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Does anyone own or have first-hand experience of either of these headphones?
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Joined: Oct 2014
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I have the 702 and absolutely love them. Very clean sound at any frequency with remarkable staging. Also they are very revealing and if you like detailed music representation they are definitely a good purchase.
I would not recommend them for a DP though: - Firstly they are good when sat on a couch with a good book but rather on the heavy side with their big cups, and a lot of the weight is distributed on the outside of the cups. At least for me it would create too much tension on the neck when used while sat at the piano. - On top of that they are probably too focused of a sound for my taste when sat at the piano. I prefer when the source is harder to identify which to me makes it more realistic when playing the piano. - Lastly since they are very revealing they may represent some sound artifacts (resonance, harmonics etc..) rather on the metallic side and detached from the rest of the sound. For DP I'd rather have something that blends the sound even if it colors the tone a little.
For the reasons above I prefer to use Grado's SR60 with my DP.
Cheers, C
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- thanks, Chewbacca. You've confirmed what I've been reading about them. My better half has finagled my Senn HD595 which also have a reputation for flatness and I think the these AKGs might be similar but will be a pleasant and perhaps interesting change. They're a similar weight and I'm not fearful of artifacts in the Garritan CFX sample, in fact I might welcome them. With the security of amazon's return policy I think I'm going to take a chance on these.
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Not much to add I had briefly the 702 to try and agree with Chewbacca in many ways.
In a nutshell expect moreforward treble over your senss, and less warm compared to the senns you are used to, that may or may not please you to begin with or get used to. AKG can be a bit on the cold side (IMO) , but they kick bud for a clear detailed sound and good sound stage.
Expect better control and damping over your senss ( though I never tried the 595 I am assuming they are similar enough to the 598 I own), in that sense you are looking at a better phone to what you had, for vocals I find, I notice less distortion in certain frequencies too, they can be wonderful for detailed listening vocals.
Personally I would not pick them for piano as such for a pleasurable sound when a piano is already on the brighter side, just my taste though. You may want to tame them a bit with EQ. Expect more of an an ear kicking compared to the senss signature you were used to which are laid back, they are more prone to fatique for most. I find that anyway.
Another way to look at them, There are phones that are bass heavy. In a sense the AKG are more on the other side of the spectrum being brighter and treble heavy.
More important for you to consider, these are phones that do benefit from a dedicated amp IMO, and it is not often I would subscribe to that making a marked difference unless you are talking really hard to drive phones in the sort of 150 OHm + range. with these I noticed how they are different when listening on my PC sound card, audio interface and headphone amp, more so than other phones in general considering the impedance is not that high, surprisingly, they need to be driven quite a bit compared to some before they start filling out. Makes sense in a way which is also why they are so clean and detailed at the same time, but they behave more like as if they were high impedance phones.
Last edited by Alexander Borro; 10/05/15 11:47 AM.
Selftaught since June 2014. Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various... Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos. 12x ABF recitals. My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
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- thanks AB. I'll take under advisement your observation about how they present an already-bright sound given that my aging lug'oles are probably in need of added stimulation in the high end anyway. I really like the fact that they don't overdo the bass end....and no vocals here......yet!!!
I've picked up mixed reports about their needing more power to drive them. Maybe the UR22 won't be enough. I don't want to start chucking more money on headphone amps or other extras so that might be a reason for sending them back.
If I buy them I'll report back.
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I bought them but disappointingly the UR22 doesn't have enough welly to drive them - as you intimated, AB. They're loud enough with the volume control on high-ish but they start to distort at the slightest push in level. Shame. I'm thinking now of changing interface for a mains powered model - the Audient iD14 looks promising but I'm wary of throwing good money after bad.
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Sorry to hear that Dire, I should probably have been more specific/forceful, I wasn't aware what the ur22 was exactly, then I looked it up and I could have told you that was likely going to be the result for that phone.
That ID14 may well do but note I can't find specs for it, what grunt does the headphone amp actually have, many amps you can find everything what is inside and specs for it, like the focurite stuff, or the tascam audio interface I own, the headphone specs are listed so you know what it will be capable of fairly well before even buying. I am a little suspicious of it since that ID14 is stil usb 2 powered as far as I can tell from a quick peep.
As it happens I bypass my headphone out on the AI setup with a dedicated solution for that I have the topping D3 at the moment which is powered independently, but I'd say personally not a good match for AKGs, a personal thing though, as they are already leaning on the brighter side and very analytical, so a good match for my senns in that regard. It is very personal though, so I am hesitant to say get A or B because of that, unlike the many headphones I had the privilege of trying out and quite happily state my views/opinions on them, that is not the case with the headphone amp solutions.
If you can and it's easy to try and return that ID14 go for it and see perhaps.
Last edited by Alexander Borro; 10/07/15 09:03 AM.
