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noob question - LH proper fingering for F7 chord
#2482305 11/19/15 04:19 AM
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ambun Offline OP
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hi,
I currently learn a song which left hand chord goes from F to F7 to G minor .

I usually use my pinky, index finger, and thumb, so for F chord I use :

F-pinky
A-index finger
C-Thumb

for F7 the teacher said he usually use:
F-pinky
A-middle finger
C-index finger
D#-thumb
but i find it awkward.

He also said; alternatively I can use the ring finger for lower D# :
D#-ring finger
F-middle finger
A-index finger
C-Thumb

but then it also feels awkward and takes plenty of movement to Gminor.

advice?


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Re: noob question - LH proper fingering for F7 chord
ambun #2482311 11/19/15 04:53 AM
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As a beginner, most things will feel a bit awkward at first.

Either suggested fingerings will be used depending upon which inversion of the chord you are using.

As far as movement to Gm, I do not see much difference in either one of them.

The longer you play, the more natural all these fingerings will feel and you will think less about it.

Good luck





Don

Casio PX-S1000, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq, Focus Rite Scarlett 2i2 Audio Interface
Re: noob question - LH proper fingering for F7 chord
ambun #2482312 11/19/15 04:58 AM
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what feels awkward today will be your normal in a years time if not less. Many steps in advancing your technique will take you out of your normal range of motion (your comfort zone). In addition because you will need to use inversions in other songs it is best to experiment and become accustomed to all types of fingering you might find strange or awkward right now.


Very similar reasoning to what you might find in a non chordal score where the editor has provided fingering. The advice to the average player is to use the fingering they find most comfortable and use the suggested fingering as a guide. But for a beginner who has very simple range of comfortable fingering they should use the fingering provided as much as possible until they can determine what is right for them.


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Re: noob question - LH proper fingering for F7 chord
ambun #2482320 11/19/15 05:47 AM
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Hi Ambun,

Chords do feel hard to play at the beginning. They do get easier the more you play them smile When you are play the F7 where is your pinky? If in the middle of the white key try sliding pinky in between the black notes a little more.

When moving to the G- maybe try a different inversion?

Hope this helps

Greg


Email - greg@greglloydmusicschool.com

Website - greglloydmusicschool.com
Re: noob question - LH proper fingering for F7 chord
dmd #2482554 11/19/15 09:06 PM
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ambun Offline OP
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hi guys, thanks for the reply.
correction (not that it matters i think), the chord goes from F to F7 to Bb.
practiced some more last night and I think I can only use the 2nd alternative taught by the teacher:
D#-ring finger
F-middle finger
A-index finger
C-Thumb

and for the Bb I use the F (pinky) - Bb (index finger) - D (thumb).


I have trouble trying the first fingering:
F-pinky
A-middle finger
C-index finger
D#-thumb

for the first one I have to move & bend my body slightly to the right and I find it hard to do, not sure, could be because I have Ankylosing Spondylitis (that my body have limited range of motion) or maybe I'm just not accustomed to it.


Re: noob question - LH proper fingering for F7 chord
ambun #2482572 11/19/15 10:16 PM
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I know nothing about your medical condition so this might not apply to you -- but it does apply to many students.

Check your alignment. Fingers should point straight ahead when playing close together, and spread symmetrically when playing far apart.
Your fingering 125 for a triad suggests that your fingers 2 and 3 are twisted outward toward the pinky. This will cause problems when playing chords spread farther apart.
Try triads 135 being sure that all fingers especially finger 3 are pointing forward toward the fallboard of the piano.
Try your teacher's suggested fingerings being sure that finger 3 is pointing exactly or nearly straight toward the fallboard, finger 2 is angled slightly toward the thumb, and finger 4 is angled slightly toward the pinky, i.e. a symmetrical spread rather than a twisted one.

PS hopefully your teacher told you this, but the fingering with the thumb on a black key assumes that all the fingers move forward so that the non-thumb fingers are in between the black keys. If you don't do that, you have to twist a lot.

Last edited by hreichgott; 11/19/15 10:18 PM.

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Re: noob question - LH proper fingering for F7 chord
ambun #2482666 11/20/15 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ambun
I think I can only use the 2nd alternative taught by the teacher:
D#-ring finger
F-middle finger
A-index finger
C-Thumb


First of all, there is no such thing as "can only use that alternative".

As you grow as a player you will find yourself using all sorts of inversions and fingerings as the music requires.

Second of all, this topic is best discussed with your teacher. He/She is best able to help you work through your difficulties.

