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Are the new Baldwin pianos good? #2496376
01/02/16 04:43 PM
01/02/16 04:43 PM
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andrew7262 Offline OP
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Are the Baldwins that are now made in China (after 2008) quality pianos? Are they good for an intermediate/advanced pianist? How do they compare with other brands, like Yamaha or Kawai?

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Re: Are the new Baldwin pianos good? [Re: andrew7262] #2496415
01/02/16 06:52 PM
01/02/16 06:52 PM
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andrew7262 Offline OP
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Anyone? I can't find any customer reviews online.

Re: Are the new Baldwin pianos good? [Re: andrew7262] #2496432
01/02/16 07:26 PM
01/02/16 07:26 PM
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Ivan M. Offline
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It seems few are actually out there. The ones I played were distinctly unlike Yamaha in tone, pretty warm and actually woody. It looked like one could live with one of their tall uprights, for example, but there are many unknowns (see my response in your thread about model 125).


1892 Bechstein III -> 2015 Yamaha U3
Re: Are the new Baldwin pianos good? [Re: andrew7262] #2496445
01/02/16 08:17 PM
01/02/16 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by andrew7262
Anyone? I can't find any customer reviews online.


Actually, there was an extensive review done by PianoBuyer by Dr. James Lent at UCLA. Here is a link: NEW BALDWIN REVIEW

I hope this is helpful.


Russell I. Kassman
R.KASSMAN, Purveyor of Fine Pianos
Berkeley, CA

FORMER US Rep.for C.Bechstein

SF Area Dealer: Steingraeber•Grotrian•Sauter•Estonia•Kayserburg•Baldwin•Brodmann•Ritmüller
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Re: Are the new Baldwin pianos good? [Re: andrew7262] #2496490
01/02/16 11:47 PM
01/02/16 11:47 PM
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VERY nice pianos!

Norbert


www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: Are the new Baldwin pianos good? [Re: andrew7262] #2496508
01/03/16 01:10 AM
01/03/16 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by andrew7262
Are the Baldwins that are now made in China (after 2008) quality pianos? Are they good for an intermediate/advanced pianist? How do they compare with other brands, like Yamaha or Kawai?
I think many of us are still asking that question. I haven't encountered a new Chinese Baldwin grand "in the field."

I have encountered them in the showroom, and they presented very well on the showroom floor. So that is information, but it doesn't answer everything about the piano.

You need to be more specific when comparing anything to Yamaha and Kawai. Both of those (huge) companies make a full range of pianos, from basic consumer pianos to concert pianos which capably compete with the best in the world.

A comparison at price point would be a comparison worth exploring, but I'm not sure where the Baldwin prices fall compared to Yamaha or Kawai. I would expect something like the Yamaha C series to be significantly more expensive, but I don't know (and haven't checked in pianobuyer)


Pianist and Piano Teacher
Re: Are the new Baldwin pianos good? [Re: andrew7262] #2496679
01/03/16 02:27 PM
01/03/16 02:27 PM
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Great advice so far...

Here is my opinion, for what it's worth. smile

I think this is a scenario where someone who is interested in one of the new Gibson Baldwins, made in China, would have to step out on a limb, take a chance and see what happens.

If they like the piano up-front, perhaps it will retain it's tone and touch well into the future. Since there are not many (if any) reviews from owners who have owned one for a while, what other option is there, short of buying a piano with a better history/track record of longevity.

So, as the explorers of old traveled uncharted territory, so will the buyers of the new Gibson/Baldwins.

Just my .02

Rick



Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Are the new Baldwin pianos good? [Re: andrew7262] #2496684
01/03/16 02:35 PM
01/03/16 02:35 PM
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Steve Peterson Offline

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I played a new Baldwin BP-190 in the showroom and was very impressed. As a lover of classic Baldwins, I expected I wouldn't like the new Chinese-made Baldwins and was pleasantly surprised. Not the highest tier, but they played above my expectations and WELL above their price point. If you are looking for a grand piano in that price range, I would definitely consider Baldwin.


Cello, Piano, Electric Bass

1967 Baldwin SD-10 | Kawai MP11
Re: Are the new Baldwin pianos good? [Re: andrew7262] #2496693
01/03/16 03:05 PM
01/03/16 03:05 PM
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This Piano World member has a new Baldwin 165. Her ID here escapes me. She teaches on hers so she might be able to give you some information about how it is holding up although she hasn't had it very long.

https://arioso7.wordpress.com/


PW ID: shirlkirsten

Last edited by supersport; 01/03/16 03:10 PM.

