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Seriously pissed off that Pianofiles has been shutdown #2312684
08/07/14 08:59 PM
08/07/14 08:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 304
MA, USA
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blueston Offline OP
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I just found out about pianofiles.com being shutdown by intimidation from music publishers.

This is a huge loss. It was an excellent site to find people that had done accurate transcriptions and other hard to find sheets that you CAN'T buy anywhere anyway.

The music publishers have pushed inaccurate laughably simplified PVG crap for so long what did they expect? If they actually put some effort into actually "Transcribing" some music properly then people might actually buy more of it. Why should I pay for a subpar version that is basically a fraud. They pretend to sell you the sheet, that supposedly is the notes of the song. $5-20 later you find out you've been ripped off because it does no such thing, and you still can't play the music anywhere near the way it sounds in real life.

There is some more accurate music starting to become available "Pro" versions that MusicNotes has been selling more of (Which I do buy by the way, YES, pianofiles never stopped me from buying music online) but it's few and far between.

And before you say it, yes I can transcribe easy, chord stuff, to medium pop songs. But I don't have 6 hours to transcribe thick heavy stuff like most Billy Joel, Elton John, Bruce Hornsby, George Winston, and the like.

If the music publishers are too incompetent to provide accurate versions of those then they should forfeit their rights to the volunteer that got off their butt and did the hard work (who doesn't even profit from it either by the way).

Let's all drink to the lazy, greedy, good for nothing music publishers.

Last edited by blueston; 08/07/14 09:00 PM.
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Re: Seriously pissed off that Pianofiles has been shutdown [Re: blueston] #2312771
08/08/14 02:03 AM
08/08/14 02:03 AM
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de cajon Offline
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Totally agree. Most sheet music is laughable. Here in the UK a few years (or decades) ago, a TV comedian - just a "regular" comedian - did a sketch about guitar music. It must have seemed bizarre to the average viewer but this guy must have been a guitar player feeling the same kind of frustration. In the sketch he looks at a page of a song book and plays what's written. Naturally, it's all but unrecognizable. What was clever was that with each piece he attempted, the actual player walked in to his room at some point playing the piece properly. The funniest, and the only one I still remember was David Gilmour of Pink Floyd; but there was a stream of at least half a dozen of the great and good, each illustrating the hopeless difference between the sheet music and the piece.

Thank goodness there's still the rest of the internet and a bunch of people willing to put the time in to transcribe stuff well.


Yamaha C3X SH
Re: Seriously pissed off that Pianofiles has been shutdown [Re: de cajon] #2312834
08/08/14 07:02 AM
08/08/14 07:02 AM
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TimR Offline
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Originally Posted by de cajon

Thank goodness there's still the rest of the internet and a bunch of people willing to put the time in to transcribe steal stuff and share it well.


Fixed that for you.

Yeah, it's convenient, but we've also always known it was theft.


gotta go practice
Re: Seriously pissed off that Pianofiles has been shutdown [Re: blueston] #2313424
08/09/14 12:06 PM
08/09/14 12:06 PM
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blueston Offline OP
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Spoken like a true music publisher.

But millions of TAB on dozens of sites is fine. Sure. No problem. No need to take those sites down. Guitarists are okay. Let's just screw the pianists. Makes total sense.

Re: Seriously pissed off that Pianofiles has been shutdown [Re: blueston] #2314547
08/12/14 12:36 PM
08/12/14 12:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
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not in Japan anymore
ShiroKuro Offline
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Blueston, on the one hand I agree with a lot of your comments, poorly transcribed sheet music is awful and it's very frustrating that we have to buy something before we can even find out whether it's true to the original or not. And there's nothing more frustrating than wanting a score and it being not available anywhere. I can't play by ear and I can't transcribe, so if I can't get the score for something, then that piece of music is forever out of my reach.

But I saw tons of sheets on PianoFiles that were copyrighted pieces that people scanned in and shared anyway, disregarding the copyright. And most of the users of PianoFiles seemed to be folks who are trying to avoid paying for sheet music that is available for purchase. You might be able to say that PianoFiles never stopped you from buying music online, but I believe you're in the minority in that. That's why I stopped using PianoFiles, because I could see that rather than offering transcriptions of pieces for which there are no other scores, most of it was people violating copyrights, and for a lot of composers who are still living (i.e. not just Wolfgang and Ludwig). But even with music where the composer is no longer living, a good quality score that's laid out well and easy to read required someone's time to create and it's not fair to expect to be able to get that for free.

