Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
New in our online store...
Tea Light
Tea Light with Frosted Music Staff Candle Holder


-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


Who's Online Now
54 registered members (AZNpiano, Candywoman, anotherscott, 14 invisible), 1,092 guests, and 7 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli #2466404
10/04/15 03:37 PM
10/04/15 03:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,129
Sofia, Bulgaria
C
CyberGene Offline OP
2000 Post Club Member
CyberGene  Offline OP
2000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,129
Sofia, Bulgaria
Or at least that's what you get when you order the number of contestants that have chosen the corresponding grand piano to play on in the ongoing International Chopin Piano Competition smile

Yamaha - 36
Steinway - 30
Kawai - 11
Fazioli - 1

laugh


Soundcloud Profile - solo piano compositions, arrangements, reharms
Currently: Kawai ES7 -> Garritan CFX
Previously: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: CyberGene] #2466410
10/04/15 03:56 PM
10/04/15 03:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,893
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rickster  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,893
Georgia, USA
Looks like Yamaha wins...

It's surprising the Fazioli came in last. From what I've read, I thought it was the best of the best of the best. I guess not. I suppose you can't always believe everything you read. smile

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: Rickster] #2466415
10/04/15 04:13 PM
10/04/15 04:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 453
Rockville, MD
Seeker Offline
Full Member
Seeker  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 453
Rockville, MD
Originally Posted by Rickster
Looks like Yamaha wins...

It's surprising the Fazioli came in last. From what I've read, I thought it was the best of the best of the best. I guess not. I suppose you can't always believe everything you read. smile

Rick


Fazioli can be superb. I've only played a few, and they've all been at least very good.

As to why folks would pick Yamaha or Steinway over Kawai and Fazioli?

In my experience (Shigeru)Kawai is a very different piano from the other three. (I have found Fazioli and Hamburg Steinway to be more similar to each other than Yamaha, but I have not yet played the latest incarnations of their concert grands and can't comment on those). The SK-7 I played in China is one of the best pianos I've ever played - but it was VERY different from the Hamburg Steinways and Yamahas I'd played on previous evenings, and took some adjusting on my part as well as the orchestras for performance.

...which brings me to my main point. I suspect that Yamaha and Steinway are the pianos on which the contestants have practiced the most. Given equally good feeling and sounding pianos, with the high stakes involved, I'd opt for the brand on which I was used to playing.


Andrew Kraus, Pianist
Educated Amateur Tuner/Technician
Rockville, MD USA
www.AndrewKraus.com
www.YouTube.com/RockvillePianoGuy
Twitter at @IAmAPianist

1929 Steinert 6'10" (Close copy of New York S&S "B")
Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: CyberGene] #2466424
10/04/15 04:49 PM
10/04/15 04:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,802
J
joe80 Offline
2000 Post Club Member
joe80  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,802
They're all pretty good pianos to be honest. The Yamaha CFX is a very comfortable and beautiful sounding piano to play, very clear and very fast.

Fazioli is one of the greatest but it's a bit of an acquired taste - it's a piano that people come to later in their careers, sort of like Blüthner and Bösendorfer in that respect.

At that level it's hard to pick a piano based on make, when they're all excellent, and you just have to pick the one you feel you identify with most.

(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: CyberGene] #2466427
10/04/15 05:17 PM
10/04/15 05:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,890
Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
K
Keith D Kerman Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Keith D Kerman  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,890
Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
Hmm.....I wonder if Steinway will change their "98% of concert pianists choose Steinway" sales pitch to " when given a choice at the international Chopin competition, most concert pianists choose something other than a Steinway" :P

Hehe.....just having some fun. Yamaha certainly gets bragging rights here, but who knows about these particular instruments without trying them out personally.

Of the 4 instruments, objectively, from the point of view of materials, fit and finish, workmanship etc the Fazioli is the best, but as this clearly demonstrates, materials, fit and finish and workmanship are only part of the story.