David



Re: Are the new Baldwin pianos good? [Re: andrew7262] #2496703
01/03/16 03:32 PM
01/03/16 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by supersport
This Piano World member has a new Baldwin 165. Her ID here escapes me. She teaches on hers so she might be able to give you some information about how it is holding up although she hasn't had it very long.

https://arioso7.wordpress.com/

I'm not really a blog person, but I scrolled through her blog and saw the Baldwin in a few video clips, and, yes, it did sound good to my injured (literally) ears. smile

Like I said, sometimes you just have to take a chance and see where it takes you.

I would imagine using the piano to teach students would give it quite a work-out. I will say too, and I can't say this for a lot of piano music videos, all her pianos seemed to be in relatively good tune. That in itself gets a thumb from me. smile

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Are the new Baldwin pianos good? [Re: andrew7262] #2496721
01/03/16 05:01 PM
01/03/16 05:01 PM
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Norbert Offline
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Quote
I think this is a scenario where someone who is interested in one of the new Gibson Baldwins, made in China, would have to step out on a limb, take a chance and see what happens.


Not really.

Parsons in China has an excellent record making qality pianos for Kawai,Brodmann,Baldwin and a few others.

Outside Pearl River, they have grown considerably earning the respect by those who have bought their product before.

Gibsons has chosen them as the maker for their pianos.

You don't get there on "experimental" basis.

Norbert [not dealer..]


www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: Are the new Baldwin pianos good? [Re: Norbert] #2496727
01/03/16 05:34 PM
01/03/16 05:34 PM
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San Francisco Bay Area
master88er Offline
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Originally Posted by Norbert
Quote
I think this is a scenario where someone who is interested in one of the new Gibson Baldwins, made in China, would have to step out on a limb, take a chance and see what happens.


Not really.

Parsons in China has an excellent record making qality pianos for Kawai,Brodmann,Baldwin and a few others.

Outside Pearl River, they have grown considerably earning the respect by those who have bought their product before.

Gibsons has chosen them as the maker for their pianos.

You don't get there on "experimental" basis.

Norbert [not dealer..]


Sometimes, members of this forum can be excruciatingly thick headed.

The subject of BALDWIN has been debated ad-nauseum, usually promulgated by those having NO experience with the newer products.Those of us who have been in the industry a long time, and have worked with Baldwin products since the 70's have repeatedly stepped in to correct misinformation (aka, blatant lies).

Now, we have this thread which repeats some misinformation, and makes questionable and illogical statements implying it is risky if one purchases or even looks at the product. Additionally, some of the comments significantly depart from the OP's inquiry and, again, make blatant false statements.

FIRST: The OP (in another thread) indicated the Baldwin piano being considered is a Baldwin upright. As many know, BALDWIN UPRIGHT PIANOS ARE BUILT 100% BY BALDWIN IN THEIR OWN FACTORY!!!! The factory outside of Hong Kong is owned by Baldwin / Gibson, builds only Baldwin uprights and each piano is 100% Baldwin engineering, design and materials.

This is no different than Kawai or Yamaha (with factories in Indonesia, China, Korea, Mexico, USA or Macau) where Kawai or Yamaha own(ed) the factory and train(ed) the workers to build their products.

So, were people "taking a chance" when they bought Kawai UST7, 506M, CX-25 or Yamaha M1, P2, U1 products built in North American factories in the 1980's-90's? These were still Yamaha and Kawai pianos, "built for the North American Market."

Better yet, were Baldwin customers "step out on a limb" buying Baldwin Howard grands (aka, Kawai) or Story & Clark grands (aka Yamaha) in the 70's and 80's? Oh wait, let's go over to Europe... and this new fangled piano called Fazioli, which didn't exist until the late 1980's. Shouldn't we wait to see how that product is going to hold up?

True, the current Baldwin lineup of grands is made by Parsons - not exactly a newcomer to the stage. Like any OEM manufacturer, Parsons doesn't dictate the materials or design of Baldwin products... Baldwin does! To prove this to yourself, simply compare a Parsons brand (Brodmann, Toyo, Yangtze River <actually, fabuulous pianos>) to a similarly sized Baldwin. AGAIN, Parsons ONLY builds Baldwin grand piano for Gibson, NOT UPRIGHTS!

