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Re: Miserable Kawai keyboard quality - similar experiences?
jazzist #2491097 12/16/15 09:59 AM
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It must be very frustrating having any issue on an instrument, regardless of manufacturer.
With my recent purchase of the Kawai ES8, I was advised that the manufacturer warranty was being increased, which would indicate an increased level of confidence in their product, if anything? However I'm not sure if that is model specific, or even region specific..


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Re: Miserable Kawai keyboard quality - similar experiences?
jazzist #2491103 12/16/15 10:30 AM
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Helpful or not, I have to admire KawaiJames attempting to address all the complaints in this thread. Kudos.

Re: Miserable Kawai keyboard quality - similar experiences?
jazzist #2491127 12/16/15 12:01 PM
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"Helpful or not, I have to admire KawaiJames attempting to address all the complaints in this thread. Kudos."

Concur with that--- big time. In fact, when I was shopping for my RX-5, I asked Darlene why they had chosen to be a Kawai distributor. She said, "Because they're so great to do business with! They're very aggressive with taking care of consumer satisfaction. Any time we have a problem, they're right on it."

My piano tech said very much the same thing, and furnished several examples, including a few from the DP side of the company.

I couldn't tell you from my own experience--- I have two Kawai instruments and haven't had any problems requiring Customer Service attention. And it's not because they're so perfect that they could never have a problem. Darlene continued by saying, "Everything made by human hands can, some time or other, be imperfect. But when we contact Kawai with a problem, they take care of it right away. Just like that."

My personal observation is that they do an especially lovely job with their keyboards.


Clef

Re: Miserable Kawai keyboard quality - similar experiences?
jazzist #2491133 12/16/15 12:20 PM
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+1 the consummate professional, and always unbiased, a rare quality these days in sales or people that work for a particular a product line.

Now, I thought the GF keybeds looked great and solid on the Kawais in a recent shop visit, they may not have agreed with me so much, probably more my problem, but they certainly looked and felt very solid on all the shop models and seemed to have a quality to them I thought.

Very little noise from the wooden keys was a nice bonus too, sure there were some minor gaps a bit bigger on some keys, never bothered me to the touch. My Casio has some minor gaps here and there on some keys too, no problem.

See acoustics in shops far worse looking that that, with different keys heights too and still considered okay to play.

I do suspect there are more often handling issues in transport where the keys become unset, and that is perhaps not helping when buying them, so these recurring reports that appear on here, do not reflect fairly the actual quality.

I saw a video once how they were packaged and wonder for such designs, if a support bracket/clamp would help that sits on top of the keys, with a bit of soft padding underneath to allow for vibrations so the keys don't crack under rough handling during transport. With that, if the keybed got turned upside down, it would probably be fine too. Often they just stick a bit of tape over them to hold them in place and that's it, perhaps not enough.


Selftaught since June 2014.
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Re: Miserable Kawai keyboard quality - similar experiences?
jazzist #2491209 12/16/15 04:08 PM
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Hi James -

Thank for your reply; as always, I appreciate your involvement. (+1 on TonyBanks above) And very glad to hear that you’re in the QC meetings!

As far as Kawai units that I’ve owned:
ES6
ES7 (two units)
ES100
CE220 (No problems with that one.)

FYI, another issue that I had, in addition to the ones you noted, was when I received the original ES7 back… there was a clicking/whooshing noise on a key. So, had to bring that one in again for repair. Turns out that when initially repaired the unit, the cables hadn’t been properly bunched or seated, so the key was brushing against those.

Again, thanks for your help in the past; in truth, you were and are invaluable.

Thx.

Re: Miserable Kawai keyboard quality - similar experiences?
Info2011 #2491260 12/16/15 07:28 PM
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Hello Info2011,

Originally Posted by Info2011
Thank for your reply; as always, I appreciate your involvement. (+1 on TonyBanks above) And very glad to hear that you’re in the QC meetings!


Thank you for your kind words. Attending the QC meetings over the last year or so has really helped my understanding of the manufacturing process, so I'm very glad to participate. It can be a little nerve-racking when required to submit or query information in Japanese, but so far I've been able to make myself understood.

Originally Posted by Info2011
As far as Kawai units that I’ve owned:
ES6
ES7 (two units)
ES100
CE220 (No problems with that one.)


Okay, thank you for clarifying. It's good to hear that you also have a wooden-key Kawai DP to complement the portable plastic-key boards.

Originally Posted by Info2011
FYI, another issue that I had, in addition to the ones you noted, was when I received the original ES7 back… there was a clicking/whooshing noise on a key. So, had to bring that one in again for repair. Turns out that when initially repaired the unit, the cables hadn’t been properly bunched or seated, so the key was brushing against those.


Ah, that's a shame - a rare error by the servicing folks at Kawai America.

Originally Posted by Info2011
Again, thanks for your help in the past; in truth, you were and are invaluable.


Happy to help - thank you once again for your kind words, despite the issues you have experienced.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Miserable Kawai keyboard quality - similar experiences?
jazzist #2491277 12/16/15 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jazzist
Anybody had similar experiences?
No.