As has already been pointed out, competitors are most likely to choose the piano on which they feel most comfortable even if a different piano has more expressive capability etc


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales - vintage and used Steinway, Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
www.pianocraft.net
check out http://sitkadoc.com/
www.twitter.com/pianocraft https://www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460
Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: CyberGene] #2466434
10/04/15 05:40 PM
10/04/15 05:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 434
Montreal, Canada
G
guyl Offline
Full Member
guyl  Offline
Full Member
G
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 434
Montreal, Canada
Did they have to choose without having a chance to try them all out beforehand? If so then they would likely play it safe and go with something they're already familiar with.


What do snowflakes and Chickerings have in common? There are no two exactly alike!
Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: guyl] #2466438
10/04/15 05:48 PM
10/04/15 05:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,890
Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
K
Keith D Kerman Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Keith D Kerman  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,890
Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
Originally Posted by guyl
Did they have to choose without having a chance to try them all out beforehand? If so then they would likely play it safe and go with something they're already familiar with.


Contestants are given time to try each piano out before deciding.


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales - vintage and used Steinway, Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
www.pianocraft.net
check out http://sitkadoc.com/
www.twitter.com/pianocraft https://www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460
Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: Keith D Kerman] #2466439
10/04/15 05:48 PM
10/04/15 05:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 10,518
B
bennevis Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
bennevis  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 10,518
Many more pianists chose Fazioli in the previous Chopin Competition in 2010 than this year, and two of the finalists used Fazioli, including Daniil Trifonov (who went on to win the Artur Rubinstein competition playing Fazioli also).

But Yamaha has a much greater presence in the world's concert halls, therefore many more concert pianists - especially those from Asia (who make up a sizeable number of the competitors) - are familiar with the CFX than with Fazioli F278. I also wonder whether Yulianna Avdeeva's success in 2010 with the CFX may also have swayed competitors' decisions this year......... grin (though apparently Avdeeva has since preferred Steinway in her concerts).

BTW, all competitors are given just 15 minutes to try out all four pianos and make their decision.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: Rickster] #2466441
10/04/15 05:51 PM
10/04/15 05:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
O
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Olek  Offline
9000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
Originally Posted by Rickster
Looks like Yamaha wins...

It's surprising the Fazioli came in last. From what I've read, I thought it was the best of the best of the best. I guess not. I suppose you can't always believe everything you read. smile

Rick


Not for Chopin IMHO

Last edited by Olek; 10/04/15 05:52 PM.

Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: Keith D Kerman] #2466443
10/04/15 05:55 PM
10/04/15 05:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,047
Leicester, UK
M
Mark Polishook Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Mark Polishook  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,047
Leicester, UK
Originally Posted by Keith D Kerman
Hmm.....I wonder if Steinway will change their "98% of concert pianists choose Steinway" sales pitch to " when given a choice at the international Chopin competition, most concert pianists choose something other than a Steinway"


quote of the day smile

Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: CyberGene] #2466449
10/04/15 06:08 PM
10/04/15 06:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
O
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Olek  Offline
9000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
International competitions are not concerts

Also the population of pianist participating , many are used to Japanese pianos. Or will defend them for some reason.

THey may also have an easier action


Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: CyberGene] #2466456
10/04/15 06:30 PM
10/04/15 06:30 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,506
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
4000 Post Club Member
terminaldegree  Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,506
Georgia, USA
It's a pity we're so fixated on the brands, and don't take time to recognize the concert technicians who worked so hard to get the last 5% out of the instruments.

Also it is worth noting the variability of fine concert grands- I have never experienced a brand where I like 100% of their 9-footers I ever enounter (even when considering all new instruments).


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: terminaldegree] #2466460
10/04/15 06:44 PM
10/04/15 06:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,890
Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
K
Keith D Kerman Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Keith D Kerman  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,890
Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
It's a pity we're so fixated on the brands, and don't take time to recognize the concert technicians who worked so hard to get the last 5% out of the instruments.

