Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
What's Hot!!
Mr. PianoWorld - the full interview
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


Who's Online Now
75 registered members (accordeur, cathryn999, Alex873, AaronSF, bsntn99, Blues beater, Bruce In Philly, 16 invisible), 1,465 guests, and 6 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Kawai ES8 action vs VPC1 vs MP11 #2491660
12/18/15 05:32 AM
12/18/15 05:32 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 627
Denmark
pinkfloydhomer Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
pinkfloydhomer  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 627
Denmark
Anyone compared the action of the ES8 to VPC1 and/or MP11?

The ES8 and VPC1 cost about the same here, the MP11 costs about 1.5 times more. I know that the VPC1 is just a controller while the ES8 and MP11 has sounds, speakers etc. I would probably use the built-in sounds and speakers some of the time, but the most important part for me is the action since it cannot be replaced, while all of them can be used as MIDI controllers to run software pianos.

So: Is the new action of the ES8 better then the one in VPC1? As good as the one in MP11?


Nordiska 120CA (Dongbei) upright from about 2004. Yamaha CP33 digital. Sennheiser HD 600.
(ad) ROLAND

Click Here

Re: Kawai ES8 action vs VPC1 vs MP11 [Re: pinkfloydhomer] #2491662
12/18/15 05:59 AM
12/18/15 05:59 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,552
Melbourne, Australia
A
ando Offline
5000 Post Club Member
ando  Offline
5000 Post Club Member
A

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,552
Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted by pinkfloydhomer

So: Is the new action of the ES8 better then the one in VPC1?


No, it's below the VPC1 and further still below MP11. Subjective and all that...

Re: Kawai ES8 action vs VPC1 vs MP11 [Re: pinkfloydhomer] #2491664
12/18/15 06:14 AM
12/18/15 06:14 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,291
M
maurus Offline
1000 Post Club Member
maurus  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,291
Exactly. In terms of action, MP11 > VPC1 > ES8.

Of these three, the VPC1 action is the most substantial/heavy action, so there may be some who prefer the VPC1 action even over the MP11 action, whereas there also will be several who prefer the ES8 action over the VPC1 action. The difference between the VPC1 action and the MP11 action is rather small in my experience (I own the former and have played the latter). Try them out yourself.


Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.
Re: Kawai ES8 action vs VPC1 vs MP11 [Re: maurus] #2491670
12/18/15 06:48 AM
12/18/15 06:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 627
Denmark
pinkfloydhomer Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
pinkfloydhomer  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 627
Denmark
The most important thing for me is that I can practice technique such as trills and fast playing etc on it (I mostly play Bach) and have it be as close as possible to a quality grand piano. I should be able to transfer my technique directly. It should not feel as going from something fake to something real.

Last edited by pinkfloydhomer; 12/18/15 07:11 AM.

Nordiska 120CA (Dongbei) upright from about 2004. Yamaha CP33 digital. Sennheiser HD 600.
(ad) SWEETWATER
Sweetwater - Lowest Prices on Gear
Re: Kawai ES8 action vs VPC1 vs MP11 [Re: pinkfloydhomer] #2491681
12/18/15 07:37 AM
12/18/15 07:37 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,291
M
maurus Offline
1000 Post Club Member
maurus  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,291
Then go for VPC1 or (even better) MP11.

Of course due to digital sound generation there will always remain a gap between practicing on the DP and on the grand. The finer details of expression will in the end require practicing on a grand. Perhaps (but I have no personal experience here) a modeled sound (pianoteq) may come closest but to get the touch-sound connection close to the real thing remains a challenge for digital setups.

On the other hand there also is a gap between practicing on an upright (depending on the particular instrument) and playing a grand which might be similarly challenging than that between, say, an MP11 and a grand.

Re: Kawai ES8 action vs VPC1 vs MP11 [Re: pinkfloydhomer] #2491702
12/18/15 09:12 AM
12/18/15 09:12 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,394
Boynton Beach, FL
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Morodiene  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,394
Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted by pinkfloydhomer
The most important thing for me is that I can practice technique such as trills and fast playing etc on it (I mostly play Bach) and have it be as close as possible to a quality grand piano. I should be able to transfer my technique directly. It should not feel as going from something fake to something real.