Re: Miserable Kawai keyboard quality - similar experiences?
jazzist #2491309 12/17/15 12:12 AM
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I bought a KAWAI MP7 in February 2015, after much deliberation. It had 2 "clicky" keys from new, however when I reported this, I was asked by Kawai Australia to play the keyboard quite a bit for a week and see if the noises went away....and they did. "Wonderful!"...however, by June 2015 two other consecutive keys began making much louder clicking sounds. I had another minor warranty issue to get sorted out, but the clicking got worse. In the end, due to some unfortunate issues connected with the warranty work, Kawai generously offered a replacement keyboard. I had not expected that, but was very appreciative of the high level of customer service. The replacement MP7 arrived in August 2015, but within a few days developed a clicky G4 key and also a spongy click on a key near the far right end of the keybed. I did report it (so a record is kept on file over the generous 5 year warranty period), but I kind of figured that the odd click here or there was probably going to be considered as being within "normal" manufacturing tolerances/standards. [All DP keybeds get noisier over time with use, and some are inherently really loud and thumpy (if not clicky) right from new, but I guess owners understandably get a bit jittery when they encounter keybed issues on a new unit, especially as they just shelled out a decent sum of money.]

Since then, I have continued to enjoy playing my MP7, and remain somewhat biased that this is one VERY good stage piano, supported by great Kawai customer service. Yes, we know the DPs are assembled in Indonesia, so we automatically tend to assume glitches in QA standards, but although there are genuine issues encountered by some users (usually reported in these forums), this doesn't mean that everyone has problems.

Astute forum members will note in previous posts/threads re: MP7 that key G4 tended to have a noticeable difference in tone...i.e. perhaps best described as being a bit louder/brighter/ringy. It would seem that this is not a fault as such, just a result of the extensive individual note sampling of the KAWAI shigeru piano that was prepared for the sampling process.

smile


1993 Roland JV1000 76 note workstation synth with Pop and VE-GS1 expansion boards ] 1994 Roland JV1080 Multi-timbral sound module ] 1994 Roland KR4500 Intelligent Piano ] 2008 Korg MicroX sound module ] 2015 Kawai MP7 Digital Stage Piano
Re: Miserable Kawai keyboard quality - similar experiences?
Just Alan #2491318 12/17/15 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Just Alan
Astute forum members will note in previous posts/threads re: MP7 that key G4 tended to have a noticeable difference in tone...i.e. perhaps best described as being a bit louder/brighter/ringy. It would seem that this is not a fault as such, just a result of the extensive individual note sampling of the KAWAI shigeru piano that was prepared for the sampling process. smile


Oh, Bless'ed Be The Saints. (G4) is alive and well, again! It is The Gift That Keeps On Giving! I wonder who, when and ...

:-)





Jon ...

Kawai CA67
A Tired, Retired, Dreamer ...
Re: Miserable Kawai keyboard quality - similar experiences?
Morodiene #2491330 12/17/15 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Morodiene
Coins cannot allow for velocity at all, so you're not really measuring what is needed to play a key.


Anyway. I first felt the difference and then measured with coins. So there is a difference. No doubt. There might scientifically be better ways to measure it, but for my case I really do not care.

Last edited by jazzist; 12/17/15 02:41 AM.
Re: Miserable Kawai keyboard quality - similar experiences?
jazzist #2491344 12/17/15 03:40 AM
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jazzist, so you measured the weight required to get the key down. That could have multiple reasons. What happens if you measure the weight required to keep the key down? Like, you press both keys down and then see how many pieces of gold are required to make them stay down.


Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)
Re: Miserable Kawai keyboard quality - similar experiences?
Kawai James #2491985 12/19/15 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Hello Hookxs
Originally Posted by Hookxs
On topic: yes, I had (and have) experience with faulty Kawai equipment.


For the sake of the thread, it may be useful to be a little more specific.

I recall that you did not appreciate some characteristics of the Kawai sound (confirmed by re-reading some of your posts from a couple of years ago), which ultimately led to you returning your CA95.


Finally found the time to answer. I had these close encounters with Kawai products (meaning either I bought it or my close friend bought it and I played it or once even borrowed for a short period of time):

- CA 95: one key was clicking (mechanical), one key produced resonances somewhere in the cabinet (mechanical), (at least) one key produced completely unrealistic "resonances" and amplification when played with pedal (software issue, I even posted some waveforms here and it was reported later by other people). The third problem was the reason I returned the piano. Other than that, a good DP. I have some reservations with the Kawai Ex samples, but this is not a quality-control issue and a matter of personal preference, however, some people expressed the exact same reservations here in this forum.
- ES8: no problems
- ES7 dedicated stand: one foot was missing its "tip" and the stand was horribly wobbly
- ES100: no problems

Re: Miserable Kawai keyboard quality - similar experiences?
jazzist #2492438 12/20/15 08:37 PM
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Thank you Hookxs.