I think it is fair to assume that these companies each did their best to make sure that these pianos were worked on by their best technicians. Of course, this may not actually be the case, but it is the Chopin competition........


Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Also it is worth noting the variability of fine concert grands- I have never experienced a brand where I like 100% of their 9-footers I ever enounter (even when considering all new instruments).


I have made this point repeatedly. There are some real dogs out there even among the tier 1 six figures and up group. Concert grands are so difficult.
In the case of the Chopin competition though, one would hope that each company sent what they considered their best.


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales - vintage and used Steinway, Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
www.pianocraft.net
check out http://sitkadoc.com/
www.twitter.com/pianocraft https://www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460
Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: CyberGene] #2466464
10/04/15 06:57 PM
10/04/15 06:57 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 23,544
New York City
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 23,544
New York City
I wonder if some of the competitors already have contracts with Yamaha or Steinway or...? My guess is that quite a few do.

Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: CyberGene] #2466469
10/04/15 07:09 PM
10/04/15 07:09 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,506
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
4000 Post Club Member
terminaldegree  Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,506
Georgia, USA
Right Keith, but I still want to know who did the concert prep.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: Keith D Kerman] #2466472
10/04/15 07:22 PM
10/04/15 07:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 10,518
B
bennevis Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
bennevis  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 10,518
There is no accounting for tastes, as a sage once said grin.

Concert pianists are as prone to whims and subliminal messages as anyone else. Let's not forget how, during last year's Rubinstein Competition, finalists defected en masse to Fazioli from Steinway, apparently because the rumor spread that the Fazioli (played by Maria Mazo, who always played Fazioli when given the choice) projected much more impressively than the Steinway in the previous round.

Needless to say, Fazioli swept the top 3 prizes (only one pianist in the finals stuck to Steinway....) - and all those three pianists had previously played Steinway in the earlier rounds. grin

What may, or may not happen this year in the Chopin Competition as the rounds progress is anyone's guess.........



"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: CyberGene] #2466489
10/04/15 08:06 PM
10/04/15 08:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,278
Seattle Area
M
Markarian Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Markarian  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,278
Seattle Area
Fazioli is the new kid on the block, relatively speaking. All things are NOT equal. Steinway has been marketing the heck out of their brand since before the Civil War. If you talked to a concert artist in the 1950s, would they have even heard of Kawai? Yamaha has been Asia's premier piano since WWII and cheaper for institutions to own, hence students get more practice thanin other countries. These figures are just a fascinating snapshot that reflects cultural biases and historical circumstances more than the actual preference or quality of the instruments themselves.


2012 NY Steinway Model B | Kawai MP11 | Nord Stage 3 Compact | Moog Sub 37 | Behringer DeepMind 12 | Sequential Circuits Prophet 6 | Korg Prologue
Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: CyberGene] #2466496
10/04/15 08:39 PM
10/04/15 08:39 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,506
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
4000 Post Club Member
terminaldegree  Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,506
Georgia, USA
I find some of these responses rather curious, as a pianist.

Unless there is some sort of pre-existing contractual obligation (or extreme closed-mindedness), any player who has spent so much time and effort preparing to enter and advance through the field of a world-class competition is going to choose the tool they feel will best allow them to express themselves at that moment, and nothing else.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: 8 Octaves] #2466527
10/05/15 12:35 AM
10/05/15 12:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 26,165
Oakland
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 26,165
Oakland
An action that is easier for one pianist may not be for another.


Semipro Tech
Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: BDB] #2466528
10/05/15 12:56 AM
10/05/15 12:56 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,616
USA
8
8 Octaves Offline

Gold Supporter until July 22 2015
8 Octaves  Offline

Gold Supporter until July 22 2015

8
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,616
USA
Originally Posted by BDB
An action that is easier for one pianist may not be for another.


