase.

It needs to feel like a spontaneous, elaboration of a simpler musical idea/rhythm. You have to feel the sensation and rhythm of the simpler idea despite the the elaboration placed on top of it.

Adding more notes to the trill is simply increasing the complexity of the elaboration; hence, you shouldn't feel like you are adding more and more notes so much as you are adding more and more layers via subdivision. When you add a layer you still need to practice the simpler layer preceding it so that you do not lose that underlying sensation.

It's certainly not the hardest part. I just wanted to ensure that I was doing it correctly. As for the rest of the piece, I'm approaching full speed, but it's still presenting some technical challenges. Having said that, I can play through the whole piece at a passing level right now. I just need to bring up a few parts.



Animenz occupies a very unique niche on YouTube. You simply won't find another pianist who plays pieces of that genre with that level of technical precision.

Check out this piece, for instance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEQf5lcnj_o

There's a reason it has over 9 million views. It's incredible. I love Chopin, but I like this genre too.



You worded that very well.