UPRIGHTS are build by Baldwin, so to those inferring that it is akin to "stepping out on a limb" or "taking a chance" to consider a new Baldwin I simply ask, "What do you have against American companies?"


Russell I. Kassman
R.KASSMAN, Purveyor of Fine Pianos
Berkeley, CA

FORMER US Rep.for C.Bechstein

SF Area Dealer: Steingraeber•Grotrian•Sauter•Estonia•Kayserburg•Baldwin•Brodmann•Ritmüller
www.rkassman.com
russell@rkassman.com
510.558.0765
Re: Are the new Baldwin pianos good? [Re: andrew7262] #2496740
01/03/16 06:23 PM
01/03/16 06:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,200
Georgia, USA
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Originally Posted by master88er
UPRIGHTS are build by Baldwin, so to those inferring that it is akin to "stepping out on a limb" or "taking a chance" to consider a new Baldwin I simply ask, "What do you have against American companies?"

It appears my comments struck a nerve with a couple of dealers here...

If so, I didn't do it on purpose, nor did I intend to "stir-up" any kind of controversy. If I offended you, I do apologize.

On the other hand, you interpreted/mis-interpreted my comments from an entirely different perspective/point of view than the actual context of my comments.

First of all, the OP posted a general question about the new Baldwin pianos...
Originally Posted by andrew7262
Are the Baldwins that are now made in China (after 2008) quality pianos? Are they good for an intermediate/advanced pianist? How do they compare with other brands, like Yamaha or Kawai?

No one responded to the OP's question in a timely manner to suit them, so they bumped their thread and asked another question.
Originally Posted by andrew7276
Anyone? I can't find any customer reviews online.

So, in an effort to help and respond to the OP's questions, I posted what I thought was a logical response. Andrew7262 stated they could not find any customer reviews online, so I posted what I thought was a general comment based on logic.

And now, I've been called-out/accused by two dealers, one who posted that they thought the new Baldwins were very nice pianos, and another who directed the OP to the PianoBuyeronline, of lying and posting misinformation on an internet forum (of course, Norbert didn't use the words lie or misinformation, but master88er did).

The comments I made were general comments, at least to me, that reflected what I thought was general logic, based on comments that other posters posted
Originally Posted by musicpassion
I think many of us are still asking that question. I haven't encountered a new Chinese Baldwin grand "in the field."

I have encountered them in the showroom, and they presented very well on the showroom floor. So that is information, but it doesn't answer everything about the piano.


However, it seems that my comments "step out on a limb, take a chance and see what happens" is a lie and misinformation.

I give up...

Think what you will, but Norbert and master88er, you both took my comments way out of context.

And, to top it off, I don't think the OP's questions have been answerd still.

Well, apparently, I certainly don't know the answers to the OP's questions, and my logic seems illogical (lies and misinformation) to some. smile

So, andrew7262, forget everything I said, and I was only trying to help.

Best regards,

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Are the new Baldwin pianos good? [Re: andrew7262] #2496765
01/03/16 07:17 PM
01/03/16 07:17 PM
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It is interesting to note that I've yet to hear a disparaging remark about the new Baldwins from anyone...owner, reviewer, dealer or even from those who just had the opportunity to play them.

I can't say the same about any other piano in their price range.

All the grands have rock maple inner AND outer rime, a feature that is found only on pianos of considerably higher price.

While it is true that none of us have a crystal ball, the construction of the new Baldwins is so solid, and in the case of the grands Parsons has a great track record), that one needn't worry about its longevity.


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My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
Re: Are the new Baldwin pianos good? [Re: master88er] #2496818
01/03/16 10:59 PM
01/03/16 10:59 PM
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musicpassion Offline
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Originally Posted by master88er
Sometimes, members of this forum can be excruciatingly thick headed.
Attacking members is not only rude and in poor taste, but also adds no substance to the conversation.
Quote
The subject of BALDWIN has been debated ad-nauseum, usually promulgated by those having NO experience with the newer products.Those of us who have been in the industry a long time, and have worked with Baldwin products since the 70's have repeatedly stepped in to correct misinformation (aka, blatant lies).
Yes the Baldwin dealers (such as yourself) have been quite vocal. And Norbert is quite vocal about Estonias. I don't think dealers are attempting to decieve anyone, but they (and you) are not a neutral source of information.