The easiest action is the one you own. The second easiest is Steinway because we've all played on numerous Steinways. It's not even a choice. Even for a student, most recitals seem to be on Steinways. Lots of teachers have them too. It is the best known unknown of choices.

I disagree with the sentiment that the Japanese piano have easier action. In a competition, Steinway has the easiest action since it is the one everyone knows.

Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: 8 Octaves] #2466532
10/05/15 01:20 AM
10/05/15 01:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 26,165
Oakland
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 26,165
Oakland
No, the easiest action is the one I have regulated and voiced!


Semipro Tech
Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: BDB] #2466540
10/05/15 01:30 AM
10/05/15 01:30 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,616
USA
8
8 Octaves Offline

Gold Supporter until July 22 2015
8 Octaves  Offline

Gold Supporter until July 22 2015

8
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,616
USA
Originally Posted by BDB
No, the easiest action is the one I have regulated and voiced!


Touché!

Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: 8 Octaves] #2466553
10/05/15 02:15 AM
10/05/15 02:15 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,506
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
4000 Post Club Member
terminaldegree  Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,506
Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by 8 Octaves

The easiest action is the one you own. The second easiest is Steinway because we've all played on numerous Steinways. It's not even a choice. Even for a student, most recitals seem to be on Steinways. Lots of teachers have them too. It is the best known unknown of choices.
I disagree with the sentiment that the Japanese piano have easier action. In a competition, Steinway has the easiest action since it is the one everyone knows.


Although that might make sense on paper, I have to disagree with this statement based on the reality of having played hundreds of recitals all over this continent, and many of those on Steinways. I'm sure other professional pianists on the forum would be inclined to agree with me.

The easiest action is not always the one you own, because the best action 99% of pianists get to play is not on their home instrument - most of us have to make size and budgetary compromises with our practice pianos. It may be familiar, but that doesn't make it easy or great...

All Steinway actions are not the same. A model "D" feels nothing like a "B". An "A" feels nothing like an "M". A model "1098" doesn't feel like any grand. Even within the same model, you have to account for wear, design changes, and tech work. The 1967 "B" in my studio has a ton of lead in the keys. Even after rebuilding the rest of the action, it feels nothing like the excellent NY "B" actions that are being produced at the factory right now.

The action of the late 90's "D" in our concert hall (the best piano we have at the university) doesn't hold a candle to the Hamburg "D" that Sally Phillips takes care of at her university - not only minor design differences, but having a technician who literally tunes and tweaks a piano 5 days a week (using incredibly detailed techniques to refine regulation that not even the factory does) vs. a contract tech that can only service the piano once every week or two results in a truly "night and day" experience to an advanced player.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: CyberGene] #2466557
10/05/15 02:29 AM
10/05/15 02:29 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,365
Surrey, B.C.
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Norbert  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,365
Surrey, B.C.
The "choosing business" provides one of the most unreliable data for those seeking the right piano for themselves.

The reason for this is manifold: first of all we are usually talking about a 9' concert grands - not the entire line of what a makers offers. So if you are perhaps comparing smaller sizes between different makers,it's meaningless for your own purpose.

Secondly, from my experience, many of these "competitons" are quietly rigged by technicians who can decide which piano gets the most attention - and which not.

I'm not saying this happened in this case but I know of others where the techs were specifically 'told' by someone..

In Canada we have one famous concert-competition where this was going on, aptly described to me in person by the technician involved.

AS buyers and music lovers,we should not be influenced by any of this. Whoever famous chooses his car, means nothing to me making my own choice. [money aside... grin..]

Rather play the piano you are considering and compare it against as many others out there as can.

This is the 'real test' - and the only one that counts.

Norbert smile

Last edited by Norbert; 10/05/15 02:30 AM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: Norbert] #2466561
10/05/15 03:08 AM
10/05/15 03:08 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,959
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Rich Galassini Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Rich Galassini  Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,959
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Originally Posted by Norbert

The reason for this is manifold: first of all we are usually talking about a 9' concert grands - not the entire line of what a makers offers. So if you are perhaps comparing smaller sizes between different makers,it's meaningless for your own purpose.

