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2nd Opinion Sought-Use of Lubricants #2479869
11/12/15 04:30 PM
11/12/15 04:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 3
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chickpea Offline OP
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chickpea  Offline OP
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Hello, I have been lurking around PianoWorld when I started to look for a new upright earlier this year and this site has provided me with information to help guide me finding a new piano and subsequently educational information on various nuances of new/old pianos. So a big thank you.

I bought a Yamaha YUS5 3 months ago, and I noticed soon enough there were strange noises when I depress the sustain pedal - it squeaks. Tuner came round for first tuning and rubbished my claim saying it is normal and this is how it is, and blaming my hearing is too acute and the piano is set in a too quiet place. Sent an email to dealer who got him to come back and investigate. Took a while, and he finally said that it was the damper wire/spring (coil part) rubbing against the "wooden" bit - so he sprayed protek prolube. Didn't last long, 2 weeks, came back on one single note. Now they say they will put vaseline on the damper wire/spring - I have read vaseline should go no where near a piano action. I asked them why on a new piano should you need lubricants - to which they never answered. I have concerns with them applying vaseline to the spring/wire.

I did look back at forum topics here back few years, found something similar but it was on Grand but no mention of vaseline use as lubricants, also looked up many topics on use of lubricants here but couldn't find something similar that would provide me with a 2nd opinion - hence my post.

Many thanks in advance!


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Re: 2nd Opinion Sought-Use of Lubricants [Re: chickpea] #2479880
11/12/15 05:14 PM
11/12/15 05:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
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Olek Offline
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vaselin is not good on wood as the wood absorb it, we use thicker pastes in that case (with some wax mixed)

noises from the pedals are annoying but can be traced, sometime one need to tilt the piano 90 degrees to have access under it

creaks coming between the panels edges and the cases can be heard as pedal noises

the metal pedal rods of Yamahas can be noisy too. as the big coiled spring

I had sometime to add a little cloth at some rubbing contact point

After oiling, some rubbing points are even more noisy than before (rubber or metal on wood for instance)


Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
Re: 2nd Opinion Sought-Use of Lubricants [Re: chickpea] #2479925
11/12/15 08:00 PM
11/12/15 08:00 PM
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Boston, MA
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bellspiano Offline
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I'm curious -- was the seller an official Yamaha dealer? And how do you know that it was a new piano?

I learned in piano-tech school never, never to use Vaseline on a piano, but I can't remember why, just that the teachers turned pale whenever they talked about it.


Dorrie Bell
retired piano technician
Boston, MA
Re: 2nd Opinion Sought-Use of Lubricants [Re: chickpea] #2479980
11/13/15 12:03 AM
11/13/15 12:03 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,222
Olympia, WA
rysowers Offline
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I find noisy damper spring cushions to be common on Yamaha pianos and applying Protek Prolube to the cushions is a simple and long-lasting remedy. However, I can't really picture "spraying" it in there. I use a needle applicator or a small artist brush. Protek products aren't exactly cheap, so it pays to not be putting it where you don't need it.

Vaseline could be OK, in theory if a small amount were wiped on the spring and wiped off leaving a thin film. However that would be a bit tricky to do in the piano. For some reason the OP's description is causing me to imagine someone dabbing a glob of it in there which would definitely be poor practice.

As much as I like Yamaha pianos and admire the company, they have one of the noisiest trapwork systems. (You can add their cheaper clones to the list too) All that metal seems to amplify any tick, click, are squeak. I work on plenty of 100 year-old uprights with old wooden trapwork levers that don't make a sound, and are much easier to work with.



Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net
Re: 2nd Opinion Sought-Use of Lubricants [Re: chickpea] #2480017
11/13/15 04:42 AM
11/13/15 04:42 AM
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Posts: 3
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chickpea Offline OP
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Thanks for the responses. Vaseline doesn't sound like a good idea it appears.

I did get it from a reputable shop - the staff were nice and helpful and very attentive when I mentioned the noise - unfortunately they are not piano techs. I would not name the place but you can guess from the hints - it is in the city with Big Ben, Abbey Road Studios, St Paul's Cathedral.......on a street that starts with "W" and has plenty of Boserndorfs Grands on display as well as Yamahas.

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1510264/Strange_key_clicks.html

Initially I thought it was the pedal mechanism, but the noise comes from the damper/action area - the above thread I came across when looking through older threads but it is on a Grand. Similar description - when I depress the keys (hammer not hitting the string) - the "squeak" starts when the damper starts to lift - you can feel the "resistance" - squeak squeak till fully depressed.