If everyone used pianofiles only for scores that are truly not available otherwise, it wouldn't have gotten shut down. But people do use it to avoid paying for scores and that's why it caught the attention of the music publishing industry.



Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u

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Re: Seriously pissed off that Pianofiles has been shutdown [Re: blueston] #2314813
08/13/14 02:14 AM
08/13/14 02:14 AM
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The problem IMHO is that the ownwers of these sites keep the ID of their uploaders hidden. Therefore the illegal uploaders can not be persecuted personally.

I have such a case with scribd, where a pdf authored by me is made shared illegally by someone and scribd will not cooperate in giving me the real ID of the uploader. You can ask scribd to remove the file but of course that is useless as the damage already has been done.


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Re: Seriously pissed off that Pianofiles has been shutdown [Re: blueston] #2314953
08/13/14 09:56 AM
08/13/14 09:56 AM
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not in Japan anymore
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That's an interesting solution. Unfortunately, it would take so much effort and time that the sites probably would never consider it. And then we get the current situation -- people sharing some sheets illegally and making the whole system unavailable even to those who would like to use it legally.


Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u

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Re: Seriously pissed off that Pianofiles has been shutdown [Re: blueston] #2341332
10/25/14 12:14 PM
10/25/14 12:14 PM
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eldritch Offline
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There is already a very simmilar website to pianofiles - swappano.com

Re: Seriously pissed off that Pianofiles has been shutdown [Re: blueston] #2349578
11/13/14 12:08 PM
11/13/14 12:08 PM
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I use scribd quite a bit, and am only rarely let down. (I was looking for a very specific lead sheet recently, which I just paid MusicNotes their $3 for...) And the $8/mo. subscription lets me do it guilt-free. I have no idea if it's actually legal, but it at least feels *more* legal. smile

Re: Seriously pissed off that Pianofiles has been shutdown [Re: de cajon] #2354537
11/25/14 09:26 AM
11/25/14 09:26 AM
Joined: May 2013
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Beemer Offline
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Originally Posted by de cajon
Totally agree. Most sheet music is laughable. Here in the UK a few years (or decades) ago, a TV comedian - just a "regular" comedian - did a sketch about guitar music. It must have seemed bizarre to the average viewer but this guy must have been a guitar player feeling the same kind of frustration. In the sketch he looks at a page of a song book and plays what's written. Naturally, it's all but unrecognizable. What was clever was that with each piece he attempted, the actual player walked in to his room at some point playing the piece properly. The funniest, and the only one I still remember was David Gilmour of Pink Floyd; but there was a stream of at least half a dozen of the great and good, each illustrating the hopeless difference between the sheet music and the piece.

Thank goodness there's still the rest of the internet and a bunch of people willing to put the time in to transcribe stuff well.


http://www.smnnews.com/2013/03/23/the-easy-guitar-book-sketch-feat-gilmour-knopfler-and-lemmy/


I'm all keyed up
2016 Bl├╝thner Model A
Re: Seriously pissed off that Pianofiles has been shutdown [Re: blueston] #2387571
02/17/15 05:10 PM
02/17/15 05:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
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9190 Offline
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Try again guys:
http://www.pianofiles.com
And remember this new address (sheeto.com). Welcome back to "Pianofiles" with its all saved database.


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Re: Seriously pissed off that Pianofiles has been shutdown [Re: blueston] #2388592
02/20/15 08:35 AM
02/20/15 08:35 AM
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erichlof Offline
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9190,
Thanks for the heads up! Just bookmarked it smile

Re: Seriously pissed off that Pianofiles has been shutdown [Re: blueston] #2388633
02/20/15 10:00 AM
02/20/15 10:00 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,535
UK
Nikolas Offline
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Nikolas  Offline
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Well...

First thing I did was to search for "schnittke" and came up with 3700+ results. Then I search for Sideris (my last name) and came up with 1 result! Schnittke is more famous than me.

But you know what?

It's truly a disgrace that some people will NOT help living composers, living publishers, living musicians, to actually MAKE a living (see what I did here?) with their music and instead will run off to the most convenient illegal way, which also happens to be free!

Oh, btw, transcriptions of songs are ALSO illegal.