Secondly, from my experience, many of these "competitons" are quietly rigged by technicians who can decide which piano gets the most attention - and which not.


Norbert,

I am sure that at lower levels this can happen, but at any high level competition I that I know of, when pianos arrive they also have their own technicians. Now if Manufacturer "A" has a tech. there for the duration for any work that is needed and manufacturer "B" pays someone to stop by a few times, that can make a huge difference.

But that is something completely different than what you inferred.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Subscribe to our YouTube channel for great content every week:
https://www.youtube.com/user/CunninghamPiano
Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: Seeker] #2466564
10/05/15 03:11 AM
10/05/15 03:11 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,959
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Rich Galassini Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Rich Galassini  Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,959
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Originally Posted by Seeker
I suspect that Yamaha and Steinway are the pianos on which the contestants have practiced the most. Given equally good feeling and sounding pianos, with the high stakes involved, I'd opt for the brand on which I was used to playing.


Great point Andrew!


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Subscribe to our YouTube channel for great content every week:
https://www.youtube.com/user/CunninghamPiano
Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: Rich Galassini] #2466632
10/05/15 09:20 AM
10/05/15 09:20 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,802
J
joe80 Offline
2000 Post Club Member
joe80  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,802
Originally Posted by Rich Galassini
Originally Posted by Seeker
I suspect that Yamaha and Steinway are the pianos on which the contestants have practiced the most. Given equally good feeling and sounding pianos, with the high stakes involved, I'd opt for the brand on which I was used to playing.


Great point Andrew!


Yes, especially as competition pianists - as excellent and experienced as they are - are not really in a position to try something unknown in these situations. It's not like turning up to a venue to play. Even when giving a recital in the Wigmore Hall in London one can afford to make the odd slip, but in a competition you really have to minimise the risk. The levels of technical perfection called for in a competition are un-naturally high, but it's kind of the most quantifiable thing a jury can latch on to - although it has to be said usually a great artistic player will have a great technique anyway.

I'm not convinced that the easiest action to play on is Steinway incidentally - the easiest action to play on takes in a whole host of factors - not least the hands of the pianist. Virtually every pianist in the world knows Yamaha, and knows that there is a certain familiarity in each piano when going from Yamaha to Yamaha - even in going from the C3 to the CFIIIS there is something shared between them that one doesn't tend to find in Steinways. Going from a Hamburg A to a Hamburg D can sometimes feel like a bit of a shock in my own experience. Everything about the D feels bigger, and from where the pianist is sitting, that includes the aural experience (I know it's a different matter actually inside the hall), that can feel overwhelming on some concert grands - but Yamaha seem to have a level of consistency there from the players point of view, and I'm not sure why that is.

Shigeru Kawai is an excellent piano and I've been lucky enough to perform on a few Shigeru EX pianos. For me though, they don't quite have enough guts in the tone to project to the back of a large hall, it kind of gets lost. Perhaps that was just the set up of the examples I played on (actually it could have been the same piano each time, I don't know where it was hired from).

I've only ever played one Fazioli in concert, and it wasn't very well set up, but I've played numerous examples in showrooms and peoples homes, and in conservatoire. Of course each time it was a beautiful experience, but there is a huge difference between how a piano behaves in a teaching room, and how the same maker's concert grand will behave in a recital or concert hall.

Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: terminaldegree] #2466690
10/05/15 12:20 PM
10/05/15 12:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,616
USA
8
8 Octaves Offline

Gold Supporter until July 22 2015
8 Octaves  Offline

Gold Supporter until July 22 2015

8
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,616
USA
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
The action of the late 90's "D" in our concert hall (the best piano we have at the university) doesn't hold a candle to the Hamburg "D" that Sally Phillips takes care of at her university - not only minor design differences, but having a technician who literally tunes and tweaks a piano 5 days a week (using incredibly detailed techniques to refine regulation that not even the factory does) vs. a contract tech that can only service the piano once every week or two results in a truly "night and day" experience to an advanced player.


