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Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced
PianoWorksATL #2491733 12/18/15 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by PianoWorksATL
I disagree that letoff or "escapement simulation" is a defining characteristic of what makes a grand action. What you describe has been talked about at some length earlier in this thread.

The thing is this: there must be something in the construction of the action that makes it feel more like the Kawai Grand Feel and less like an actual grand. As I said, I spent a lot of time switching between the Casio, the AvantGrand N1 and acoustic grands (in particular a Grotrian and a Shigeru, what bliss!). The AvantGrand seemed to belong in the same family as the grands. If it wasn't for certain characteristics of the sound of the N1, I think I could have closed my eyes and fooled myself that I was playing a real grand, but that wasn't the case with the Casio. Why is this?

Quote
Yours is not the first review that felt the velocity curve felt a little faster than natural. I prefer the "Heavy 1" setting, and IMO, I would also tweak the curve to be even happier.

Yes, I would also like to see what could be achieved by detailed tweaking of the curve. For me there seems always to be a portion of the curve that is too steep (too much change in sound for a comparatively small change in touch force), no matter what touch setting I choose.

Quote
Did you happen to play with any of the "Scenes" in the GP-500? I'm having fun with those.

I didn't play much with them: it was enough to test the three main sounds with different touch settings and a few different reverberation settings.



Steinway A grand (1919), Richard Lipp grand (1913), Yamaha P2 upright (1983), Casio PX-150 digital (2013)
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Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced
sorrownightingale #2491736 12/18/15 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by sorrownightingale
MRC,

Is the GP-500 as good as the Yamaha Avantgrand NU1,or even better, for practice classical repertoire?,please, pros and cons.

Thanks!!!

The instruments are quite different. I will stick with my NU1, but I could well imagine practicing on the Casio as well. I prefer the touch of the NU1, but that's a personal matter. Added to that, I already have an acoustic grand, so it's not bad for me to have the upright action of the NU1 as a contrast.

I don't have time to run a detailed comparison of the two: I might do later on.


Steinway A grand (1919), Richard Lipp grand (1913), Yamaha P2 upright (1983), Casio PX-150 digital (2013)
Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced
Mike_Martin #2491884 12/18/15 09:12 PM
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MRC,
I'd be interested in a detailed comparison too. We're in a slightly different position to many on this forum: we recently moved to China and had to leave our belovèd 20 yr old Yamaha C1 in storage.
We've decided to buy or rent a hybrid as there are tremendous variations in humidity here, and it would be better for playing in a flat with little or no accoustic insulation.
The problem is that there are very few high-end digital pianos marketed here - the Kawai range stops at the CA30, and only the Yamaha NU1 is available, no N1, N2 or N3 ! Import duties are prohibitive so we can't consider that route.
However both the Casio GP300 and GP500 are announced for next year, and given the stunning reviews in the music press we decided to wait before deciding whether to go for the GP500 or NU1. Roughly same price, pseudo-grand action vs upright action...
Don't like overly bright piano sounds & have been playing Yamaha accoustic pianos for >20 years (U3, C1 and currently a U1 on hire)
Frustratingly there are no Casios to try out here yet (although they were launched at an event back in September). We did manage to try at GP300 in Singapore, but haven't been able to find a GP500 to try out or do a side-by-side test with the NU1.

SO very interested to hear your thoughts if you (or anyone else on here) have tried both models side-by-side. We play almost exclusively classical music, solo and duets, and we're both "advanced level" pianists. Not particularly interested in lots of bells and whistles (nor in paying for them), just want an excellent accoustic piano substitute for the next 3 years.

Thanks

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced
ExpatPianist #2492098 12/19/15 03:38 PM
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@Expatpianist

Have spent many hours now comparing. If you're limited budget-wise to £3000 or below, then the Casios can't be beaten in my view. The 300 is better value though.

If you're a classical pianist, then the touch.and even-ness of tone are more critical. I personally don't like the upright action of the NU1, so I'd seriously consider the N1 (or of course N2). The Casios can sound better on a note by note basis, but play a Chopin Ballade or similar and the overall experience is much better on the N1.

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced
Chris Warren #2492245 12/20/15 05:14 AM
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Thanks for sharing your experience Chris. Unfortunately we're limited by availability, not budget here in China. The N1, N2 & N3 are not available here, but the NU1 is, because I understand it's made locally.

