Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
124 registered members (Arty Movie, 36251, AaronSF, Antihero, AndrewJCW, aphexdisklavier, ando, 604Rakuda, 34 invisible), 1,853 guests, and 6 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Yamaha CX Silent Feature #2499526
01/12/16 12:53 PM
01/12/16 12:53 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 75
B
BOREGARD Offline OP
Full Member
BOREGARD  Offline OP
Full Member
B

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 75
This might be a technicians'question, but I thought this question might be best addressed by one who owns or has played a Yamaha CX acoustic piano outfitted with the Silent Piano device (not to be confused with their Disklavier models). The CX models with the silent feature have the achronym "SH" following their typical model number (i.e., C7XSH).

Question: When the silent feature is engaged is the action and touch of the piano affected in any way? Dealers tell me that the action of the CX series is absolutely NOT affected when the device is engaged--that the instrument's touch is identical to the natural touch without the device engaged. This seems hard to believe since when the device is engaged a hammer stop wire keeps the hammers from striking the strings thereby cancelling somewhat the natural resonance, tonal movement, and reverberation of the instrument. This would seem to affect the touch and feel of the piano. In the Yamaha literature, Yamaha sort of fudges a bit on this issue. In describing this feature they state, " . . . unique technologies that allow them to offer a touch that is astonishlingly close to that of an acoustic grand piano even when in "Quit" mode."

I've yet to play one and any comments will be appreciated. The Silent feature is nice but not at the expense of a natural CX touch.

Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items, digital piano dolly, music theme party goods
Re: Yamaha CX Silent Feature [Re: BOREGARD] #2499661
01/12/16 08:30 PM
01/12/16 08:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,654
USA
8
8 Octaves Offline

Gold Supporter until July 22 2015
8 Octaves  Offline

Gold Supporter until July 22 2015

1000 Post Club Member
8

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,654
USA
I am an owner of a standard C3X. While shopping I seriously considered buying a C3-Silent and tried one out extensively. My observations were that the action of the silent CX series is exactly the same when the silent mechanism is engage and dis-engaged. The silent mechanism does not change the feel or touch of a silent piano compared to itself in silent or acoustic modes. However, the action regulation is actually slightly different from a standard C3.

The silent and Disklavier CX action regulation have been adjusted in order to accommodate the optical sensors and silent mechanism bar, and this slight difference in regulation of the action means it is harder to play ppp (with silent mode on or off). Try this the next time you're at the store. Try playing ppp at a standard CX and a CX-SH (preferably same size and model otherwise) without engaging the silent mode. You'll find that the silent model's regulation is different especially noticeable when playing softly. Otherwise, at all other dynamics, it's not noticeably different. Whether this is deal breaker for you is hard to say.

It all depends on your playing style and your skills in adapting to the action and whether the silent feature is a high priority. By the way, the better your skills, the less this would matter. For a concert level pianist, the difference is probably not worth mentioning. I have done some homework including asking a concert pianist (http://lisayui.com/) who owns such a piano whether it makes much difference and she told me it does not. The difficulty in playing ppp on the SH may well be something that someone like myself who is less skilled have more trouble with.

I have to say that the binaural recording in the SH feature is so well done that I've heard many forget they were wearing headphone and often stood up and started walking away from the piano with the headphones still on and plugged into the piano.

If you decide to purchase one, make sure your tech knows the different specs for action regulation of a CX-SH versus standard. Also, there's a cable that needs to be unplugged from the action first before removing it completely for voicing and adjusting the hammers.

Hope this helps.

Re: Yamaha CX Silent Feature [Re: BOREGARD] #2500152
01/14/16 08:45 AM
01/14/16 08:45 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,016
Germany
patH Offline

1000 Post Club Member
patH  Offline

1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,016
Germany
I have a Yamaha C2 SG (the model preceding the CX / SH series), and I don't feel there is a significant difference between playing with silent or non-silent mode. But that's just me.

Like the previous poster said: Best is you try them out yourself.