Good Luck


Don

Casio PX-S1000, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq, Focus Rite Scarlett 2i2 Audio Interface
Re: noob question - LH proper fingering for F7 chord
ambun #2482748 11/20/15 12:45 PM
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ambun. you write : i find it awkward, but does not specify - compared to what chord ? I can imagine - as compared for example with F Maj 7. The position of hand in chords on a keyboard is determined by two fingers - thumb and pinky ; and if one of they keys is black , required to put forward the arm forward which preserves angle of limb and prevents any rotation of elbow or even the whole body (provided that F7 starts from the third octave).
Thus, the position of the hand on the F Major 7 and F7 should be almost identical.

Re: noob question - LH proper fingering for F7 chord
Nahum #2482890 11/20/15 09:23 PM
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ambun Offline OP
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Originally Posted by hreichgott

Your fingering 125 for a triad suggests that your fingers 2 and 3 are twisted outward toward the pinky. This will cause problems when playing chords spread farther apart.
Try triads 135 being sure that all fingers especially finger 3 are pointing forward toward the fallboard of the piano.

hi hreichgott, I also read the 135 (pinky, middle, thumb) on pianoforall book, the author really emphasize on that part ("make sure you use these fingers!").

I tried the 135 but my ring finger (4) kept pressing the key accidentally and then I read in this forum that it's not really a hard rule & my teacher also use 125 so I figure I can use any fingers I feel comfortable with.

but so far I only use the 3 fingers chord (triad?) except the F7,so I guess you're right, I should change the habit from now on.
Quote

PS hopefully your teacher told you this, but the fingering with the thumb on a black key assumes that all the fingers move forward so that the non-thumb fingers are in between the black keys. If you don't do that, you have to twist a lot.

hmm, he didn't specifically told me that (he just press the keys and said "do it like this"). last night I tried moving the fingers forward like you said, it helps! gonna take some time to get familiar to it (my fingers feel too big)

Originally Posted by dmd

First of all, there is no such thing as "can only use that alternative".

As you grow as a player you will find yourself using all sorts of inversions and fingerings as the music requires.
hopefully you're right for the growing part, for now I feel like sh*t for not being able to play something that seems easy like that.
Quote

Second of all, this topic is best discussed with your teacher. He/She is best able to help you work through your difficulties.

I was hoping that I can come to the next class already tackling this song so we can move on to the next one, but tonight is our next class, I'll ask him tonight.
Originally Posted by Nahum
ambun. you write : i find it awkward, but does not specify - compared to what chord ? I can imagine - as compared for example with F Maj 7. The position of hand in chords on a keyboard is determined by two fingers - thumb and pinky ; and if one of they keys is black , required to put forward the arm forward which preserves angle of limb and prevents any rotation of elbow or even the whole body (provided that F7 starts from the third octave).
Thus, the position of the hand on the F Major 7 and F7 should be almost identical.

Hi, so far the musics I learn only consist of major/minor 3 fingers chord except the F7, so can't really compare, maybe i'm just not accustomed to it. gonna try some more today.

thanks guys ^,^



Re: noob question - LH proper fingering for F7 chord
ambun #2482904 11/20/15 10:56 PM
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FWIW (I don't teach):

thumb=1, pinkie=5:

I'd try:

F: F A C 5 3 2

F7: F A C Eb (please -- not D#) 5 3 2 1

Bb: F Bb D 5 2 1

I think that's "minimum-movement" fingering, for those inversions of those chords.

The 5-3-2 for a triad isn't typical "beginner fingering", but it's useful here.



. Charles
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PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq
Re: noob question - LH proper fingering for F7 chord
Charles Cohen #2482918 11/21/15 12:30 AM
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ambun Offline OP
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Update: just tried it again after lunch, I think I've got it ^_^ I'll try again later.

Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
FWIW (I don't teach):
thumb=1, pinkie=5:

I'd try:

F: F A C 5 3 2

F7: F A C Eb (please -- not D#) 5 3 2 1

Bb: F Bb D 5 2 1

I think that's "minimum-movement" fingering, for those inversions of those chords.

The 5-3-2 for a triad isn't typical "beginner fingering", but it's useful here.
Hi Charles cohen, thanks for the advice. I thought D# & Eb is interchangeable,my bad >_<

OT question: anyone knows where to download (pree or paid) pop music sheets for learning purpose? My teacher use this old book and it only have old folk songs.





Last edited by ambun; 11/21/15 02:28 AM.
Re: noob question - LH proper fingering for F7 chord
ambun #2483839 11/23/15 11:14 PM
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I am sorry to seem out of line here,i just wana ask for the response of my post,please,can anyone help me with passing chords.I have been looking at the responses on the above post so i realy wish you can also take part in what i asked as you do here.My post is called Scale and Chords,posted by me myself Moagi.Your participation will be strong appreciated..


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