Selftaught since June 2014. Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various... Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos. 12x ABF recitals. My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
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I've just ordered the iD14 on 7 days approval. There's a gearslutz thread all about it here. It seems to have a good spec - a basic but well-endowed interface, specs here - something like 10x the power of the UR22 for headphones. I can already tell the 702s are bright so it'll be interesting to see how they perform with this unit. - it's mains powered, btw.
Last edited by dire tonic; 10/07/15 09:48 AM.
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Looks promising. I can see now why the headphone out can afford a bit more grunt noting that when using phantom power it does require extra power from a supply and overall it is fairly minimalist therefore being able to reserve a fair bit power draw for the headphones, looks like an interesting product to try. I only very quickly skimmed that thread or was it youtube someone saying that the output isn't overly bright by itself which could make it a nice overall package with AKG in the same way that my topping is nice with my sennheiser. Lets us know how it works out.
Last edited by Alexander Borro; 10/07/15 09:52 AM.
Selftaught since June 2014. Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various... Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos. 12x ABF recitals. My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
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I have also read plenty of times that Fiio headphone amps provide adequate power for the 702. Good thing is they don't come too expensive. I have the Alpen and it drives the 702 very well with no apparent distortion.
Curious to hear on your final thoughts as well.
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So far, so good. The iD14 is driving the K702s but only just - if I raise the gain beyond a 'comfortable listening' maximum then distortion creeps in. Beneath that it's as clean as a whistle. In an ideal world I'd like to have some headroom, to be able to take them to a notch above comfortable but I suppose I can treat the risk of distortion as a kind of safety device since there'll be no temptation to damage my ears. I'm assuming the distortion arises from the iD14 being at its limit to drive rather than the headphones being overdriven. At maximum comfortable listening the headphone gain is almost at max.
The clarity/purity is impressive with quite a bit of the CFX's detail in the top end more evident and the monitors sounding much better at higher level. Ivory sounds good but there's no revelation in the top-end I guess because Ivory doesn't deliver much high top-end anyway.
The UR22 has better latency than the iD14 with Cubase reporting UR22's best input/output latency (64 samples) both at 5 secs, the iD14 i/o both at 7.8 secs. I haven't fully understood why the iD14's latency is configured the way it is with two settings, the usual Asio buffer sample setting and a 'quality' rating running from minimum (fast) to extra safe (slow). With my laptop I've found the optimum to be 256 samples in combination with the 'low' setting (next best to 'minimum') giving i/o latency of 7.8/7.8 seconds. By comparison, the UR22 at 256 samples shows up in Cubase as 9.3/11.3 seconds.
As you surmised, AB, the mains adaptor is only required for phantom power so the headphone output is the same regardless of whether the adaptor is plugged in or not.
Chewbacca, I would have considered a headphone amp but couldn't think of a way of doing it neatly. I'm assuming I would have needed to split the UR22's line-out between the existing monitors and headphone amp. I've a horror of unnecessary cables etc.
I think I'm going to have to hang on to this package. Overall, the increase in latency isn't troubling me noticeably and the sound is 'improved' - it's very evident when going back to the senns that, although they are warmer, something is missing.
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Glad it worked out it sounds like for the most part. The UR22 does seem a bit limited with the options, for exactly that reason when I looked the audio interfaces I ended up getting something with a few additional outputs with that in mind, it can be very handy in situations such as you found yourself in when you want an extra set of speakers or a headphone amp. In my case I can do this on the tascam via rca, it also has a digital optical outs, which I can plug the headphone amp into optionally as well, bypassing the whole DAC in the IA and using it own setup entirely, not just the headphone amp in it. However the sennheiser 598 for example can be driven well enough by the IA headphone out when piano playing, so I don't clutter my desk with the headphone amp and wires most of the time. The amp is there for testing reasons and comparison of options when evaluating phones when I need it. I would agree the setup you have now should be more revealing /resolving so enjoy When it comes to pure listening enjoyment though, for me personally, I guess we are all different, I've really grown to like that butter smoothness and sort of unassuming laid back topend of the senns more, to me it sounds more natural and balanced to me with the few piano plugins I own. That said, I would really never class the 598/600/650 family as reference phones personally in the sense of them being revealing/detailed, at least compared to many others in that price range, more as the just nice to listen to types, a bit more in the Hifi category, a cuddly warm smoother sound my ears can easily digest. I always found the 702 AKG a little too bright/cold/clinical and in the face for me though, but, to each their own. I've tried quite few times now on and off going back to brighter clinical cans for piano plugins, and after a few days I return to the senns and say to myself, aahh that's better, I forgot how nice and balanced they are for my ears.
Last edited by Alexander Borro; 10/10/15 10:52 AM.
Selftaught since June 2014. Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various... Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos. 12x ABF recitals. My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
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