My grand piano is a Yamaha C2 SG.
Re: Yamaha CX Silent Feature [Re: patH] #2500188
01/14/16 10:58 AM
01/14/16 10:58 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 75
B
BOREGARD Offline OP
Full Member
BOREGARD  Offline OP
Full Member
B

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 75
Dear Path: Thanks for your help on this issue.

Re: Yamaha CX Silent Feature [Re: BOREGARD] #2500297
01/14/16 04:26 PM
01/14/16 04:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 35
F
fntms Offline
Full Member
fntms  Offline
Full Member
F

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 35
I have a C3XSH, I feel there is a slight difference when the silent system is engaged, which might be due to the fact that you hit a plastic bar rather than the strings, but sometimes I think it's 'in my head'...and it might be also because the sound is not at the same level, which makes the action 'feel' either harder or lighter (harder most of the time)...Of course the mechanical sound that the action makes is not the same as well (the SH is obviously louder with all the bar hitting), so that also plays a role.
You can all feel the other keys more in SH mode because (I think) the bar transmits the impacts more than in acoustic mode).
I don't really feel any difference with the non SH C3 action, but maybe it's there, anyway I am extremely happy with my SH's acoustic action, I can play from ppp to FFF without undue effort, it is very reactive and smooth, not too hard (like Kawai usually) and not too soft (older grands perhaps). Yamaha has a good reputation for action and it seems fairly acquired (at least for grands).


Yamaha C3X-SH. Pianoteq V5. Steinberg U22 USB.
Re: Yamaha CX Silent Feature [Re: BOREGARD] #2500361
01/14/16 09:26 PM
01/14/16 09:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,262
Reseda, California
J
JohnSprung Offline
Unobtanium Subscriber
JohnSprung  Offline
Unobtanium Subscriber
6000 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,262
Reseda, California

A difference in touch would be a good thing, not a bad one. If you only practice on one instrument, you don't develop the ability to adjust to the different response you'll get from any other piano.



-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: Yamaha CX Silent Feature [Re: BOREGARD] #2500816
01/16/16 04:27 AM
01/16/16 04:27 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 162
S
sirwormsalot Offline
Full Member
sirwormsalot  Offline
Full Member
S

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 162
Practicing on a high quality, yet challenging instrument does help to adapt to others.

Re: Yamaha CX Silent Feature [Re: BOREGARD] #2500948
01/16/16 04:38 PM
01/16/16 04:38 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,743
Los Angeles
Jeff Bauer Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Jeff Bauer  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,743
Los Angeles
Hi Boregard - pianos have something called "escapement". This is where the jack disengages just before the hammer makes contact with the string to allow the hammer to fall back and allow the string to vibrate freely.

Yamaha's silent system engages the hammer just after letoff by moving a bar with a rubber rail on it to intercept the hammers after letoff, but before they touch the strings.

the bar isn't the sensor though, there are optic sensors in the action that transmit the MIDI data to the cpu.

in previous versions of the silent - techs would set the letoff to be a further distance from the strings than regular to allow space for the silent system to engage. This poses a problem because that will rob the piano of some power at higher dynamic levels.

The new SH features a rotating escapement jack that makes up for this difference by adding two levels of escapement for silent mode and regular mode. It's a bit tech-y to explain, which is probably why they don't spend a whole lot of time on it in the literature. Regardless, the purpose of this is to give the technician the freedom to have the letoff at a regular amount so you don't sacrifice power in acoustic mode.


Jeff Bauer | Keyboard Concepts

Yamaha | Schimmel | Bösendorfer | Knabe | Restored Steinway

My soundcloud page

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
The Best Headphones According to Top Record Producers
by Bruce In Philly. 10/22/19 06:59 PM
NU1X Owners - could use your expertise.
by RubyC. 10/22/19 06:26 PM
What is a hybrid?
by MacMacMac. 10/22/19 06:05 PM
My new Privia PX-870 has arrived!!
by camperbc. 10/22/19 05:10 PM
Granados's Valse Poeticos
by StartwithBach. 10/22/19 03:34 PM
What's Hot!!
Our August Newsletter is Out!
------------------
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tour!

-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics194,675
Posts2,882,168
Members94,725
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1