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A Yamaha CLP575 review #2296215
06/28/14 03:42 PM
06/28/14 03:42 PM
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enzo.sandrolini Offline OP
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Hello
After all this buzz around the new CLP 5xx, and after a first quick test of the CLP575 which was really promising, I decided to spent some times (around 2-3 hours) playing one at my local piano shop

First my background:
I play exclusively classical music for more than 5 years now
I currently own a VPC1 and a AvantGrand N2
I love my N2 but since I have it, I find the action of the VPC1 ‘too different’ from it and from the upright I am taking lessons one..so I was curious about the CLP575 or CLP585

The test:
About the action:
I would said I really like it
It is really different from the VPC1, and really a matter of personal taste, as no one is superior to the other..There are different that all
But the 575 action has clearly a longer ‘virtual’ key pivot than the VPC1 (which is ‘only’ RM3-2 and not the GF touch)
That is a great great plus.
We are close to the pivot I have on my N2 (but don’t misunderstand me, the N2 action is incomparable…)
I would say it is heavier than the RM3-2 action, and more responsive (It is what I am looking for)

About the sound
First I found the CFX really nice
Then I tried the Bosendorfer, and I was really disapontied…really dull, lack of brightness (same via Headphone)
But the more I played it, the more I found it had clear potential
So I started to play with the sound menu, and discovered lots of really interesting feature (Accurate key sensitivity, brightness, brilliance etc..)
By modifying them a little and setting the sensitivy to soft, then the sound of the Bosendorfer became wonderfull….so full and rich
The best I have ever heard

I have not yet explored all the pianos in details, but except the Bright and Warm ones, the other seems less interesting

Finally, I simply tried the Harpsichord, for fun…and I was surprised how good and rich it is..it was also the first time I heard the sound of the release key on a harpsichord
I had lots of pleasure playing some Bachs ‘Goldberg’s variations’ with it.

I did not have the chance to compare with the 585 as it was just sold some days before

Clearly, this piano is extremely good, and took lots of pleasure playing with it

Yamaha made a good job…
Now, it will be difficult for me to resist to the temptation to replace my VPC1

Hope it will help some people choosing their piano by encouraging them to try these CLP lines (but be careful, there are surely big difference amongst the line itself)

Cheers


Music is a lifestyle
(Happy Yamaha N2 and Roland FP90 owner)
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Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: enzo.sandrolini] #2296227
06/28/14 04:12 PM
06/28/14 04:12 PM
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Great review!

Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: enzo.sandrolini] #2296231
06/28/14 04:24 PM
06/28/14 04:24 PM
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Thank you Enzo.
Do you hve any action&sound comparison to the previous series of Clavinovas?
I am especially curious does the action is really better than in the previous one series.

The second thing I am concerned are high tones. In the 4xx series, the last 2-3 octaves were sounding like from behind the blanket on normal brightenss settings. Onlt when turned to bright, they were ok, but with bright the bass and middles were far to open... thus I was finding the Yamahas as very unbalanced (or uncostintent sound-wise) pianos with also any really good action (well, to be honest, the NW was olny some development over the basic structure of GHS, mechanically it's probably like 80% the same).

Do you think Yamaha did a really big step-forward with the new series? Big I am we can touch and hear huge improvement, not some slighly changes covered with lots of marketing.

Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: enzo.sandrolini] #2296238
06/28/14 04:56 PM
06/28/14 04:56 PM
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Might be worth waiting to try the CLP585 first. A couple of people here said it felt significantly more realistic than the 575 and was worth the extra money.