I wasn't overly impressed with the playing action of the NU1 I tried out (too heavy for my taste), although the sound was excellent. The Casios won't be available here until spring 2016 so I guess I'll just have to be patient and make my decision once I've tried one.

Our rented U1 is an excellent interrim measure, even though the tuning goes up and down with the humidity (and it rains alot here)

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced
Mike_Martin #2492262 12/20/15 06:26 AM
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What about the kawai ca-97 or roland lx-17? (or even the ca-67 or roland hp-605, even though you say you are not limited by budget, the price difference is significant)
Can you try those there? It is all very subjective and even though some consider something (the casio in this instance) way better, others may feel completely different. I, for one, know that I prefer the roland sound and playability compared to the other contenders in the same price range. I even prefer it's sound compared to the n1 (which for my taste doesn't have such a great sound, even though the keys are arguably as real as they get, whole a bit on the heavy side).
I haven't yet had the chance to try the casio and I'm looking forward to it, but it might take a while. The same goes for Roland's new series, but first chance I get, I'll really enjoy testing them thoroughly.
If you have the chance, you should really give those suggestions a try as well, you might find you really like them, and if you don't, all the better. You'll know your tastes and the options out there better afterwards, and be able to make a better, more suitable decision for you.
The best of luck!

Last edited by mcoll; 12/20/15 06:28 AM.
Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced
mcoll #2492272 12/20/15 07:25 AM
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Thanks for your suggestions, but as I said in my post, the 'best' Kawai available here is the CA-30, which I have tried, and didn't like at all. However Roland's LX-17 appears to be available, according to their chinese website, so I'll try to find one to play. I tried one of thier models, a grand piano look-alike (even the sound and touch bore no ressemblance to a grand piano), a couple of months ago but haven't seen, or tried, the newer models.
Howeve, unless I'm mistaken, it's not a hybrid, and I did want a hybrid...

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced
Mike_Martin #2492981 12/22/15 05:43 PM
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Can someone point me to a dealer locator for these hybrids? (Not seeing it on the website).

Thx.

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced
Info2011 #2492985 12/22/15 05:57 PM
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New demo by Max Tempia (in Italian):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBUD7HHQm7M


Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced
Info2011 #2492986 12/22/15 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Info2011
Can someone point me to a dealer locator for these hybrids? (Not seeing it on the website).

Thx.


In the USA currently here -
http://www.casiomusicgear.com/wheretobuy


-Mike Martin
Casio America

Casio Music Forums
Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced
sorrownightingale #2493001 12/22/15 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by sorrownightingale
New demo by Max Tempia (in Italian):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBUD7HHQm7M



I can hear looping in the bass note at around 2:38. (When I read the marketing material, I was left with the impression that just perhaps Casio was attempting to do something like Roland's SN, but I don't think so)

Greg.

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced
Mike_Martin #2493080 12/23/15 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike_Martin
Originally Posted by Info2011
Can someone point me to a dealer locator for these hybrids? (Not seeing it on the website).

Thx.


In the USA currently here -
http://www.casiomusicgear.com/wheretobuy


I just tried that -- "Grand Hybrid" dealers are really thin! None in San Francisco CA, none in Seattle WA, only two in Los Angeles.

. . . Stuff the channel! Stuff the channel!



. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced
Mike_Martin #2493227 12/23/15 01:55 PM
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Mike: Could that dealer locator webpage of Casio's be expanded to be more than a 50 mile radius? No dealers within Williamsburg Virginia (23188)? Really?


Nord Grand, Kawai MP11 (v1), iMac 2017, Yamaha HS8's, Sennheiser 650, Focusrite 2i4, Pianoteq 6.4.0, Steinway Model A, Mason and Hamlin Model AA, Piano Marvel: 3C
Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced
HwyStar #2493241 12/23/15 02:50 PM
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There aren't any Celviano Hybrid Dealers within 50 miles of Richmond, Norfolk or Va Beach either. The only one I could find within 50 miles of any Virginia city was in MD.

Maryland Music
9143-B Red Branch Rd.
Columbia MD 21045


A long long time ago, I can still remember
How that music used to make me smile....
Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced
Mike_Martin #2493341 12/23/15 10:37 PM
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Thanks Kbeaumont!