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Miserable Kawai keyboard quality - similar experiences?
jazzist #2494259 12/27/15 07:34 PM
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I just received an ES100 that has a few clicky keys but is otherwise fantastic. Is this enough of an issue to warrant a replacement or is it an accepted quality variance?

Re: Miserable Kawai keyboard quality - similar experiences?
jazzist #2494262 12/27/15 07:45 PM
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IMHO - If it's enough to bother you, then contact Kawai for replacement or service. If not, have fun with your new piano.


Bert
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Re: Miserable Kawai keyboard quality - similar experiences?
jazzist #2495055 12/30/15 06:05 AM
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I'm going to buy a digital piano (probably the first week of the new year) and currently the one I plan to get is Kawai ES100. I'm based in London, but so far the best bundle offer I have seen with free delivery to the UK is from a German shop (http://www.thomann.de/gb/kawai_es_100_deluxe_bundle.htm). However, looking at people having numerous issues, I'm wondering if I should pay a bit more and get the DP from UK and only the stand from Germany, which is still much cheaper there.

I know that number of complaints in a forum is not necessarily a good statistical representation of probability of having issues with any brand or model, but still it makes me think before buying from another country. Even very small issues might be troublesome to solve logisticwise, and I'm quite eager to start learning and playing as soon as possible.

Last edited by Nedy; 12/30/15 06:06 AM.
Re: Miserable Kawai keyboard quality - similar experiences?
jazzist #2495074 12/30/15 07:48 AM
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I agree that issues people have had isn't a full representation, but anyone can get issues with any instrument from any manufacturer, so I bought locally on the basis that I can easily go and see them anytime, and take it back in easily if there is an issue. None so far with my ES8 but there is a long warranty...
Good luck with your decision


Kawai ES8
Re: Miserable Kawai keyboard quality - similar experiences?
jazzist #2495097 12/30/15 09:03 AM
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I recently bought an ES100 which I like a lot. It's the instrument I use for gigs.
However, I did buy it from an very reliable dealer within driving distance. Unless the price difference is huge, it's good to know that you've got someone who'll stand behind what they sold you.

Re: Miserable Kawai keyboard quality - similar experiences?
Nedy #2495113 12/30/15 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Nedy
I'm going to buy a digital piano (probably the first week of the new year) and currently the one I plan to get is Kawai ES100. I'm based in London, but so far the best bundle offer I have seen with free delivery to the UK is from a German shop (http://www.thomann.de/gb/kawai_es_100_deluxe_bundle.htm). However, looking at people having numerous issues, I'm wondering if I should pay a bit more and get the DP from UK and only the stand from Germany, which is still much cheaper there.

I know that number of complaints in a forum is not necessarily a good statistical representation of probability of having issues with any brand or model, but still it makes me think before buying from another country. Even very small issues might be troublesome to solve logisticwise, and I'm quite eager to start learning and playing as soon as possible.


I was thinking the same thing when I got my Kawai and decided to get mine from a London shop. Apparently with Thomann the warranty would be with Kawai Europe rather than UK. As it happens I did have a problem with the pedals which got fixed by a technician Kawai UK sent round after initially contacting the shop I bought from. Not sure how that would have worked if I'd got it from Thomann. I did get my K&M stand from Thomann who were very professional though. There was a slight issue with it but I didn't bother to get it replaced/fixed especially since there in Germany and it made no actual difference to the way I wanted it set up.

With the keyboard itself there's a slightly clicky black key. It's not something that bothers me and I'm not keen on them opening the whole thing up and potentially causing other problems.

Re: Miserable Kawai keyboard quality - similar experiences?
jazzist #2495666 12/31/15 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jazzist
Let me share my experiences with you:
First Kawai: CA 63: One key was standing out
--> I had to return it and to get a new one. So second Kawai: The distances between the keys varied between 2 mm and 0,1 mm, but at least noc keys sticking out.

Third Kawai: ES 100: Another key sticking out.
--> returned it, got a new one

Fourth Kawai: Now the weight of the h1 key is wrong. It feels like the h key, so while playing its: light touch (g1), lighter touch(a1), heavy touch (h1), lighter touch (c).
--> I will return it again. I am fed up with the miserable quality of the keys of Kawai!

Anybody had similar experiences?


The CA63 has basically a real piano key action - it is made of wood and felt, and things can move around during transport. Pianos generally need to be tuned and regulated after being shipped, so it's not a surprise that there could be some movement of the keys on the CA63. Instead of constantly returning pianos, you could have called Kawai, and they likely would have sent a technician to your house to fix the first problem, the first time.

How are you transporting these pianos? All of what you've mentioned can be fixed, and Kawai's warranty will cover the repairs, most likely in the comfort of your own home.

To get the 'real piano feel' that we all desire, it involves lots of moving and delicate parts. I'm sure they could make the action more robust, but it would be at the cost of feel and sensitivity.

And yes, I had an issue with the keys of my MP10 which was immediately taken care of by Kawai.

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