Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Why doesn't Kawai sell the CA17 in the USA?

Like the CA15 before it, Kawai doesn't sell the CA17 in the USA.

That's a shame because the CA17 seems like the perfect fit for my needs. It has the RM3II wood action of the VPC1, and the latest sampled grand piano sounds Kawai offers. Not the extra bells and whistles that I don't need.

All for a price well under $2000 (actually it's under $1500 in Japan) !

I can't for the life of me figure out why they wouldn't bring this to the USA. I would buy it instantly. For those that might mention it for comparison, I'm not interested in the CE220. The look, sound, and feel of it is just outdated, and pales in comparison to the beauty of the rosewood CA17.

I am in agreement with you. The CA-17 has exactly the features that I have been looking for. Sigh.

I suspect a similar piano for the US market will appear. In the meantime, I am strongly considering the ES-8.

The ES-8 seems to have the edge on voices:

34 voices (10 pianos, 10 E-pianos) SK ConcertGrand, EX ConcertGrand, SK-5 GrandPiano, Jazz Clean, Warm Grand, Pop Grand, Upright Piano, Pop Grand 2, Modern Piano, Rock Piano, Classic E.P., 60’s E.Piano, Modern E.P., Classic E.P.2, Drawbar Organ, Jazz Organ, Principal Oct., Church Organ, Harpsichord, Vibraphone, Clavi, Marimba, Slow Strings, String Pad, Warm Strings, String Ensemble, Choir Ooh/Aah, Choir Aah, New Age Pad, Atmosphere, Wood Bass, Electric Bass, Fretless Bass, W. Bass & Ride


vs the CA-17:

19 voices. 8 acoustic piano sounds, 11 other sounds (SK Concert Grand, EX Concert Grand, Upright piano, studio grand, studio grand 2, mellow grand, mellow grand 2, modern piano, classic e-piano, modern e-piano, jazz organ, church organ, harpsichord, vibraphone, string ensemble, slow strings, choir, new age pad, atmosphere)


They have the same Harmonic Imagingâ„¢ XL (HI-XL) sound production capability.

I agree. I just bought my first digital piano, the CN35. I would have chosen the CA17 over it. I almost chose the CN25 over the 35 but couldn't get past the sound difference of the extra speakers (I want it stand-alone, no external speakers, etc.). Really would have loved the CA17 option.

I've also considered the ES8, and yes it has more sounds and extra features (the bells and whistles), but there are a few things that I don't like. First, the action is the "bouncy" RHIII plastic action. And secondly, because it is a portable piano, the sheet music stand needs to hook way on the back. I always find that I'm leaning forward trying to read the music on those portable grands because of the music stands down and at the back.

Of course the ES8 also costs much more when you consider the added stand and pedals. You could even get a CN35 for less than a fully equipped ES8, and that has the same action, plus 300+ some-odd sounds and features which I don't need. lol I just want the CA17! Anyone <cough> importing these? :-P

Hello Tony, as you correctly note, Kawai America does not market the smaller CA1x instruments in the US and Canada, partly due to the continued popularity of the CE220 (which has great specs and features for the price).



May I ask if you have tried the ES8 (or CN25/CN35 featuring the same RHIII action)?

Kind regards,
James
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Hi James,
Preface: I write this post with only the kindest of intentions. Kawai is my favorite brand.

It's quite a shame really. You can't deny that when it comes to the piano samples, key action, and cabinet design, that the CA17 comes out way on top. All for the same price (or less) worldwide than the CE220. Of course I have no idea what KawaiUS would actually charge for the CA17.

I wouldn't expect a Kawai employee to admit that a 2012 model in 2016, the CE220 is getting quite long in the tooth compared to the latest models. It definitely had its place and time. Maybe by holding the CA17 back Kawai can still sell the CE220 like hot cakes? If only those poor buyers knew of the CA17!



Yes I did try the ES8 at a local SamAsh. I found the action to be much less realistic compared to the VPC1. Especially annoying is the "bounce back". As people have discussed on these forums, the counter weights are too heavy and the keys come back up very quickly bouncing into place and making extra noise in the process. As far as plastic actions are concerned, I think RHII was better.
Obviously the CA17 with RM3II action is in another class...

I'm lucky enough to live in a country where the CA17 is sold - I once in a while recommend it to others who look for a no-frills, pianistically serious DP at a modest price, and I probably wouldn't do the same for the CE220.

Hello Tony,

Sorry for this delayed reply - I overlooked your previous response.



Well, that's always good to hear.



Yes, you're right. However my response was that the CE220 still "offers great specs and features for the price", which I believe it does. It's true that the CE220 does not feature the latest action and sounds, however, it offers USB to Device, a more intuitive panel interface with LCD display, drum rhythms, and Line In/Line Out connectivity.

As I responded to you in a previous post, the CN35 is one of Kawai America's most popular instruments, with the CE220 another very successful model.



Yes, pricing structure may also be a factor.



No, and I don't believe I said that either. The CA17 is a very good piano (as was the CA15 before it, by the way...), and so is the CE220, despite using older technology.



No, I don't believe so. More likely, Kawai America believe the CE220 is more suitable for the North American market than the CA1x, and have therefore opted to continue selling this popular model.



Yes, this is not entirely unexpected - the VPC1 utilises a wooden key keyboard action that is widely regarded as one of the most realistic available.



That's an interesting observation, thank you for your feedback. So far, the vast majority of those who have played the CN25/CN35 and CN24/CN34 prefer the improvements in the latest action, however these things are rather subjective, and not everyone's tastes are different. With regards to the added counterweights, I believe these have a greater influence on the action's down weight than the keyboard return speed.

