Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum are 3/4 and 6/8 the same?

can I say that it is the same 3/4 and 6/8 ?

Sure can.

2x3 = 6
2x4 = 8

3/4 - 3 beats to a measure, quarter note gets 1 beat
6/8 - 6 beats to a measure, eighth note gets 1 beat

Wow, Derick II . . . .

3/4 is 3 beats a measure, called simple triple time.

6/8 is 2 beats a measure. Each beat is divided into three 8th notes, kind of like playing triplets. It is referred to as compund duple time.

They both have the same number of eighth notes, but otherwise they are very different.

No, they are not the same. 3/4 has three beats per measure, one per quarter note, with one major accent on the first beat. 6/8 has six beats per measure, one per eighth note, and a major accent on the first beat and a minor accent on the fourth. 3/4 is a triple meter, 6/8 is a compound meter.

This should have been posted in the Pianist Corner.

6/8 is often played with accents on the first and fourth counts. Then it is played as having two beats to the measure, with each beat being a dotted quarter note.

BDB, you are correct.

If one is playing in 6/8 and treating it like 3/4 (meaning you are placing equal emphasis on beats 1 and 4), then he/she is missing the point of duple and triple meter.

In 6/8, the accent on beat one is stronger than the accent on beat 4.

EXAMPLE in 6/8:
STRONGEST, weak, weak, STRONG, weak, weak.

in 3/4: STRONG, weak, weak

6/8 is a duple meter and is often conducted in a two-pattern wile 3/4 is triple meter and most often conducted in a three-pattern or in some cases a one-pattern.

This question sure confused me as a young kid, since, according to the math, they were equivalent. I wondered what, then, would dictate the choice of one versus the other.

Fortunately, I soon grasped that 6/8 was like 2/4 but with triplets, and I've continued to think of it that way.

You guys are obviously classical pianists and jazz/play by ear kind of pianists like me. I don't play with strict interpretations as the kind of music I play does not call for it. For all intents and purposes, the timing is exactly as I said. The accents maybe different, but that is another story.

Derick

"I like to be in America!
O.K. by me in America!
Ev'rything free in America
For a small fee in America!"

Hope that helps

-Michael B.

Here's an illustration. In the well-known song from West Side Story, "America," the refrain the feel of alternating measures of 6/8 and 3/4:

I like to be in A - me - ri - ca!
O. K. by me in A - me - ri - ca!
Ev' rything free in A - me - ri - ca!
For a small fee in A - me - ri - ca!

The 6/8 measures are first in each line, two groups of three syllables. The 3/4 measures are three groups of two: the last three syllables of "America" with the spaces between.

If I remember right, Bernstein didn't bother to change time signatures in the music, but simply grouped the notes differently.

paukenspieler

I disagree. I think it's the whole story, because it's the very thing that distinguishes the two time signatures from one another. They are not interchangeable.

I don't have the score for West Side Story, but I'd wager that Bernstein alternates between the two in the sample that PoStTeNeBrAsLuX provides to make explicit the change in rhythm.

If memory serves, another reasonably illustrative example would be 'Mercury' from Holst's The Planets...

EDIT: Looks like I beat the timpani-player to the famous Bernstein example by just a few minutes .

-Michael B.

6/8 and 3/4 are definitely not the same, as most people have pointed out. Yes they have the same duration in each measure/bar, but one is compound time, the other is not. One is *usually* played with 2 beats in a measure/bar, the other with 3. 9/8 is more equivalent to 3/4, from a musical point of view.

20th century composers sometimes write 3/4 / 6/8 as the time signature when they want to show that the impulse varies between 3 and 2 beats in a bar, with the same duration of each bar (that doesn't look great - should be 3/4 time signature, vertical slash, 6/8 time signature).

Listen to the last movement of Ginastera's suite from the ballet Estancia for another great example, or the last (I think) movement of his piano concerto - also available in a Keith Emerson version on ELP's Brain Salad Surgery, if you like that kind of thing.

This forum is such a great resource because each person has their own understanding and way of explaining things. When summed up it is probably all you ever want or need to know about a subject !

I'll have to take a look. It has been many years since I conducted the "Highlights From" medley, but that is my recollection. I believe 6/8 was indicated most of the time, but the notes were beamed in twos or threes as appropriate. The issue sticks in my mind because I was surprised to see it written that way, and had to make a decision about how I would conduct it.

I later saw that Bernstein himself conducted alternating measures of 6/8 and 3/4. It might be written that way in the original orchestration; I've never seen it.

By the way, Aaron Copland used the same metric structure in El Salon Mexico, but changed meter every bar...I do remember that!

paukenspieler

I read an exerpt from From Musikalisches Lexikon, by the 18th century musicologist, Heinrich Christoph Koch, which states:

"Six-eight meter. This term describes two species of meters which differ fundamentally from each other, namely: 1) the simple mixed meter which is created out of the two-four meter with a dot added to each quarter note and 2) the meter composed of two three-eight meters"

So the 6/8 meter that most of us think of - two beats of triplets - is a derivative of 2/4 (and accordingly, we only count two beats).

America is marked 6/8 (3/4), which is a traditional way of marking alternating time signatures. The accents are written out in the 3/4 measures.

Alejandro

Glad to have you with us.

There are several sections of Piano World. The one we are on at the moment, mostly discusses the differences in pianos.

There is another for Adult Beginners, where beginners and those coming back to piano playing participate. Another is called the Pianist Corner where a lot of piano players discuss mostly classical music; and still another for those Non Classical players.

You might want to look into those forums and use the search function above to give you HOURS of reading and learning.

As per your question. Certainly, time signatures do make interpretation of the composers thoughts helpful. I think of 3/4 as WALTZES. And 6/8 suggesting faster pieces. Mentioned above, the 6/8 is compound time. Meaning that it is written out to be easily read as 6 eighth notes, yet played with the feeling of faster triplets giving the MAIN beat as 1 - - 2 - - . 1, 2 counted fairly fast.

You may also note that in 3/4 that the eighth notes are grouped in twos; and in 6/8, the eighth notes are grouped in threes. Each showing their group beats. 6/8 really feels like 2 BEATS. Accent the first of the group of three 8th notes to achieve that affect.

As well as 6/8, other compound times are 9/8 and 12/8 (3 groups of 8th notes and 4 groups of 8th notes).

I hope this helps.

And try checking out the other pianists forums.

Happy playing, LL

I just looked at the orignal West Side Story score for In America - it does not change time, it's all 6/8ths.

Derick

I looked at it too. It is in 6/8 (3/4), as I said.