Pianist and Piano Teacher
Re: Are the new Baldwin pianos good? [Re: master88er] #2496831
01/04/16 01:00 AM
01/04/16 01:00 AM
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musicpassion Offline
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Originally Posted by master88er
This is no different than Kawai or Yamaha (with factories in Indonesia, China, Korea, Mexico, USA or Macau) where Kawai or Yamaha own(ed) the factory and train(ed) the workers to build their products.
Yamaha and Kawai still build their very best pianos in Japan. I don't think people would be asking questions if Baldwin were still building their very best pianos in USA... so no I don't thinks it's the same as Yamaha or Kawai. If Yamaha sent their *entire* production to Indonesia that would seem more the same to me.
Quote
Better yet, were Baldwin customers "step out on a limb" buying Baldwin Howard grands (aka, Kawai) or Story & Clark grands (aka Yamaha) in the 70's and 80's? Oh wait, let's go over to Europe... and this new fangled piano called Fazioli, which didn't exist until the late 1980's. Shouldn't we wait to see how that product is going to hold up?
I wouldn't have purchased a Fazioli in the late 1980s (nevermind my age at the time). I think plenty of other people would have felt the same. I'm not suggesting one ought to hesitate buying a Baldwin right now, however. The price range is enough lower than Fazioli that I don't expect the estalished history. I - and I think others on this forum - are simply reporting experience with the pianos. Many of us don't have a local Baldwin dealer, and that might contribute to seeing so few of the new Chinese Baldwins.

A further thought about Fazioli, since it was brought up: I have seen Fazioli in high use situations such as a piano teaching studio. I think it's possible it may require more voicing attention than, for example, a Steinway to keep it at it's best. I worded that very carefully because a broad study would be the only way to know that for sure. I have a very high regard for Fazioli pianos. But these little details are the things you find out about pianos in the long run that you don't know at first.

Last edited by musicpassion; 01/04/16 01:12 AM. Reason: more information

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Re: Are the new Baldwin pianos good? [Re: andrew7262] #2496878
01/04/16 07:12 AM
01/04/16 07:12 AM
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Slightly OT, but is there any Chinese piano manufacturer that has had the guts to proudly display their Chinese name on the fallboard in the West, besides Hailun? I guess Pearl River falls into the grey area.

Brodmann, Ritmuller, Parsons--All names you can easily write in Hanzi for sure!


2012 NY Steinway Model B | Kawai MP11 | Nord Stage 3 Compact | Moog Sub 37 | Behringer DeepMind 12 | Sequential Circuits Prophet 6 | Korg Prologue
Re: Are the new Baldwin pianos good? [Re: musicpassion] #2496907
01/04/16 10:39 AM
01/04/16 10:39 AM
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Rude and in poor taste ?

Our brother forum member has been subjected to a double measure of same over the years and in terms FAR stronger than a general observation of forum thick-headedness, a term I regard as mild given the terrain. I daresay that we are all, on occasion, guilty of same.

Yes, it's true that although the forum member in question IS a dealer, he always speaks as a pianist, a technician and a balanced THINKER. We are speaking here about a man of great generosity and consideration, qualities that I know for a fact.

Karl Watson,
Staten Island, NY


Re: Are the new Baldwin pianos good? [Re: Karl Watson] #2496925
01/04/16 12:02 PM
01/04/16 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Karl Watson
Rude and in poor taste ?

Our brother forum member has been subjected to a double measure of same over the years and in terms FAR stronger than a general observation of forum thick-headedness, a term I regard as mild given the terrain. I daresay that we are all, on occasion, guilty of same.

Yes, it's true that although the forum member in question IS a dealer, he always speaks as a pianist, a technician and a balanced THINKER. We are speaking here about a man of great generosity and consideration, qualities that I know for a fact.

Karl Watson,
Staten Island, NY

Totally agree. I think there are some dealers who endlessly promote their products, but Russell is not one of them...not even close.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 01/04/16 12:05 PM.
Re: Are the new Baldwin pianos good? [Re: andrew7262] #2496944
01/04/16 12:37 PM
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I don't see enough newer Baldwin's to be able to comment on quality. I think that's true in many areas of the country.




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