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Re: Overcoming Mid Back Pain [Re: NoteBender] #1979716
10/28/12 03:41 PM
10/28/12 03:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 820
Northern, Northern California
TromboneAl Offline
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TromboneAl  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 820
Northern, Northern California
This was a severe problem for me, and it has been totally solved. For a while I was taking a chair to gigs, and I had to limit my practice time. I now play for many hours a day, with no back pain.

Here are the things that I think helped:

1. It may have just gotten better on its own. Probably not, but many of these things come and go.

2. In addition the Gokhale book (and her YouTube videos), this book is amazing.

3. Every day I do stretches that include back stretches. Every day.

4. I have a wedge cushion on the piano bench that keeps my pelvis rotated forward.

5. I had done crunches every day, but they didn't help with back strains. I now believe they are bad, and do side planks instead.

Good luck -- it can be solved!

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Re: Overcoming Mid Back Pain [Re: NoteBender] #1979717
10/28/12 03:42 PM
10/28/12 03:42 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,425
Vught, The Netherlands
Dave Horne Offline
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Dave Horne  Offline
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Vught, The Netherlands
Al, I now believe they are bad, and do side planks instead.

What exactly does that mean? What are 'side planks'?.


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Re: Overcoming Mid Back Pain [Re: NoteBender] #1979735
10/28/12 04:23 PM
10/28/12 04:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 37
Nova Scotia, Canada
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NoteBender Offline OP
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Nova Scotia, Canada
Side Plank:
Lie on side on mat. Place forearm on mat under shoulder perpendicular to body. Place upper leg directly on top of lower leg and straighten knees and hips.
Raise body upward by straightening waist so body is ridged. Hold position. Repeat with opposite side.


You can check out a video by searching "Side plank" on YouTube e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqzrb67Dwf8 .


Monty -- KORG Pa600
Re: Overcoming Mid Back Pain [Re: TromboneAl] #1979992
10/29/12 07:40 AM
10/29/12 07:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 37
Nova Scotia, Canada
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NoteBender Offline OP
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NoteBender  Offline OP
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Nova Scotia, Canada
Originally Posted by TromboneAl
2. In addition the Gokhale book (and her YouTube videos), this book is amazing.


FYI Al is referring to the book "7 Steps to a Pain-Free Life: How to Rapidly Relieve Back and Neck Pain " by Robin McKenzie.

Somewhere I have an older version of this book that years ago I received from a physiotherapist that deals specifically with lower back pain. I believe the "7 Steps" is a combination of McKenzie's two earlier books - the one I have and one dealing with neck pain.

I agree with Al - the McKenzie book I have helped me a lot with lower back pain that I suffered with years ago and since then I do not take any chances with straining my lower back (i.e. I have two herniated lumbar disks), however, my current issues and the idea for this particular thread was dealing with the mid-back as there is a significant lack of useful information for mid-back issues.


Monty -- KORG Pa600
Re: Overcoming Mid Back Pain [Re: NoteBender] #1980271
10/29/12 08:47 PM
10/29/12 08:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 820
Northern, Northern California
TromboneAl Offline
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TromboneAl  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 820
Northern, Northern California
The interesting thing about the McKenzie method is how it was discovered:

[img]http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=13015&d=1320017822[/img]

------------

Lat pulldowns BEHIND THE NECK are reported to be at best ineffective and at worst dangerous.

The Behind-the-Neck Lat Pull-Down


The myth: The best way to perform the lat pulldown is to pull the bar behind your head, down to your upper back

The truth: Unless you have very flexible shoulders, this exercise is difficult to do correctly, and can increase your risk for shoulder impingement syndrome—a painful condition in which the muscles or tendons of your rotator cuff become entrapped in your shoulder joint.

The alternative: Simple—just pull the bar in front of your head, down to your collarbone. You’ll work your back just as hard, but with less risk for injury.

From: http://www.menshealth.com/mhlists/a...the-Neck_Lat_Pull-Down.php#ixzz2AjOhlrfr



Re: Overcoming Mid Back Pain [Re: TromboneAl] #1980336
10/29/12 10:57 PM
10/29/12 10:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 490
Middle Georgia, USA
Tararex Offline
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Tararex  Offline
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Posts: 490
Middle Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by TromboneAl

Lat pulldowns BEHIND THE NECK are reported to be at best ineffective and at worst dangerous.

The Behind-the-Neck Lat Pull-Down

The myth: The best way to perform the lat pulldown is to pull the bar behind your head, down to your upper back

The truth: Unless you have very flexible shoulders, this exercise is difficult to do correctly, and can increase your risk for shoulder impingement syndrome—a painful condition in which the muscles or tendons of your rotator cuff become entrapped in your shoulder joint.

The alternative: Simple—just pull the bar in front of your head, down to your collarbone. You’ll work your back just as hard, but with less risk for injury.

From: http://www.menshealth.com/mhlists/a...the-Neck_Lat_Pull-Down.php#ixzz2AjOhlrfr



Perhaps true for some but not all. I am flexible and found that behind the neck pulls repaired misalignment and worked muscles lower in the mid-back that pulling the bar in front of the head did not. Males and females have different upper body structures so I'll defer that guys perhaps shouldn't do (or if so, do so carefully) "behind the head" lat pull downs because their more muscular structures can't take the additional torque.