And I DO speak like a true publisher cause I am one! frown

Re: Seriously pissed off that Pianofiles has been shutdown [Re: blueston] #2388675
02/20/15 11:36 AM
02/20/15 11:36 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 430
AZ, USA
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Well, then maybe you are the person to ask. Most of what I play is from a source called Sheet Music Magazine, which published from 1977 to 2012, so I assume that since they never stopped publishing thru all those years, they paid the artists as required. So, having these magazines, which I received by subscription or bought thru ebay, should be legal.

But, because of many reasons, I want to have these renditions on my computer, so I have copied over these pieces of music into notation software for my use, NOT FOR SHARING, but I have and will always keep the original legal copy.

Am I doing something illegal?

The originals had outright mistakes that it does not take a musician to recognize. The originals in the magazines were bloated in terms of the number of pages used, foot pedal lines, pictures, stretching to fill the page, etc. I have been able to reduce most pieces to 2 pages (great for using hard copies), including removing the repeats by repeating the notes directly on the page in many cases to ease the process of reading for a beginner. Also, I didn't like the arrangement in some pieces, like being jazzed up with too many 1/16th notes, when I felt a more melodic rendition was my cup of tea and changed the version accordingly.


Cynthia

Roland FP-50
Conover Upright, 1888/9, but a very low mileage piano. http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/conover_upright_piano__1888_or_9 .
Tuneless = Don't play piano yet but getting there.
I'm technically very capable. I love my piano and love tinkering with it.
Re: Seriously pissed off that Pianofiles has been shutdown [Re: blueston] #2388719
02/20/15 01:22 PM
02/20/15 01:22 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,535
UK
Nikolas Offline
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Cynthia,

Unfortunately and actually yes what you're doing is "illegal".

Now, notice these details. First of all I'm a human being first of all, a consumer, a pianist, a composer, a publisher, a dad, etc... There's not an inch of me that hasn't done something "illegal". I mean my guess is that everyone, at some point, in one way or another did something "illegal".

When I was growing up my teacher photocopied some scores for me, which I kept for many years and then bought for the better quality that a published score offers.

At some point I was also curious for that and checked with the lovely people at Hyperion Records (a Brit company). I asked them if it's ok to create an mp3 to use in my computers, from a CD I bought from them. They told me that it's illegal, but certainly they are not after nice people who are their customers.

Bottom line is this: A score that is out of reach (out of print, for example), a transcription which seriously sucks, etc, for me should be ok to even share (even if illegal, unfortunately). In a similar notion, I'd wish that copyrights would expire 5-10 years after the death of the composer and not 50-70 (depending on the country). This means that all the music that you and I love is out of reach, to care for, to put in youtube, to performer without royalties, etc, even though the creator is dead... frown

BTW, if you think about it a large part of what's inside youtube is illegal as well. Who said that a user could upload something is not his/her? But that's it! The downside of this is that I (for example) play some Mozart sonata (certainly with no copyrights), and yet youtube flags it as copyrighted material for EMI (for example). And this HAS happened (check for pianodad, who posted about this in pianoworld).

So, yes, "illegal", but really, SO WHAT?

______________________________

BTW, my scores are not pirated yet, but my recorded music is. Of course I have not gained more than 100 US$ from CDBaby at the moment, but it's peculiar to know that people can grab the music that you did with paid software, paid education and paid time,... for free.

______________________________

Final thought... The creator (web master?) of pianofiles was the same guy who helped create musescore! laugh It's quite interesting that there is a very specific mentality and there's not some kind of an evil kind of UBER PIRATE after all music... wink


I believe it's Thomas Bonte, but I could be mistaken, so don't quote me on that.

Last edited by Nikolas; 02/20/15 01:23 PM.
Re: Seriously pissed off that Pianofiles has been shutdown [Re: Nikolas] #2388769
02/20/15 03:03 PM
02/20/15 03:03 PM
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uk south
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Originally Posted by Nikolas

At some point I was also curious for that and checked with the lovely people at Hyperion Records (a Brit company). I asked them if it's ok to create an mp3 to use in my computers, from a CD I bought from them. They told me that it's illegal, but certainly they are not after nice people who are their customers.