Kind regards,
James
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I would make another guess as to withholding the CA-17, but it may be just a "conspiracy theory".
It's possible that they're not selling it because they would have to price it close to the VPC-1 price, and it would cut into the VPC-1's market, which I believe to be quite profitable in the States.

Sounds doubtful given the huge difference between a cabinet-style DP and a slab-stage-piano-like-DP-with-no-internal-sounds. These hardly target the same market.

That's why I said it may be far-fetched, but I *think* there would be plenty of people who'd choose the former, for a similar price, and I also think that there are enough people who go for the VPC-1 especially for the keys, and not for the slab form or portability.
Those are just theories though, I have no facts to base them on. It's just how I thought when I was looking for a DP and considered the VPC1 because in Europe the VPC-1 is priced significantly lower than the CA-17. Given the somewhat high price of the VPC1 in the States, I would expect it to be a lot harder to have a clear stepping in pricing for the likes of PC1, CA-17, CA-67.
Nonetheless, after managing to find a CA-15 to test after a very long search, I concluded that the action didn't satisfy me and the CA-65 (at the time) was way out of price range, although I found it's action truly to my liking.

This was all just to chip in to the conspiracy mill :))

All the best!

In the States, there is a dealing going on between local dealerships and DP manufacturers. Most mid range to higher end products are not available online. One must buy from local dealers at much inflated prices. e.g. CA67 sells for $3,500 vs. €2,333 on Thomann. HP605 sells for $3,999 vs. €2,499. That's huge markups.

VPC1 goes for $1,800. So, there is room for a CA17. As a consumer, I see this as stupidity on Kawai America's part. See how unconvincing James' response was above and passing the ball to "most likely, Kawai America believes ... "

Happy Thanksgiving to folks in US!

I don't believe the existence of the VPC1 has any influence over Kawai America's decision not to market the CA17 in the US. Similarly, I don't believe the existence of the CA15 and now CA17 has any influence over Kawai Australia's decision not to market the VPC1 in their region.

As an employee of Kawai Japan, the parent company, I would like to see all of Kawai's instruments available in each market - including the CS series sold domestically, and some Japan-only models sold overseas. However, I appreciate that perhaps not all models are suitable for all regions, and accept that the staff working at Kawai subsidiaries around the globe are best placed to decide which instruments to introduce into their respective markets.

Kind regards,
James
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I tried to find prices for those models in the US but couldn't. I just presumed the discrepancy in pricing wouldn't be so big for the other models, but apparently it is, so my theory has no foundation. Oh well, everybody loves a good conspiracy :p
Well, at least It (and many more) products could be had for nearly half the price in the US at least a few years back, when I was better informed in the field.
As for the DP pricing, it would make me draw out my bargaining sword :))
Good luck with the purchase! Do consider giving a try to other manufacturers in your Portus range so well. Maybe you'll find something else that will satisfy you. After all the hype around the RM3 action, I discovered it was not my cup of tea and was very happy not to have ordered based on what I've read.

PS. James, of course you make perfect sense, as opposed to me and my speculations, and I too would like to see larger availability of Kawai instruments, to have access to the whole line-up and to be able to test them without having to make a 500km trip to find some. Larger availability would make them better known and would lead to more sales probably.

I concur! Kawai should stop worrying about cannibalizing sales of CE220 and offer CA1X in the US market. I live in Argentina and purchased a CA13 several years ago and LOVE it! It's a beautiful piano and it plays and feels wonderful. It inspires me to want to play and practice. I'm now about to move back to the US and was hoping I could simply sell my piano locally and buy a new one once I've settled in after my move. But that's not possible since it's not offered in the US. Kawai, please make it available in the US!

I am very happy that they think of customers first and not just playing hat tricks with price. What would we do, poor misguided souls in north america, playing on a piano that is deemed "not suitable" for our north american hands and ears by the good people in marketing department? We may go all bananas....

bradhapa, oscar1, thank you for your posts.

My recommendation would be to inform Kawai America of your desire to purchase the CA17 locally. Perhaps if enough customers express an interest in this model, Kawai America will introduce it to the market.

Kind regards,
James
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@James,

simply to avoid entire topic for one question, something intrigues me about Kawai presence in certain magazines. When comparing methodology is applied to tested DPs, some magazines, seems to be entirely silent of MP range, when highlighting them as viable alternatives.

For example, SOS assumed such tradition after 2005., since MP8 was the last DP they reviewed from Kawai. I remember in 2014. this question was raised on SOS forum, there was response from their stuff, but those replies were soon erased. Will look for this post archived - if you are interested. However, SOS response was very general and not really addressing precise nature of MPs invisible presence.

But just for sake of argument, it is one thing for magazine to avoid certain products, but it gets suspicious, when in alternative boxes, Kawai seems to be nonexistent.

In my view, this is damaging their readers (as valid information) about what is alternative in particular price range. It makes no difference if we are talking Kawai ,Roland, Yamaha, ... but I’m certain, you are aware of such particular treatment of Kawai.

Specially with SOS, why is that so?

Hello Volken,

My apologies for this delayed response. I was away from the forum last week, so am catching-up on missed posts/threads.

Yes, I am aware that SOS used to review Kawai MP models very thoroughly, but that the past few generations have not be covered by the magazine. I'm afraid I do not know the reason for this change, but will try to ask my colleagues at Kawai UK (SOS is a UK-based publication) if they have any information.

Kind regards,
James
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James,

for your reference: SOS official position on Kawai and Yamaha range of DPs

this is the very best I can do, as I failed to cache their response. SOS’s response was erased for reasons beyond my grasp and too soon, to act in timely manner