[Linked Image]

Piano is hard work from beginning to forever. Accept this as truth or risk a quick exit with tail between legs.


Re: Overcoming Mid Back Pain [Re: NoteBender] #1980423
10/30/12 07:08 AM
10/30/12 07:08 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 37
Nova Scotia, Canada
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NoteBender Offline OP
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NoteBender  Offline OP
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Nova Scotia, Canada
Maybe I should clarify what I'm doing/calling Lat Pull Downs.

I'm not using a Lat Pull Down machine. And I too have read that Lat Pull Downs done behind the head have to be done with caution.

I am simply holding a resistance band between my arms overhead and pulling the band down in front of my head to just below the collarbone.


Monty -- KORG Pa600
Re: Overcoming Mid Back Pain [Re: NoteBender] #1980459
10/30/12 09:41 AM
10/30/12 09:41 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,578
Canada
keystring Offline
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Canada
When I started chasing posture issues, nobody ever mentioned the feet. Part of sitting at the piano is to sit more on the edge of the piano bench, which should be at a proper height, and if you do that, part of your weight will be on your feet - almost as if you are about to stand up. If your feet are not part of the picture, then you will have to counterbalance everything you do at the piano with your back. If you are too high or too low that also plays a role. If your wrists are stiff, not feathering your motions, then that strain can travel up into your neck and shoulders - and so it goes. Getting a good teacher is a good idea. There are also things like Alexander Technique and Feldenkreis (I don't have experience with either one). Just to say there are a couple of sides to this.

Re: Overcoming Mid Back Pain [Re: NoteBender] #1980467
10/30/12 10:09 AM
10/30/12 10:09 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 529
Bristol, UK
T
timmyab Offline
500 Post Club Member
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T

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 529
Bristol, UK
I've had trouble with this in the past.My solution was to turn the piano around 180 degrees and sit with my back against the wall and a cushion for support.There's also a radiator behind me as well so that the cushion is heated in the winter.No more problems since.

Re: Overcoming Mid Back Pain [Re: NoteBender] #1980969
10/31/12 02:29 PM
10/31/12 02:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 820
Northern, Northern California
TromboneAl Offline
500 Post Club Member
TromboneAl  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 820
Northern, Northern California
Something that helps me is to remember to have the left foot back, as shown by this guy:

[Linked Image]

When I do that, it effectively prevents me from rounding my back. Try moving that foot forward and back, and you can feel how it affects your back.


Re: Overcoming Mid Back Pain [Re: NoteBender] #2007855
01/02/13 09:56 AM
01/02/13 09:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 37
Nova Scotia, Canada
N
NoteBender Offline OP
Full Member
NoteBender  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 37
Nova Scotia, Canada
I had been forgetting to do my exercise routine and got back to it today. This prompted me to remember that I had promised I would update everyone on my outcome.

Well the mid-back pain has pretty much gone! Unfortunately, I can't say if there was any one specific thing that made the difference since I tried to incorporate almost everything that had been mentioned in this thread which included:

- The exercise routines outlined above,
- Reading the two books indicated above,
- Using a fully adjustable office chair (with arms removed),
- Five visits to a massage therapist to work out the "knots" in the rhomboid area,
- Sitting on the edge of the seat at a suitable height with part of my weight on the feet.

I want to thank everyone who made suggestions as they all helped me to be proactive.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Last edited by NoteBender; 01/02/13 12:31 PM.

Monty -- KORG Pa600
Re: Overcoming Mid Back Pain [Re: NoteBender] #2481595
11/17/15 11:37 AM
11/17/15 11:37 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 2
G
girltoronto Offline
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 2
hi NoteBender

I was wondering how long it took you to get better?

I have been having pain too and I just started doing exercises.

Thanks.

Re: Overcoming Mid Back Pain [Re: Tararex] #2481604
11/17/15 11:44 AM
11/17/15 11:44 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 2
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girltoronto Offline
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 2
Hi Tararex,

I had some questions about your posting. I have been having a lot of middle and upper back pain lately.

I was wondering how long it took you to get better and how often you did these two exercises?

Did you do the first exercise at the gym? And also, the second exercise how heavy does the weight need to be?

Thanks so much. Your help would be greatly appreciated.

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1971134/Overcoming%20Mid%20Back%20Pain.html

Re: Overcoming Mid Back Pain [Re: girltoronto] #2481634
11/17/15 01:07 PM
11/17/15 01:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 37
Nova Scotia, Canada
N
NoteBender Offline OP
Full Member
NoteBender  Offline OP
Full Member
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 37
Nova Scotia, Canada
Originally Posted by girltoronto
hi NoteBender

I was wondering how long it took you to get better?

I have been having pain too and I just started doing exercises.

Thanks.


I think it took a 2-3 months. In my specific case I believe I have a tendency to have ongoing tension in the left Rhomboid area of my back and playing the piano exacerbates the problem, however, as outlined in my previous posts the exercises as well as the other items helped significantly. I still sometimes need to get knots worked out once or twice a year by a massage therapist.

Unfortunately, I seem to have developed a little arthritis at the same height but in the spinal area.

The specific exercises are outlined earlier in the thread.

Last edited by NoteBender; 11/17/15 01:09 PM.

Monty -- KORG Pa600
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