I'm surprised you are bringing up all these different models, including the 1098. At a competition or major recital? Which major city would use that? At this level, international competitions, do you really expect anything other than a Hamburg D? Our concert hall in SF, while being in the west coast of the USA, has the Hamburg D. While pianists may play all sorts of pianos and do, from my perspective, for things that count, I always see and hear a Hamburg D. At the top tier, that's what you have. Personally I don't prefer Steinway over Yamaha necessarily, but I'm just stating the reality. If you're going to count every community college in the middle of nowhere, and every recital in the world, sure, it won't always be a Hamburg D. I'm pretty sure, whether it's the Chopin, the Rubinstein, the Tchaikovsky, Van Cliburn or whichever competition as this thread is focused, a Hamburg D would be available.

The question is, for these events, when I say Steinway, it is the Steinway Hamburg D, not the one at your concert hall, and it'll likely be accompanied by someone like a Stefan Knüpfer, so why would anyone choose a Yamaha CFX? That's the more interesting question, but nobody seem to be want to answer that question other than dismissal and punches below the belt. So far many seems to suggest well, Yamaha wins, but ok, maybe it's marketing. I'm not sure how Yamaha marketing is better than Steinway marketing. Maybe it's because competitors practice on Yamaha. Really, a CFX? International competitors have more experience on the CFX than on Hamburg D? I doubt it. You already said even two Steinways are not the same, so two different Yamaha especially C/CX from CF would not be the same at all, and I have first hand experience to know they are not. So why still choose the Yamaha CFX? Could it be that it's actually the better piano? Why is it so painfully hard to consider the obvious answer. Why immediately come up with a lot of excuses and beating around the bush when more competitors did not choose the German or Italian piano? Why the fixation in Europe being the best in 2015? Is that reality or just prejudice?

Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: CyberGene] #2466695
10/05/15 12:25 PM
10/05/15 12:25 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,506
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
4000 Post Club Member
terminaldegree  Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,506
Georgia, USA
I'm bringing up all these other models because your original statement (which I quoted), when taken at face value, seemed a little ridiculous. wink

Finding a new Hamburg D in a US concert hall is exceedingly rare.

Last edited by terminaldegree; 10/05/15 12:28 PM. Reason: added last sentence

Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli [Re: 8 Octaves] #2466696
10/05/15 12:27 PM
10/05/15 12:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,890
Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
K
Keith D Kerman Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Keith D Kerman  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,890
Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
Originally Posted by 8 Octaves
So why still choose the Yamaha? Could it be that it's actually the better piano? Why is it so painfully hard to consider the obvious answer. Why immediately come up with a lot of excuses and beating around the bush when more competitors did not choose the German or Italian piano? Why the fixation in Europe being the best in 2015? Is that reality or just prejudice?


I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it is the better piano, but I think it is fair to conclude that at this point in the competition, it is the specific piano that the largest number of contestants prefer over the other specific pianos at this competition.


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales - vintage and used Steinway, Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
www.pianocraft.net
check out http://sitkadoc.com/
www.twitter.com/pianocraft https://www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

New Topics - Multiple Forums
Kawai RX6 heavy action
by Radio.Octave. 06/23/18 03:50 PM
Accident-prone accidentals in printed music
by FrankCox. 06/23/18 02:01 PM
Reyburn Grand Cyberhammer
by Miguel Rey. 06/23/18 12:37 PM
Should I say goodbye?
by eyeluvlucy. 06/23/18 11:48 AM
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Steingraeber
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Forum Statistics
Forums40
Topics186,108
Posts2,726,956
Members90,435
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1