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Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: enzo.sandrolini] #2296448
06/29/14 07:18 AM
06/29/14 07:18 AM
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enzo.sandrolini Offline OP
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Hello
I will try to answers to some questions raised here.
First, about testing the previous CLP line (4xx), no I have not tested them to compare
the 470 (or 480 ?) was available at the shop, but I was not interested, and I have not thought that it could have been indeed interesting
Next time I will go there
About the touch which is quite often critised here I can say that on the 575, I got lots of pleasure playing some Chopin nocturnes
The keyboard was perfect in terms of responsiveness and control
The feeling was, for me, close to what I am looking for in a DP: responsive and stiff enough to not disturb my lessons on real accoustic
I prefer it over the VPC1 (but it is really personnal opinion as the VPC1 action is also really good, but not firm enough for me, and the pivot is too short, which is annoying in some romantic pieces)
And I prefer also it over the GF action : I have tried a CA65: the action is nice, but even more 'light' than the VPC1..so not what I am looking for

In conclusion, I could say I cannot compare with old CPL, and many others DP, but at the end, I took lots of pleasure plyaing with it, and I really enjoyed the Piano sound, mainly the Bosendorfer..Really nice

Cheers


Music is a lifestyle
(Happy Yamaha N2 and Roland FP90 owner)
Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: enzo.sandrolini] #2296573
06/29/14 01:39 PM
06/29/14 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by enzo.sandrolini

I prefer it over the VPC1 (but it is really personnal opinion as the VPC1 action is also really good, but not firm enough for me, and the pivot is too short, which is annoying in some romantic pieces)
And I prefer also it over the GF action : I have tried a CA65: the action is nice, but even more 'light' than the VPC1..so not what I am looking for


Interesting Enzo, from other reviews it seems that CLP585 is on the light side, similar to GF (I have tried GF but not NWX). Since the difference seems to be in the counterweight, I guess it's due to that. Given that, like you, and unlike several other frequent poster on this forum, I prefer heavier actions (as I find them closer to real acoustic grands), that means CLP575 could be an ideal piano for me. I see my music store has it in stock, so I'll have to check it next time I go there.
Thanks very much for your review!


Roland FP-4F, Korg Kross 61, iRig Keys Pro, HD598, Focal Spirit Pro, Shure SRH240A, RME Babyface, M-Track Plus, Roland DuoCapture, Presonus Eris E5, iLoud micro monitors, iPad Pro, MS Surface pro 3, Ivory II ACD, Korg Module for iPad, Vienna Imperial, Galaxy Vintage D, Ravenscroft, Kawai-Ex Pro
Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: enzo.sandrolini] #2296674
06/29/14 05:59 PM
06/29/14 05:59 PM
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Thanks for your anwears Enzo. My (well, and not only mine) criticism about Clavinovas is directed among the 4xx series, compared to Roland and Kawais. Because, as it was told many times before, they did not done any real significant development of sound and touch since the CLP1xxx series (with which I have a lot of experience). Hence I wanted to hear about the comparison to the previous one series.

It is also quite intersting, that you find Yamaha's keyboard easier to play in depth than the RMII, because yamaha is with "hammers" under the keys, while Kawai has long wooden keys. I played both GF and RMII, and foun the RMII better for my taste, however, maybe the 575 is worth to try.

Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: kapelli] #2296676
06/29/14 06:07 PM
06/29/14 06:07 PM
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Are these available in the US yet ? I can call Keyboard Concepts tomorrow to find out but was just curious now. Checking out some youtubes of the 585- they sound pretty good. I'll guess they aren't cheap .. wink

Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: Dave Ferris] #2296681
06/29/14 06:47 PM
06/29/14 06:47 PM
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My local Yamaha dealer, largest in the USA, has 70+ units (various 500 series) on order, arriving in mid-July. For the US, we'll start seeing them slowly show up at store after July 4 weekend.

Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: enzo.sandrolini] #2296687
06/29/14 06:58 PM
06/29/14 06:58 PM
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Got `em all in our local shop. 585 a tad over £3k, shiny black extra.

http://www.promenademusic.co.uk/yamaha-clp585-black-walnut


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: enzo.sandrolini] #2296689
06/29/14 07:01 PM
06/29/14 07:01 PM
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Quote
Select Clavinova CLP-500 Series models will be available in June 2014. Pricing for each model will vary by finish and starts from:

CLP-525 (MSRP $2199)
CLP-535 (MSRP $2899)
CLP-545 (MSRP $3699)
CLP-575 (MSRP $4999)
CLP-565GP (MSRP $5999)
CLP-585 (MSRP $6299)


http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/06/prweb11922871.htm

Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: peterws] #2296691
06/29/14 07:07 PM
06/29/14 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by peterws
Got `em all in our local shop.


