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Hi, are Kawai pianos fully sampled?, or they are a kind of hybrid technology as Roland SuperNatural?, which it has a sampled part and the other is physical modeling. I think James is perhaps the most suitable person to answer this question. I have understood that Kawai has several technologies PHI , UPHI , HI and HI - XL, the latter being the most advanced and expressive of all. Finally I ask all mentioned technologies have a physically modeled component?. Thanks.

Hello Fer,

Kawai's piano sounds utilise a combination of sampling and modelling.
The more advanced versions of 'Harmonic Imaging' (e.g. HI-XL) typically offer more modelling components.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
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Note that "modelling" is used to describe everything and nothing.

Did you see this? http://www.kawaius.com/digital/Features/sound_technology.html

There we learn that HI-XL has longer (attack) samples than PHI. There is no mention of any additional modeling (which does not mean that there is none).

From a Kawai brochure:

"On an acoustic piano, resonances produced by the strings, dampers, iron frame, soundboard, bridges, cabinet, etc.
contribute subtle tonal characteristics that enrich the playing and listening experience. The CA97 & CA67 recreate these various resonances using Acoustic Rendering modelling technology, with attributes such as Damper Resonance, String Resonance, Undamped String Resonance, Cabinet Resonance, etc. generated dynamically, in real-time, and giving Concert Artist owners the impression that they are playing a living, breathing instrument."

However, as at least some of this is already present in PHI, not sure how much HI-XL is adding here. I think I have read somewhere that "Undamped String Resonance" and "Cabinet Resonance" are new in either HI-XL or in 2015 CA series.

Also, I believe I have read somewhere that PHI has three layers, but HI-XL has six. Can't find the source at the moment. Didn't DPBSD project say PHI is four? That's not about modeling, though.

Hi James, thanks for your quick response... has HI-XL six layers of sampling?, cause in that way it would be the most powerful and complex sound generator available today in the market. Another question, are other sounds in MP7 sampling more modelling?. Cheers!.

Rubbish. And in any event the number of layers will not be disclosed by Kawai.

This.

Merry Christmas.

Why not?... Roland claims that SN technology present in Integra 7 has four 4 layers more modelling?... Please explain us your point!

Excuse me but i dont understand your point...

Because Kawai believes it's better to assess an instrument based on how it actually sounds, not how many layers are written in the specifications table.

Merry Christmas.

James
x

Ok thanks again James... and what about the non piano sounds in MP7, are they sampled more modelling too like piano sounds?.

I expect it's a combination of sampling and modelling, yes.

Merry Christmas.

James
x

Does the number of layers though specifically matter?
The Krome piano has 8 layers but depending on the curve one is only going to be hitting a few of the layers.
Not sure how many my SP280 has (think its 3) but don't really care because I have no control over that.
I am not saying it is not important but one has to also consider which midi velocities they will be targeting most frequently relative to the scale for the corresponding piano.

I agree with James here. HI-XL may have a lot of layers but at least on ff one can hear them switch, which is unfortunate and unrealistic, so one would be doubtful to call it the most advanced implementation if one listens instead of just looking at the "specs".

Conversely, some Kawai pianos are 87 instead of 88 note sampled. I am sure the engineers decided repeating a sample was better than living with a recording flaw or a very particular quirk of the source piano. (A flaw many software pianos with theoretically better "specs" suffer from)

Specifications are handy though. Most of us have much less time to evaluate DP than we will spend playing them. So knowing what to look of listen for helps an informed decision.

It's easier to appreciate the difference between GF2 and RM G3 if one knows the pivots differ and one should play a bit inside the keys.

Imagine trying to decide between PHA Concert and Premium and not knowing the mechanics are identical. You'd waste so much time.

Ok thanks, and how you compare Kawai HI-XL against Roland SN technology?... Cheers!

There are some clips comparing them against each other and against an acoustic in the DPBSD thread.

I'd say that SN has some advantages (better decay, smoother layering) but HI-XL has a bit more timbre variation (maybe it's improved on HP6xx/LX17). Also new Kawai models have 3 distinct pianos while for many Roland there is only a single SN voice and not everyone will like it.

Ok thanks Garf, I have Kawai MP7 because i prefer this key action over Roland RD800, but I would like to purchase an Integra 7 to add the Roland SN piano to my sound palette, of course I understood that PHAIII / IV are key actions which better connect with their SN sound engine, still, with this action Kawai RHII would get a similar response in expressiveness and finger to sound connection to the Integra 7 as you would with Roland keys mentioned above?... Cheers!.

Fer,

I had the Integra 7 with the px5s, I thought it's piano was not as good as the px5s.

Hi emenelton, thanks for your answer... are you saying that Casio PX5s piano sound is better than the highly regarded Roland Integra 7 SN piano sound?.

Yes, I got the Integra with some grand plans. The Integra is used by pros though for it's other sounds.