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Yamaha Reface Keyboards #2440386
07/10/15 11:36 PM
07/10/15 11:36 PM
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FrankDaddy Offline OP
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I saw a video on Keyboardmag.com about the new Yamaha Reface line. Interesting concept since they are such a throwback to the 80s and 90s. I personally do not like the tiny keys but you can use a full size MIDI controller. It looks like they are targeting us baby boomers and maybe Generation Xers. Just wondering what other folks think of the concept including the social media products coming later.

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Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: FrankDaddy] #2440393
07/11/15 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by FrankDaddy
I saw a video on Keyboardmag.com about the new Yamaha Reface line. Interesting concept since they are such a throwback to the 80s and 90s. I personally do not like the tiny keys but you can use a full size MIDI controller. It looks like they are targeting us baby boomers and maybe Generation Xers. Just wondering what other folks think of the concept including the social media products coming later.


i love the sound and the way they work... really nifty design, all controllers are designed to controll several parameters at the same time

i hate the fact that there are mini keys on it. This single fact makes them useless for anything serious.

They are way to expensive for wwhat they offer. for €500 someone would expect 37 fine normal sized keys with aftertouch.. and all these 4 bars with sliders and knobs on top of it..

Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: FrankDaddy] #2440492
07/11/15 12:26 PM
07/11/15 12:26 PM
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1. The retro movement has kept an already hopelessly backward industry firmly mired in the past, so I kinda loathe it just on principle.

2. As you both state: no excuse for toy keys on anything even vaguely serious.

3. Social media as a product driver can go jump in a lake.

In conclusion: zero interest from me.

Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: FrankDaddy] #2440760
07/12/15 12:09 PM
07/12/15 12:09 PM
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FrankDaddy Offline OP
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Dewster just cut to the chase! smile

I am in IT and I bet Yamaha is betting the social media as a product driver will become one day a revenue stream. I think it will but only if it works across different platforms. Also the sneak peak was worse than no peak. I did not see any utility in the social media for a proprietary product line. i.e. to be used only their products. Virtual software is going to force the issue by us using the Midi controller we like with the soft instruments we want. So I think Yammie is fighting an uphill battle. Also Korg has staked that high ground now with their microkorgs and will be hard to catch.

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Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: FrankDaddy] #2440777
07/12/15 01:08 PM
07/12/15 01:08 PM
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David Farley Offline
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For the price of one of those things you could buy an iPad and the Korg Gadget and Module apps to go with it. You'd get way more toys to play with.

I'm reading reviews about these things as if they were Yamaha's greatest gift to mankind ever. I don't get it.

Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: David Farley] #2440780
07/12/15 01:19 PM
07/12/15 01:19 PM
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Ergonomics/control. Interacting with well-placed real physical controls makes a dedicated organ or synth a different experience from an iPad simulation.

Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: FrankDaddy] #2475924
10/31/15 02:18 PM
10/31/15 02:18 PM
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Is there a DP or midi-key that can control (in split mode/different zones) at least 2 of these marvelous "toys" simultaneously? Sounds & controls/effects are pretty cool!
I would like to have a, let's say NUMA COMPACT or CASIO PX-350 and 2 of these - CP & YC, triggered by DP's upper zone (one at a time, without changing midi cables), leaving the lower zone for internal sounds. Or even trigger both sound engines (layering internal & CP/YC) by this upper zone...

Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: FrankDaddy] #2475931
10/31/15 02:38 PM
10/31/15 02:38 PM
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Basically, you need to be able to save and recall custom presets that can include an upper zone that can be assigned to transmit on one MIDI channel, another MIDI channel, both, or neither. The models you mention won't do it. I think the least expensive 88s with built-in sounds that could so this would be the Casio PX5S and probably also Korg Kross and Kurzweil SP4-8. At the next tier up, besides other Korg and Kurzweil models, you'd also have the Yamaha MOXF8 (not sure about the CP40) and I think Kawai MP7. Not sure about the Rolands.


Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: FrankDaddy] #2475966
10/31/15 04:25 PM
10/31/15 04:25 PM
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Charles Cohen Online content
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I just checked this:

Originally Posted by aotherscott
. . . The models you mention won't do it.


If you put the PX-350 into "split" mode, the top half of the keyboard sends data on MIDI channel 1, and the bottom half sends on MIDI channel 3.

[Pianoteq plays both channels (by default), but its "MIDI" window reports the change in channel as you go down the keyboard.]

I don't know if that's enough to satisfy the OP's request. The PX-350 would need a MIDI splitter to feed both Reface keyboards (or a computer running MIDI-Ox), and you'd have to be able to tell the Reface keyboards to only respond to MIDI channel 1, or channel 3 (as appropriate).

It's an interesting idea . . .


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: Charles Cohen] #2475972
10/31/15 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
I just checked this:

Originally Posted by aotherscott
. . . The models you mention won't do it.


If you put the PX-350 into "split" mode, the top half of the keyboard sends data on MIDI channel 1, and the bottom half sends on MIDI channel 3.
...
I don't know if that's enough to satisfy the OP's request.

That would work if he wanted to trigger one Reface from the top section of his split and the other Reface from the bottom. Since he wants to trigger them both from the top (sometimes one, sometimes the other, sometimes both), the PX350 won't do, he'd have to go up to the PX5S to get that kind of MIDI flexibility.

With the PX350, he'd have to physically connect/disconnect the different modules at different times to accomplish this. Or routinely change the MIDI receive channels on the Reface units depending on what he wanted to do at that moment. But none of that is very convenient. He really wants a board that allows him to selectively transmit to one board, the other, or both, at any given time, which the PX350 can't do.

Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: FrankDaddy] #2475998
10/31/15 06:21 PM
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My local shop has the YC and CS on display. They sound very good and with regard to the YC I really enjoyed the simplicity of operation. I do not enjoy playing on the mini keys. I could get by if I had to, but I don't. I think the YC could have been offered in 61 key with a Motif ROM (like the MX49 or MX61) and done well against the Roland VR-09.

Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: FrankDaddy] #2476005
10/31/15 06:55 PM
10/31/15 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
. . . He really wants a board that allows him to selectively transmit to one board, the other, or both, at any given time, which the PX350 can't do.


I re-read the question -- you're right.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: FrankDaddy] #2476128
11/01/15 08:51 AM
11/01/15 08:51 AM
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Thanks,

@anotherscott

- In this regard, SP4-7 (which I own but dislike the piano sound) is the same as SP4-8 right?

@everyone

- Is there a little box (midi-splitter) that has a switch to select between its outputs?

- In these reface boards we can select receiving midi channels?

Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: sonicblasphemy] #2476153
11/01/15 10:04 AM
11/01/15 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by sonicblasphemy

. . .
- In these reface boards we can select receiving midi channels?


Yes -- the manual is very clear:

. . . MIDI Receiving channel -- any one of 1 - 16, or "All".

Page 21, here:

http://download.yamaha.com/api/asset/file/?language=en&site=ae.yamaha.com&asset_id=65255



. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: sonicblasphemy] #2476163
11/01/15 10:31 AM
11/01/15 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by sonicblasphemy
In this regard, SP4-7 (which I own but dislike the piano sound) is the same as SP4-8 right?

Yup, should work fine. I was only talking about 88s because I figured that's what you wanted based on the boards you mentioned, but sure, there are numerous sub-88 boards that will do this, too.

Originally Posted by sonicblasphemy
- Is there a little box (midi-splitter) that has a switch to select between its outputs?

MIDI splitters are typically called MIDI Thru boxes. Ones that have switches (or in some case, programmable controls) that let you redirect the MIDI In(s) to different Outs may also be called MIDI Patchbays. There aren't as many of these around as there used to be, you might have to look on eBay. You could look for something like a Casio TB1 or the similar unit from MidiMan.

Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: FrankDaddy] #2476186
11/01/15 11:24 AM
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What about making myself a "Y" cable splitter with a switch to select betwen 2 outs? As I saw there are cable splitters without electronics... [Linked Image]

Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: sonicblasphemy] #2476190
11/01/15 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by sonicblasphemy
What about making myself a "Y" cable splitter with a switch to select betwen 2 outs? As I saw there are cable splitters without electronics...

I'm not sure it's as simple as that... I think maybe you'd only want to switch the wires that are carrying MIDI data (as opposed to voltage and ground). Some gear doesn't like having these connections made after the boards are powered up, and may behave erratically.

Regardless, this wouldn't allow for the scenario where you might want to trigger both modules at once... and actually, I'm not sure the Thru boxes I mentioned (Casio, Midiman) do, either.

Why not just use your SP4-7? Or is there some other board you'd prefer to use? If you'll be buying a new board, as mentioned, there are plenty of boards that will have this kind of functionality built in.

Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: Charles Cohen] #2476191
11/01/15 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
Originally Posted by sonicblasphemy

. . .
- In these reface boards we can select receiving midi channels?


Yes -- the manual is very clear:

. . . MIDI Receiving channel -- any one of 1 - 16, or "All".

Page 21, here:

http://download.yamaha.com/api/asset/file/?language=en&site=ae.yamaha.com&asset_id=65255



Page 21 only refers to reface DX which has a display and setting menu.

See page 36 for the rest of them...

Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: anotherscott] #2476200
11/01/15 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by sonicblasphemy
What about making myself a "Y" cable splitter with a switch to select betwen 2 outs? As I saw there are cable splitters without electronics...

I'm not sure it's as simple as that... I think maybe you'd only want to switch the wires that are carrying MIDI data (as opposed to voltage and ground). Some gear doesn't like having these connections made after the boards are powered up, and may behave erratically.

Regardless, this wouldn't allow for the scenario where you might want to trigger both modules at once... and actually, I'm not sure the Thru boxes I mentioned (Casio, Midiman) do, either.

Why not just use your SP4-7? Or is there some other board you'd prefer to use? If you'll be buying a new board, as mentioned, there are plenty of boards that will have this kind of functionality built in.


In this context I'd need at least 73/76 keys, semi or full weighted (good keybed as Privia, TP40 or TP8) and a decent AP sound.

I won't layer CP & YC together, just one of them and maybe internal on upper keys...

Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: sonicblasphemy] #2476201
11/01/15 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by sonicblasphemy
In this context I'd need at least 73/76 keys, semi or full weighted (good keybed as Privia, TP40 or TP8) and a decent AP sound.

7x boards are more rare than 61s and 88s, especially in the lower price range, so you'd probably stil be looking at the 88s I mentioned earlier. In a 7x, you could upgrade from the Kurz SP4-7 to the Artis7, which has the TP8 and a better piano sound than the SP4.

Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: FrankDaddy] #2476214
11/01/15 01:06 PM
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So, as much as I like reface YC, CP & DX, I'd better buy an electro 5D 61 and a PX-350. It seems to be the best "combo" for almost anything...

Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: sonicblasphemy] #2476219
11/01/15 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by sonicblasphemy
So, as much as I like reface YC, CP & DX, I'd better buy an electro 5D 61 and a PX-350. It seems to be the best "combo" for almost anything...

There are many possible ways to go, and no single "best."

But if you want that kind of setup, you also might consider the PX5S over the PX350. Not only does it have a lot of better sounds, it's also a more verrsatile MIDI controller. For example, you could use its buttons to call up different sounds on the Nord, or to split/layer its 88 keys between a Casio sound and a Nord sound. But if *all* you want to use it for is to trigger the Nord's piano sound, then yeah, the 350 will do.

Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: FrankDaddy] #2476221
11/01/15 01:20 PM
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Rumors on facebook indicate a 5th keyboard in the reface range, the VL

Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: Bachus] #2476224
11/01/15 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Bachus
Rumors on facebook indicate a 5th keyboard in the reface range, the VL

Interesting! The DX is kind of like an updated PLG150-DX/DX200, and the CS is kind of like the PLG150AN/AN200. A new take on the PLG150-VL could be very cool.

Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: anotherscott] #2476226
11/01/15 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by sonicblasphemy
So, as much as I like reface YC, CP & DX, I'd better buy an electro 5D 61 and a PX-350. It seems to be the best "combo" for almost anything...

There are many possible ways to go, and no single "best."

But if you want that kind of setup, you also might consider the PX5S over the PX350. Not only does it have a lot of better sounds, it's also a more verrsatile MIDI controller. For example, you could use its buttons to call up different sounds on the Nord, or to split/layer its 88 keys between a Casio sound and a Nord sound. But if *all* you want to use it for is to trigger the Nord's piano sound, then yeah, the 350 will do.


Can you elaborate a bit on sound differences between PX5S and PX350?

Last edited by sonicblasphemy; 11/01/15 02:01 PM.
Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: sonicblasphemy] #2476235
11/01/15 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by sonicblasphemy
Can you elaborate a bit on sound differences between PX5S and PX350?

Mike Martin posted this on the Casio music forum:
Quote
While the PX-350 and PX-5S do have the sample piano sample, they don't have the same "piano sound". The PX-5S has a different effects engine which sonically is a different league. {There} is a 4 band EQ which the PX-350 does not have. The PX-5S can reproduce sympathetic resonance and lid simulation effects which the PX-350 can not. It also has release velocity which changes the legato, staccato response of the sound. So while the starting point is the same, what the PX-5S does with it is different.

You also have far more tools available to customize the sound yourself. And there are additional variations of the piano sound that you can download from the casiomusicforums site (including one that was a significant improvement, for me personally).

The PX350 is pretty bad for EPs, the PX5S is quite good, and again, there are still more variations you can download into it.

It has a pretty capable synth section built into it, which the PX-350 doesn't have at all.

Really, to me, there's no comparison. The PX-5S is a good sounding all-around board, the PX-350 not so much (though I know there are many people here who are perfectly content with it, at least as a piano).

You could also check into the PX-360, which doesn't have the MIDI functionality or sound editing capabilities of the PX5S (among other things), but I believe has many (most?) of its sonic improvements, in terms of its piano and other sampled instruments.

Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: anotherscott] #2476237
11/01/15 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by sonicblasphemy
Can you elaborate a bit on sound differences between PX5S and PX350?

Mike Martin posted this on the Casio music forum:
Quote
While the PX-350 and PX-5S do have the sample piano sample, they don't have the same "piano sound". The PX-5S has a different effects engine which sonically is a different league. {There} is a 4 band EQ which the PX-350 does not have. The PX-5S can reproduce sympathetic resonance and lid simulation effects which the PX-350 can not. It also has release velocity which changes the legato, staccato response of the sound. So while the starting point is the same, what the PX-5S does with it is different.

You also have far more tools available to customize the sound yourself. And there are additional variations of the piano sound that you can download from the casiomusicforums site (including one that was a significant improvement, for me personally).

The PX350 is pretty bad for EPs, the PX5S is quite good, and again, there are still more variations you can download into it.

It has a pretty capable synth section built into it, which the PX-350 doesn't have at all.

Really, to me, there's no comparison. The PX-5S is a good sounding all-around board, the PX-350 not so much (though I know there are many people here who are perfectly content with it, at least as a piano).

You could also check into the PX-360, which doesn't have the MIDI functionality or sound editing capabilities of the PX5S (among other things), but I believe has many (most?) of its sonic improvements, in terms of its piano and other sampled instruments.


What's above the "CASIO" logo on the back of PX5S? smile

Thanks!

Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: sonicblasphemy] #2476241
11/01/15 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by sonicblasphemy
What's above the "CASIO" logo on the back of PX5S?

The battery compartment. (The PX5S can run on batteries.)

Re: Yamaha Reface Keyboards [Re: FrankDaddy] #2476248
11/01/15 02:39 PM
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Regarding these organ-oriented boards like the mini reface YC on bottom and electro 5D on top, what's your opinion about Roland VR-09?


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