It's not fair that Yamaha always release all new products for you guys on the other side of the Atlantic first.

Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: peterws] #2296853
06/30/14 06:41 AM
06/30/14 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by peterws
Got `em all in our local shop. 585 a tad over £3k, shiny black extra.

http://www.promenademusic.co.uk/yamaha-clp585-black-walnut


That's a lot cheaper than they used to price the top of the range CLP Clavinovas - the 380 and 480 back in their day were four grand-ish I think. I'm glad to see they've shifted the price to a more sensible level. The massive price difference between top model (380/480) and the next one down (370/470) always seemed nonsensical to me. The only real difference was the sound system (tri-amps and the iAFC sound field thingy). So the 585 is looking like a very nice DP.


Roland RD-1000 | Nord Piano3 | Dexibell Vivo P7 | Korg G1 Air |
Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: 8 Octaves] #2296859
06/30/14 07:27 AM
06/30/14 07:27 AM
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enzo.sandrolini Offline OP
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Originally Posted by 8 Octaves
Originally Posted by peterws
Got `em all in our local shop.


It's not fair that Yamaha always release all new products for you guys on the other side of the Atlantic first.

I am surprised of that
I always though the US market was first targeted by all big brands, but apparently for Pianos, we are quite lucky as it seems to be the same for Kawai (we have also less stock problem) smile


Music is a lifestyle
(Happy Yamaha N2 and Roland FP90 owner)
Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: enzo.sandrolini] #2296904
06/30/14 09:44 AM
06/30/14 09:44 AM
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The difference between the 575 and the 585 is retail $1300 US. For $1300 you get:

20W more and a 6 speaker system
14 additional voices and 480 XG voices
Counterbalances on the keys
A more traditional upright cabinet (falling keyboard cover on 585 vs sliding 575)

Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: enzo.sandrolini] #2296932
06/30/14 11:12 AM
06/30/14 11:12 AM
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I am also curious about the settings that you used. After to tweaked the settings, did you go back to the CFX with those settings to compare?

Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: theoak] #2296978
06/30/14 01:58 PM
06/30/14 01:58 PM
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enzo.sandrolini Offline OP
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I have played with lots of settings
but finally, I estimated that only 3 made huge difference:
- 1st: Touch sensitivy: default is 64, pushing it if to 75 makes the Bosendorfer comes to life...no more dull...the different velocity of the sound you then get is then really good (but honestly, I did not understand if is redundont with the key touch setting...)
- 2nd Brillance: I pushed it a little
- 3rd: Reverb depth


With these 3 parameters, I was able to make it sound exactly like I wanted
CFX and Bosendorfer are extremely good
others pianos like 'Warm' & 'bright' are also really good
I did not really appreciate Rock or Jazz piano, but I have not tried them for a long time.


Music is a lifestyle
(Happy Yamaha N2 and Roland FP90 owner)
Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: enzo.sandrolini] #2371182
01/08/15 02:45 PM
01/08/15 02:45 PM
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I just had a look at the CLP575 over on the DPBSD thread:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb.../Re:_The_DPBSD_Project!.html#Post2371154

Yamaha is finally addressing their penchant for stretching just about everything to death, along with their generally poor sympathetic resonance. So cudos there.

But both voices are audibly looped, so it's just another boring looper in my book (though YMMV).

Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: dewster] #2371439
01/09/15 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by dewster
But both voices are audibly looped, so it's just another boring looper in my book (though YMMV).


I've read this comment from you several times on PW. I'm genuinely curious -- how can you spot the looping so well? I always check for it when I see your post, but I can never catch it in recordings of the DP. I'm not being aggressive or sarcastic, etc., I really mean it: what do you listen for?