They changed the law now (in the uk that is). Finally people who put music on their iPod are not music stealing criminals.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/mar/31/uk-copyright-tweak-legally-rip-cds-ipod

Re: Seriously pissed off that Pianofiles has been shutdown [Re: blueston] #2388778
02/20/15 03:21 PM
02/20/15 03:21 PM
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In the United States it is illegal to make a copy of copyrighted works. There are exceptions under the "Fair Use Act" for parody, libraries and excerpts. But the digital backup of works you have purchased is a very gray area that hasn't been tested in case law. The reason is because publishers aren't willing to chance losing. Because to sue someone for damages you have to prove you have been harmed, this is known in the legal profession as "standing". In case law the easy test if that you cannot do something is:

Are you copying to avoid purchase.
Are you copying music for any kind of performance (note: there are emergency exceptions here).
I.E You have the music on order but it didn't ship in time
Copying without including copyright notice.
Copying to create anthologies or compilations.
Reproducing material designed to be consumable such as workbooks, standardized tests and answer sheets.

The digitizing for personal use as a backup is really hard to prove the author has been harmed.
So for right now it is a legal gray area that hasn't been tested in the courts.
And really is small potatoes compared to what is happening on the Internet.

Publishers are smart, they know that if they push too far and enough people push back, that laws can be amended. In the consumer internet culture, you have companies catering to the consumer. Digitizing software is readily available, and companies make a lot of money making things easy for the consumer. The publishers could sue a grandma and end up fighting Apple, Google and Microsoft for their very existence.



Last edited by Kbeaumont; 02/20/15 03:32 PM.

A long long time ago, I can still remember
How that music used to make me smile....
Re: Seriously pissed off that Pianofiles has been shutdown [Re: blueston] #2388813
02/20/15 04:46 PM
02/20/15 04:46 PM
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Nikolas Offline
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beeboss: Yup, I knew that this was coming (since I did my PhD in London and was following the news back in 2009 or so)... smile Thanks for confirming that it has happened finally.

Re: Seriously pissed off that Pianofiles has been shutdown [Re: wouter79] #2388900
02/20/15 10:41 PM
02/20/15 10:41 PM
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Polyphonist Offline
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Originally Posted by wouter79
The problem IMHO is that the ownwers of these sites keep the ID of their uploaders hidden. Therefore the illegal uploaders can not be persecuted personally.

Do you perhaps mean prosecuted? whome


Regards,

Polyphonist
Re: Seriously pissed off that Pianofiles has been shutdown [Re: blueston] #2389149
02/21/15 01:37 PM
02/21/15 01:37 PM
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So, are there sites that ask you to pay a fee for a song's download that results in a payment to the artists collection agency? And if they exist, how to I prove that the copy was legal because the artists received compensation.


Cynthia

Roland FP-50
Conover Upright, 1888/9, but a very low mileage piano. http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/conover_upright_piano__1888_or_9 .
Tuneless = Don't play piano yet but getting there.
I'm technically very capable. I love my piano and love tinkering with it.
Re: Seriously pissed off that Pianofiles has been shutdown [Re: blueston] #2389455
02/22/15 05:13 AM
02/22/15 05:13 AM
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Nikolas Offline
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Cynthia, I wouldn't know, since I don't deal with pop music, but for example my computer game soundtracks (recordings) are available in amazon.com and CDBaby and itunes and I bet they are legal, since I collect royalties. And so is my classical recordings.

My music scores (contemporary classical music) can be found in the link in my signature and along with the other 20+ composers in there (and many many more to come) are collecting their royalties properly! wink

Re: Seriously pissed off that Pianofiles has been shutdown [Re: blueston] #2471882
10/19/15 01:51 PM
10/19/15 01:51 PM
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Buying a music CD, listening to it, memorizing it (making backup copies of the songs to your brain neurons), and then playing the songs in your head is also illegal, and if you hum or whistle the songs (especially badly) you will be shot.

Re: Seriously pissed off that Pianofiles has been shutdown [Re: blueston] #2476380
11/01/15 09:17 PM
11/01/15 09:17 PM
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Good artists borrow. Great artists steal!


"Imagine it in all its primatic colorings, its counterpart in our souls - our souls that are great pianos whose strings, of honey and of steel, the divisions of the rainbow set twanging, loosing on the air great novels of adventure!" - William Carlos Williams
Re: Seriously pissed off that Pianofiles has been shutdown [Re: blueston] #2477609
11/05/15 04:03 PM
11/05/15 04:03 PM
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One thing that I do is make my own edited versions of sheet music that I have (bought). Both of my hands are busy when I'm playing the piano and turning pages just isn't convenient, so I'll make copies of the pages or sheets which I'll then cut into strips of just the melody line and chords and tape to a blank sheet in order to compact the score down to 2 pages, and then make photocopies of that to use in a binder. I keep the original sheet music and books intact.


What do snowflakes and Chickerings have in common? There are no two exactly alike!

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