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Re: Buying a DP is more frustrating than buying a car [Re: 8 Octaves] #2467014 10/06/15 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by 8 Octaves
The only difference is that I already know what to buy and the price to pay, just waiting for my current DP to die. I hear it would eventually, something about the ROM fading away.


Hmm. It may not die. You might have to kill it.

If you'd rather be playing a different piano, why spend two years of your life in the hopes that ROM will fade? (Secret tip: It won't.) And you wouldn't have to worry about haggling so much if you sell your current DP for a couple of hundred while it's still working.


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Re: Buying a DP is more frustrating than buying a car [Re: ColoRodney] #2467057 10/06/15 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ColoRodney
If you'd rather be playing a different piano, why spend two years of your life in the hopes that ROM will fade? (Secret tip: It won't.) And you wouldn't have to worry about haggling so much if you sell your current DP for a couple of hundred while it's still working.


I'm not in a hurry. I would like to know exactly what to buy in case a replacement is necessary, so I do my research and try all the new stuff, which is a lot of fun, but I don't feel I need something better at the moment. I use my DP as a controller for Pianoteq these days, and the sound is fine. I think Pianoteq seriously extended the life of my DP. Once I began using Pianoteq, I try all these new DP's and they no longer impress me the way they used to when I was stuck on AWM stereo sampling from 1990.

Re: Buying a DP is more frustrating than buying a car [Re: MarkF786] #2468750 10/10/15 11:28 PM
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I've been away for a week, but thanks for all the good feedback. Over the past couple years I've been wanting to get a DP for two purposes: to start playing again myself (I stopped about 5 years ago), and to teach my young daughter to play (she's now seven). But in the meanwhile, there's many other things going on in life, and I've been more focused on playing guitar.

Anyway, two years ago I had one shop offer me a good price on an HP-505 (about 32% off with taxes & delivery), but I decided to wait since I thought a new model might be due out soon, and I prefer to buy at the beginning of a product's life. When the HP-504/506/508 models came out, I visited some dealers and none of them seemed willing to negotiate much, including the one that previously was offered a good deal. I tried again about a year later, still without much luck.

With the latest models being released, I was thinking of trying again, though hoping to be armed with some knowledge on prices.

What would I consider a fair price? From my experience buying other high-priced musical instruments, I would consider 40% off MSRP a good price. Throw in taxes and delivery, and it would be up around 30%. So I'd be happy with paying 30% off MSRP with tax and delivery included. Is that reasonable?

In the meanwhile, this week I scored a Roland C-230 classic keyboard with great organ and harpsichord sounds, so this will occupy me a while and can serve at least as a basic platform to get my daughter started on the basics.

Re: Buying a DP is more frustrating than buying a car [Re: MarkF786] #2468776 10/11/15 01:54 AM
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40% off list price would indeed be a good price. Good luck finding a dealer who will accept.

I expect 20% would be possible any time, and 30% quite possible. But 40% seems unlikely.

Re: Buying a DP is more frustrating than buying a car [Re: MarkF786] #2468780 10/11/15 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkF786
, I would consider 40% off MSRP a good price. Throw in taxes and delivery, and it would be up around 30%. So I'd be happy with paying 30% off MSRP with tax and delivery included. Is that reasonable?


No, it isn't! Nobody is gong to offer you 40% off on a new model - and especially not on Roland gear. You'd be lucky to get that on a superseded model. I think if you keep waiting for such an incredible bargain on a new model, you'll probably never get a piano. I can tell you that the profit margins on DPs are quite a bit lower than guitars, so don't compare the two. Just try to get a good deal, rather than an amazing one, and enjoy your new instrument! The sooner you start, the better for you and your daughter.

Re: Buying a DP is more frustrating than buying a car [Re: MarkF786] #2468784 10/11/15 02:42 AM
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What's this magical world where you can tell the retailer what to sell it to you for? Find the lowest prince on the internet and you'll have a good idea what sort of margin a local retailer is putting on things. Buy it online or pay the premium for getting it local. 5 mins with google and you can work out if you're being exploited or not.

Re: Buying a DP is more frustrating than buying a car [Re: MarkF786] #2468792 10/11/15 03:25 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkF786
I prefer to buy at the beginning of a product's life.

Then as in many retail markets - music technology being one of them - expect to pay very close to full retail. Early adopters get minimum concessions. And while you're at it, join the queue.

Re: Buying a DP is more frustrating than buying a car [Re: dire tonic] #2468793 10/11/15 03:34 AM
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This is a losing strategy, and poor advice.
Originally Posted by dire tonic
Originally Posted by MarkF786
I prefer to buy at the beginning of a product's life.

Then as in many retail markets - music technology being one of them - expect to pay very close to full retail. Early adopters get minimum concessions.
I would never expect to pay close to full retail. And never will.

Re: Buying a DP is more frustrating than buying a car [Re: MacMacMac] #2468797 10/11/15 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
This is a losing strategy, and poor advice.
Originally Posted by dire tonic
Originally Posted by MarkF786
I prefer to buy at the beginning of a product's life.

Then as in many retail markets - music technology being one of them - expect to pay very close to full retail. Early adopters get minimum concessions.
I would never expect to pay close to full retail. And never will.

Then you'll never buy at the beginning of a product's life.

Re: Buying a DP is more frustrating than buying a car [Re: MarkF786] #2468801 10/11/15 04:05 AM
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Not true. Wrong attitude.