Yes it was sprayed on as (the tech said) it was an area that was difficult to get to.

Serial Number on the piano suggest it was manufactured in 2015 (I did check with Yamaha in Japan), arrived in the shop in June this year.

Thanks again!

Re: 2nd Opinion Sought-Use of Lubricants [Re: chickpea] #2480038
11/13/15 06:27 AM
11/13/15 06:27 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
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Olek Offline
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France
you can try to use a soft pen and put some graphite where the damper spring touch the blade , there is a small cloth.

may be they did sell you a mix of vaseline and talcum, or other as lanolin added.

btw lanolin is just perfect to put on the spring, just not very easy to attain. lanolin you can buy in pharmacy.

for some unknow reason, spraying ptfe does not work (in most cases, I just totally stopped to use sprays )

Last edited by Olek; 11/13/15 06:28 AM.

Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
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Re: 2nd Opinion Sought-Use of Lubricants [Re: chickpea] #2480047
11/13/15 07:09 AM
11/13/15 07:09 AM
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Scotland
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David Boyce Offline
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There may be some confusion about Protek - it's important to know that as well as Protek CLP liquid there is the thick Protek MPL 'grease', stiffer than vaseline. They have different piano applications, obviously.

OK, so Yamaha Music in Wardour Street, formerly Chappells of Bond Street.

I find that although it can take quite a bit of very careful listening, it is generally possible to find out exactly which component of the pedal work is generating the sound. And then proceed accordingly with thin or thick lubricant or new leather or cloth or whatever (on older pianos).

I don't like the sound of the tuner who rubbished your claim. It's really not a rubbishable claim, since it's audible enough and bothering you enough to come on here and ask about it. Persevere - you will get it fixed!

Last edited by David Boyce; 11/13/15 07:12 AM.
Re: 2nd Opinion Sought-Use of Lubricants [Re: chickpea] #2480191
11/13/15 01:39 PM
11/13/15 01:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 319
Philippines
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electone2007 Offline
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The last Yamaha upright I had, had this similar squeak when depressing a key. Sometimes it coukd be "felt" rather then heard.

I traced it to the capstan-whippen heel interface. If I remember right, I polished the capstan surface with a clean cloth. Then I took a soft toothbrush and lightly brushed the whippen heel surface (leather?). No lubricants.

Aside from eliminating the squeak, the touch got better.

I'm not a tech, but I thought this might help.


Re: 2nd Opinion Sought-Use of Lubricants [Re: chickpea] #2480212
11/13/15 02:27 PM
11/13/15 02:27 PM
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Oakland
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BDB Offline
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One thing that you can check easily is tightening the action bolts. If they are loose, the action can move when the pedal is depressed, and that can squeak.

The protocol for checking damper pedal squeaks is to move each part individually, starting with the furthest piece from the pedal.


Semipro Tech
Re: 2nd Opinion Sought-Use of Lubricants [Re: electone2007] #2480217
11/13/15 02:33 PM
11/13/15 02:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
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Olek Offline
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Originally Posted by electone2007
The last Yamaha upright I had, had this similar squeak when depressing a key. Sometimes it coukd be "felt" rather then heard.

I traced it to the capstan-whippen heel interface. If I remember right, I polished the capstan surface with a clean cloth. Then I took a soft toothbrush and lightly brushed the whippen heel surface (leather?). No lubricants.

Aside from eliminating the squeak, the touch got better.

I'm not a tech, but I thought this might help.



Hello, Yamaha capstan are protected with a lube coating. A surface treatment, no way to now precise what it is.
So So we cannot polish them.

Of course cleaning can help


Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
Re: 2nd Opinion Sought-Use of Lubricants [Re: chickpea] #2482486
11/19/15 05:35 PM
11/19/15 05:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 3
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chickpea Offline OP
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Many thanks for all the suggestions. They sent another tech around, and I voiced some concerns re use of vaseline so he suggested cleaning (no polishing) the suspected part first. It was where the damper spring "pivots" against the damper lever. Less than a minute and the noise on that key was gone.
I was very pleased indeed. The suggestions here on potential sources of the noise made me look up the web for more info, so feeling more confident when talking to the tech and the advice here against vaseline helped avert/avoid the use of it. It took a few months, more than 3 I think - to-ing and fro-ing.


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