Nord Grand, Kawai MP11 (v1), iMac 2017, Yamaha HS8's, Sennheiser 650, Focusrite 2i4, Pianoteq 6.4.0, Steinway Model A, Mason and Hamlin Model AA, Piano Marvel: 3C
Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced
Mike_Martin #2497255 01/05/16 05:31 AM
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How do you define the touch between NU1, GP-500 and CA97?, for me the sound is secondary, the touch is most important because if necessary I would use Pianoteq, Vienna Imperial or American D software pianos.

Last edited by sorrownightingale; 01/05/16 05:32 AM.
Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced
Mike_Martin #2497259 01/05/16 06:19 AM
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@sorrownightingale:

they are very different. NU1, is an upright action. Close to a B-series, so even a somewhat low-end upright. I would not touch it. It is clever marketing, but not so good mechanics. I feel at home at once, but that it because I have an old broken-down upright at home...

I rather like the feel of the CA97, it feels like the "real thing", but the sound is not very convincing to me. Note: the CA67 is mechanically the same so if you want to use external sources it is a cheaper solution. I find the black keys a little to rough (textured) for my taste, but I guess this you get used to in a few hours.

The GP-500/300 are again mechanically the same. I found it a little too light mechanically for my taste. But the global mixture is in someways quite nice. Decay of the sound is too short.

I also rather liked a lot the mechanics of the newer Roland's but not the sound -- above all on headphones.


More Geese than Swans now live, more Fools than Wise.
Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced
Mike_Martin #2498025 01/07/16 11:55 AM
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FWIW, beginner experience and all.

Had a GP 500 on display in the the musicroom store surprise surprise as I was picking up some sheet music the other day. Unfortunately, after the promo period store person said they moved it to a wall location with walls left/right and behind up against it. I had no phones with me to try or test as that wasn't the purpose of the day, just to buy some sheets so I only had a very short go.

Looked very nice, the sound did not project well, but I'd say that's because of how it was positioned. It was hard to form an opinion on the sound sample because of those issues.

That said, with the few minutes on it, keys felt great, lovely, no noticeable letoff/escapement I could feel, welcome, I like grin , Not being an acoustic man and all and not particularly enjoying the Kawai GF because of that rather pronounced letoff when I tried it. The Casio felt like a really nice responsive key bed to me, not too heavy either compared to the Grand feel experience I had few weeks ago, were it all felt a bit too labour intensive for my liking.

I sure would like to try it out more seriously one day.

Last edited by Alexander Borro; 01/07/16 11:57 AM.

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Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various...
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Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced
Mike_Martin #2504813 01/28/16 03:05 AM
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I'm a longtime pianist that's excited about buying a digital piano for 70% piano playing and 30% hooking up to a software sequencer for arranging/composing multitimbral stuff (for jazz combos, etc.)

I just discovered the new Roland digital pianos and was planning to check them out this weekend, but...
- I'm dyin' to also try the GP-500, and it seems there's only one Celviano dealer in the entire SF Bay Area? (over an hour drive from my place, though I guess that's not the end of the world)
- I've also not been able to discern whether the GP-500 has a bank of General Midi instruments (like the Roland LX-17) that I could use when layering from a DAW.

Help, please? smile

Thanks!

P.S. -- I've also seen very limited smatterings of LX-17/LX-7/GP-500/GP-300 comparisons... both subjective and objective. Would love to hear more! Am I correct in assuming these are reasonably in the same league quality-wise?

Last edited by ThatAdamGuy; 01/28/16 03:32 AM.

My music stuff (from my days before I became a lapsed hobbyist-pianist/composer)
Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced
Mike_Martin #2504827 01/28/16 04:21 AM
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I have played the LX-17 and Casio-500 side by side...

1) I prefer the keyboard of the LX, despite the publicity that Casio makes on their mechanics. I find the Casio light and a little unrealistic compared to an acoustic.

2) The LX-17 really fills a room, I think for a small hall/public space it would be great choice. The Casio felt more intimate, perhaps in a home size space it would be about right. If you are looking for a piano that does /not/ annoy the neighbours the Roland is perhaps the wrong choice!!

3) I preferred the headphone sound of the Casio. Without the LX speaker system
if felt rough and very artificial. Shame there is not a specific headphone sound.

4) Casio decay is a little too rapid.

5) I Think I preferred the steinway sound on the casio despite the collaboration with Bechstein.


--
The casio is sold as a piano, not a general midi instrument ... the manuals are on the web site so you can check all the settings. There are not so many buttons-- which for me is a plus!


More Geese than Swans now live, more Fools than Wise.
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