Re: Buying a DP is more frustrating than buying a car [Re: MarkF786] #2468803 10/11/15 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkF786
Two years ago I had one shop offer me 32% off (with taxes & delivery), but I decided to wait since I thought a new model might be due out soon


1. I applaud you for waiting for the new model; I would never buy an older model that's on the brink of extinction.

2. For a new model which is in high demand, 25% off the street price is the best I've ever seen.

3. If you can receive 30% off the street price on a brand new, high-demand model in original packaging, then you are way ahead of the pack. Snap this up without hesitation.

4. If, by some confluence of miracles you're able to receive more than 30% off, then either (a) you've entered Nirvana and heavenly Bliss; or (b) your dealer is exceptionally eager to part with the model (perhaps because it has some prior history or issues ???); or (c) your dealer really, really likes you.


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Re: Buying a DP is more frustrating than buying a car [Re: MacMacMac] #2468804 10/11/15 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I expect 20% would be possible any time, and 30% quite possible. But 40% seems unlikely.


30% off is extremely rare for a high-demand, brand-new model in original packaging. However, such a bargain is possible if you're very skilled at dickering with your dealer.

It took me 3 months to find 25% off my model, and at no time either before or after have a seen a steeper discount on this particular model.


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Re: Buying a DP is more frustrating than buying a car [Re: MarkF786] #2468812 10/11/15 05:02 AM
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Brahms: I don't share the reluctance to buy an older model, so long as it's new and has a warranty. Especially in pianos, where the new model is just the old model with new trim, and a long list of marketing claims that defy belief.

Still, newer is good.

I agree that negotiating is a skill ... one that ought to be developed. It aint hard! It's just attitude, esp. the attitude that the seller has a greater need for my money than I do for his product.

I take issue with the tone of your last statement, though. "... seen a steeper discount". My point is that I don't see discounts. And I don't find discounts.

Rather, I make my own discount. The quoted or advertised price doesn't matter. My price ... my offer ... is what matters.

Re: Buying a DP is more frustrating than buying a car [Re: MacMacMac] #2468819 10/11/15 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
My point is that I don't see discounts. And I don't find discounts. Rather, I make my own discount. The quoted or advertised price doesn't matter. My price ... my offer ... is what matters.


That's cool, but isn't it easier to bargain with a dealer when the advertised discount (which is "seen" and "found") is already 25% off?

For example, if your goal is a 30% discount off street price, isn't it easier to dicker from 25%-off to 30%-off rather than from 0%-off to 30%-off?

Granted, if you're a highly skilled bargainer, then any advertised price would be less important.


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Re: Buying a DP is more frustrating than buying a car [Re: MarkF786] #2468820 10/11/15 06:17 AM
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I don't understand what difference it makes whether a product is advertised at 25% off. If I wish to pay 30% off, then that's my offer ... advertisement or not.

Re: Buying a DP is more frustrating than buying a car [Re: MacMacMac] #2468821 10/11/15 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I don't understand what difference it makes whether a product is advertised at 25% off. If I wish to pay 30% off, then that's my offer ... advertisement or not.

When did you last buy a DP?

Re: Buying a DP is more frustrating than buying a car [Re: MacMacMac] #2468895 10/11/15 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I don't understand what difference it makes whether a product is advertised at 25% off. If I wish to pay 30% off, then that's my offer ... advertisement or not.


Hmm. Please answer this hypothetical:

STORE A offers a $1000 DP at 29% off street price, whilst STORE B offers the same model at the $1000 street price without any advertised discount (0% off).

If your goal is to achieve a 30% discount, would you first shop at STORE A or STORE B, other things being equal?


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Re: Buying a DP is more frustrating than buying a car [Re: MarkF786] #2468957 10/11/15 01:40 PM
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Personally, I think there may be good reason to buy a recently discontinued model. I've often found the best deals - in many things - this way. It's important to know what the latest model has in comparison to the model it's replacing. Sometimes the difference is big enough to matter. Other times, it is often just some minor upgrades. Ya, you don't get to say you have the latest and greatest, but if it's new and you love it, what does that matter? And most likely you will get a great price for a new DP!


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Re: Buying a DP is more frustrating than buying a car [Re: Brahms88] #2468959 10/11/15 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Brahms88
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I don't understand what difference it makes whether a product is advertised at 25% off. If I wish to pay 30% off, then that's my offer ... advertisement or not.


Hmm. Please answer this hypothetical:

STORE A offers a $1000 DP at 29% off street price, whilst STORE B offers the same model at the $1000 street price without any advertised discount (0% off).

If your goal is to achieve a 30% discount, would you first shop at STORE A or STORE B, other things being equal?


I'd first go to store A and offer them 30% off. If they wouldn't take it then I'd got to store B and tell them stare A offered 29% off, but wouldn't do 30%, and I'd go with them if they'd give me 30%. smile


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Re: Buying a DP is more frustrating than buying a car [Re: Morodiene] #2468962 10/11/15 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by Brahms88
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I don't understand what difference it makes whether a product is advertised at 25% off. If I wish to pay 30% off, then that's my offer ... advertisement or not.


Hmm. Please answer this hypothetical:

STORE A offers a $1000 DP at 29% off street price, whilst STORE B offers the same model at the $1000 street price without any advertised discount (0% off).

If your goal is to achieve a 30% discount, would you first shop at STORE A or STORE B, other things being equal?


I'd first go to store A and offer them 30% off. If they wouldn't take it then I'd got to store B and tell them stare A offered 29% off, but wouldn't do 30%, and I'd go with them if they'd give me 30%. smile


Good answer. However, you'd face a quandary if STORE B said that it would match the 29%, but won't go to 30%.


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