You will want the MP11 for fast playing. You can on the VPC1, but it's a bit of a workhorse.

Keep in mind that the MP11 does not contain any onboard speakers. You will need to purchase powered monitors (I have a pair of JBL LSR305), and most likely headphones as well for silent practice.

Really to know for sure, you need to test these yourself. It's difficult to test play a VPC1 since it requires being hooked up to software, but there are other Kawai DPs that use the same action, so playing them can give you a sense of what to expect.

To test an MP11 if you can't find one, you can play a CA65/95. The new CA67/97 is a later version of the GF action on the MP11, but perhaps similar enough if you can't get something with the GF action.

The VPC1 action (RM3-II) is also found on the CA17, I believe, but not sure you can have access to that. I'm sure Kawai James will be able to offer some other suggestions.

But really, it is worth trying them out. Action is very important, especially for classical playing, and it is such a personal preference as to what a "good" action is, that no one can tell you what is best. You may love the ES8.


private piano/voice teacher FT

[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Re: Kawai ES8 action vs VPC1 vs MP11 [Re: pinkfloydhomer] #2491727
12/18/15 11:00 AM
12/18/15 11:00 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,338
UK
A
Alexander Borro Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Alexander Borro  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,338
UK
FWIW very little, being beginner and all but recently I had the privilege of trying grand feel 2, that should be relatively close to the keys in the MP 11 and a CA 17 which has he same key bed as the VPC1.

Just to throw it in there, but I found these to be rather a different overall experience, it is all relative to your perception and putting it into words is not easy. I'll try.

I didn't think there was a great deal of difference between the VPC1/ CA67 keys near the ends of the key sticks that I could sense, but where I felt more strongly about where it is often said it is very small difference to some is the shorter pivot, that I really felt. If your fingers are about half way up the keys, the keys begin to feel heavier and heavier to the touch, this made it overall a harder keyboard to work I thought to keep evenness on some notes, for example with chords where one or more fingers are further up.

In that sense when you look at the pictures the pivot is rather short, not dissimilar to my Casio perhaps on the white keys where I can feel it too, but that keyboard is overall fairly light to the touch, and o' course you adapt with brain/muscle memory to that, not that I find it a desirable feature as such, but I live with it fine on the Casio for example at this stage in my learning.

To that end I found grand feel rather more comfortable and consistent to play where ever you are on the key bed.

Just sayin' 'coz if I feel it as a beginner, you may too, and it may surprise some. For example having watched pianomanchuck's videos before he too would say it hardly matters in the difference,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqQ4oaOCSXQ

Not sure that was my perception after actually trying them out.

In a nutshell I would put it like a slope of resistance building up as you move up the keys that can be felt and sense, OTOH grand feel 2 I did not feel that at all, it was more like the pivot was mile behind the keyboard it felt so consistent in that sense. In reality, it is only of the order of inches or an inch or whatever it is, but a noticeable difference it makes .. I thought so anyway, but your YMMV smile


Selftaught since June 2014.
Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various...
Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos.
[Linked Image] 12x ABF recitals.
My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro

Moderated by  Piano World 

(ad)
Sweetwater - Keyboards
Sweetwater
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Curriculum of techniques for various levels?
by cathryn999. 11/17/18 10:25 PM
Ever heard of Yamaha SCLP-5450??
by Sean L. 11/17/18 09:39 PM
Disobedient pinkies & lazy thumbs
by Tyrone Slothrop. 11/17/18 08:06 PM
Modulation
by Alex873. 11/17/18 07:26 PM
Problem with sound on Yamaha DGX-630?
by Sophiex. 11/17/18 06:34 PM
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Petrof
Forum Statistics
Forums40
Topics188,391
Posts2,762,079
Members91,513
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Please Support Our Advertisers
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

Sweetwater

PianoTeq Petrof
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2