Beethoven - Op.49 No.1 (sonata 19)
Czerny - Op.299 Nos. 5,7 (School of Velocity)
Liszt - S.172 No.2 (Consolation No.2)

Dream piece:
Rachmaninoff - Sonata 2, movement 2 in E minor
Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: Dwscamel] #2371442
01/09/15 01:56 AM
01/09/15 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Dwscamel
I really mean it: what do you listen for?


I believe it's more a case of looking at the waveforms than listening to how they sound.


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: Dwscamel] #2371553
01/09/15 10:46 AM
01/09/15 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Dwscamel
I've read this comment from you several times on PW. I'm genuinely curious -- how can you spot the looping so well? I always check for it when I see your post, but I can never catch it in recordings of the DP. I'm not being aggressive or sarcastic, etc., I really mean it: what do you listen for?

Valid question. I suppose I've heard so many DPs looping that my ear has been trained to some degree. James has a point in that looping is usually easier to see (via the Adobe Audition 3.0 spectral views) than hear, and a lot of what I do when evaluating the DPBSD is "directed" listening. For some notes, the timber and stereo placement of the loop is matched well enough to the attack sample, and the loop period is either long enough or the loop sound drab enough, that I find it difficult or impossible to directly hear the looping for that note.

That said I can't say I've encountered a looper where I couldn't clearly hear at least some of the notes looping (and the DPBSD only tests the C notes). And even if such a DP existed, where one couldn't hear any of the loops directly, the way loops are generally done these days (short, drab samples) the overall tone is rendered much less interesting sounding vs. a fully sampled piano, and you might still hear the loops beating together in decaying chords.

Look what I just bought, a 64GB USB3 thumbdrive for $25 USD. Why are people shelling out $5k for loopers again? Someone pointed to a a video of Billy Joel's stage rack where it is shown that he uses a Receptor running Ivory II, a second Receptor as fail safe backup, and a Kurzweil PC2R rack as the third and final fail safe backup. Even the "Piano Man" himself doesn't play a looper on stage unless everything else is broken and he is basically forced to.

Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: enzo.sandrolini] #2371606
01/09/15 01:03 PM
01/09/15 01:03 PM
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In fact looping is easy to hear. What is the most surprising for me, is, that they are spending hundreds of hours and money on damaging the samples, while having amazing sounding samples, they could do something WOW. but they will not do this, because it would sound to good, and, Yamaha can't do that.

Whats is even more fascinating, that in the time when KAwai since few years are getting better and better samples, 88 keys slong samples, and best Keyboard, Roland improving a lot their sound and touch, Yamaha still is marketing the same thing since 20 years, with almost no hearable changes...

And having them sampled streched should be a big no, especially for Clavinova series.

Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: kapelli] #2371615
01/09/15 01:35 PM
01/09/15 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by kapelli
In fact looping is easy to hear. What is the most surprising for me, is, that they are spending hundreds of hours and money on damaging the samples, while having amazing sounding samples, they could do something WOW. but they will not do this, because it would sound to good, and, Yamaha can't do that.

If they were doing MP3 compression I'd sort of get it. Stretching, looping, and too few velocity layers are not the way to compress the samples of something as delicate as an acoustic piano.

It's my belief that they won't give us a mid or low end unlooped DP because it would "internally compete" with their own higher end products. Flagship things like the AG don't get updated often so everything on down is stuck in a time warp. Merely admitting that their high end stuff loops puts it in a very bad light, so they can't even talk about it. So what do we get? Technological stasis - and in a time when all other heavily computationally based consumer devices are quite obviously improving by leaps and bounds.

It's gotten to the point where DP technology can't pass the smell test. Everyone who looks into them knows they are paying too much for too little. Everyone who really cares about sound quality ends up jacking into a PC sampler and bypassing the lame internal sounds.

Originally Posted by kapelli
And having them sampled streched should be a big no, especially for Clavinova series.

Stretching any DP that isn't a toy is just nuts at this point. That's why they don't talk about that either. It's no wonder they don't give hard specs anymore, they would be an embarrassment.

Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: kapelli] #2371636
01/09/15 02:40 PM
01/09/15 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by kapelli
Yamaha still is marketing the same thing since 20 years, with almost no hearable changes...

You are wrong. This thread is about Yamaha CLP575 - the DP that:
* Has two completely new sets of samples (from Yamaha CFX and Bosendorfer piano). Yamaha is the only one DP's producer that offer two sets of samples at the moment.
* Both samples are not stretched.
* With VRM technologii they improved string resonance and implemented in very nice way string and damper sympathetic resonance.

All of those are very well hearable changes.

We can expect much more from modern DPs but it's hard to say that Yamaha has changed nothing sync 1995.

Last edited by jpyt; 01/09/15 02:49 PM.
Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: dewster] #2371646
01/09/15 03:00 PM
01/09/15 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by dewster
It's gotten to the point where DP technology can't pass the smell test. Everyone who looks into them knows they are paying too much for too little. Everyone who really cares about sound quality ends up jacking into a PC sampler and bypassing the lame internal sounds.


This is the main reason I couldn't bring myself to invest the big bucks into an N1 or NU1.


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Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: enzo.sandrolini] #2371652
01/09/15 03:11 PM
01/09/15 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jpyt
We can expect much more from modern DPs but it's hard to say that Yamaha hasn't changed nothing sync 1995.

The Bosendorfer sample is most likely brand new to Yamaha DPs, but the CFX sample has been around for a while I think? The CP1/5/50 have two separate AP samples (CFIII and S6).

Lack of stretching isn't absolutely new for them, the CLP-990 (introduced in 2001) and AG-N3 aren't stretched. Pedal sympathetic resonance on the AG-N3 is pretty good, and the CLP-990 has key sympathetic resonance as well - both of these are pre VRM (though perhaps VRM is an improvement?).

Yamaha is kind of notorious for bandying the term "modeling" about on things that don't belong in that category IMO (e.g. "Spectral Component Modeling" in the CP1 made everyone think the APs were at least partially modeled, it took DPBSD testing to dispel that myth).

I'm not sure why Yamaha didn't just keep making the CLP-990 and be done with it. It would greatly benefit from a larger sample memory (as would virtually all DPs) but in almost all other ways everything they've made since up until now has been a step backward.

Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: jpyt] #2371661
01/09/15 03:38 PM
01/09/15 03:38 PM
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JoeT Offline
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Europe
Originally Posted by jpyt
Yamaha is the only one DP's producer that offer two sets of samples at the moment.

The $800 ES100 has two sets of AP samples, too. They are both based on Kawai grands of course. Although the second sample set is obviously stretched (with about 22 stretch groups I guess, I don't counted them), only the primary set provides 88 note sampling, but that's still a nice thing to have in a sub $1000 instrument.


Kawai ES100 | Pianoteq 6 | Ivory II American Concert D | Steinberg UR22 | Sennheiser HD595
Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: enzo.sandrolini] #2371749
01/09/15 08:06 PM
01/09/15 08:06 PM
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Sydney, Australia
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I listened to a few demo clips - sounds very nice indeed. It might be interesting if they could produce a hybrid preset that uses the mellow Bosendorfer samples for the soft samples, morphing to the bright CFX samples for forte.

Greg.


Middle-aged Jeremy Clarkson acolyte.
Re: A Yamaha CLP575 review [Re: theoak] #2483030
11/21/15 02:03 PM
11/21/15 02:03 PM
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Posts: 64
France
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Originally Posted by theoak
The difference between the 575 and the 585 is retail $1300 US. For $1300 you get:

20W more and a 6 speaker system


Yes, but the more important, except the power, the counterweight and XG voices, is the fact than the speakers are 3-way speakers...(2-way for the CLP-575) And it changes a lot when you're in front of the piano and you're playing it ... No doubt.

I played both of them, and as we say in french "Y'a pas photo"... wink


Motif XS 7 - Mac everywhere... since 1984... ;-)
Fender Strato - Logic Studio - NS-10 M Studio
acoustic upright piano

http://perso.numericable.fr/appleback/index.html

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