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Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: ando] #2461394 09/19/15 08:14 AM
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dire tonic Offline
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Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by Chewbacca
Where do all these wishes for a portable celviano hybrid come from? The action does not look portable in any way, volume is closer to the one of a real action than the one of Kawai's DP wooden action. Ditto for the hammer motion. Did you guys wish Yamaha produced a portable avantgrand as well?

Cheers,
C


Correct. I mentioned this above too, but nobody is taking any notice of it. You can't compare the MP11 to the action in the Celviano hybrid. The MP11 has wooden keys, yes, but it's still a compact, low-profile action. The Casio Hybrid action is very tall - anything but low profile. It doesn't fit the "slab" idea at all.

Does this look like it would fit in a stage piano casing?

I did take notice and agree it doesn't look like a contender for the slab market even though that high-domed action does remind me so much of the profile of the Wurlitzer 200a EP.

The thing about these heavy slabs which makes portability a non-issue for me is more about their simple and immediate manoeuvrability. I've rarely spent more than two or three years in the same place and I find the prospect of moving something like the VPC1 - two lifters essential - much less of a grind than having to disassemble a console with it's speakers, wires, panels and cosmetically vulnerable exterior etc.

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Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: dire tonic] #2461396 09/19/15 08:25 AM
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TonyB Offline
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Originally Posted by dire tonic
Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by Chewbacca
Where do all these wishes for a portable celviano hybrid come from? The action does not look portable in any way, volume is closer to the one of a real action than the one of Kawai's DP wooden action. Ditto for the hammer motion. Did you guys wish Yamaha produced a portable avantgrand as well?

Cheers,
C


Correct. I mentioned this above too, but nobody is taking any notice of it. You can't compare the MP11 to the action in the Celviano hybrid. The MP11 has wooden keys, yes, but it's still a compact, low-profile action. The Casio Hybrid action is very tall - anything but low profile. It doesn't fit the "slab" idea at all.

Does this look like it would fit in a stage piano casing?

I did take notice and agree it doesn't look like a contender for the slab market even though that high-domed action does remind me so much of the profile of the Wurlitzer 200a EP.

The thing about these heavy slabs which makes portability a non-issue for me is more about their simple and immediate manoeuvrability. I've rarely spent more than two or three years in the same place and I find the prospect of moving something like the VPC1 - two lifters essential - much less of a grind than having to disassemble a console with it's speakers, wires, panels and cosmetically vulnerable exterior etc.


This is a really good point. Much of my life I was moving at regular intervals too. I have been settled down in one place now for some time and was finally able to purchase a larger instrument as a result. It is good to remember that we are all in different circumstances at various points in our lives and our individual needs will reflect that. Fortunately, you have some really decent choices these days in more portable instruments as you mention.

Tony


Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2461922 09/21/15 11:52 AM
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MRC Offline
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Simone Dinnerstein said she had "a lot of fun playing this awesome piano" at the Casio Grand Hybrid launch at the Lincoln Center. Somebody commented "...and you truly made it sing..."

Simone Dinnerstein Facebook

Can anybody find a recording of this event?


Steinway A grand (1919), Richard Lipp grand (1913), Yamaha P2 upright (1983), Casio PX-150 digital (2013)
Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2461924 09/21/15 12:03 PM
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Pete14 Offline
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She has also "reviewed" the AvantGrand, and claimed it was uncanny how close it came to the real thing.

"A lot of fun..." doesn't seem too flattering compared to "uncanny," but I guess it's all about perception and interpretation. I'm hoping she says something like "the best digital hybrid ever built!" But then that might seem a little heavy on the hyperbole.

Something between "Lotta fun and uncanny" would probably hit the spot. grin

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2461929 09/21/15 12:18 PM
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bnolsen Offline
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Why didn't she analyze the crap out of it? She's no fun.

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: bnolsen] #2461944 09/21/15 01:00 PM
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ando Offline
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Originally Posted by bnolsen
Why didn't she analyze the crap out of it? She's no fun.


Paid appearance - no chance of an actual review. I literally take nothing from famous pianists doing reviews on DPs. It's all marketing baloney. Only trying it yourself will give you the real answer - although reviews from PW members are certainly interesting and useful to read.

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2461957 09/21/15 02:08 PM
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siros Offline
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I just found out that the distributor here will have GP-300 and AP-700 on show in an event this week. But I will be out of town. frown

GP-300 sale price is roughly the same price as Yamaha CLP 545 here.
Quite a competitive price.

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: MRC] #2461976 09/21/15 03:45 PM
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PianoWorksATL Offline
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Quote
Simone Dinnerstein said she "had a lot of fun performing on this awesome piano at the Casio's launch last night in Lincoln Center!"

Originally Posted by Pete14
Something between "Lotta fun and uncanny" would probably hit the spot. grin

How about "performing...in the Lincoln Center" or "awesome piano"? I know the AG's cost more, but is there actually a reason to marginalize her comments?

Last week, we had a piano teacher workshop where one of Alfred Publishing's clinicians instructed a room full of local piano teachers. Afterward, we asked her to try the new GP-300. We had to adjust the sensitivity settings a little for her, but afterward she stated that not only did she like it, she liked it better than her own AG. I didn't even know she had an AG.

If I were a consumer, I'd be celebrating competition for the AG


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Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2461991 09/21/15 04:45 PM
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kippesc Offline
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Here's a Dinnerstein review of a variety of digitals. Various Yamahas (including AGs), some Rolands, a Kawai, a Casio.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323605404578384472502632956

This article pre-dates the new Celviano, of course. But she makes some interesting observations about what she likes and dislikes about some digital pianos.

Last edited by kippesc; 09/21/15 04:56 PM.

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Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2462313 09/22/15 04:07 PM
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bnolsen Offline
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More video links to dump:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2vYljohg44
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnD7z5a2pz8

More a jazz player. Likely another paid performance.

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2463330 09/25/15 05:21 AM
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zig Offline
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For the record what Simone Dinnerstein said was


"The Celviano Grand Hybrid is a unique instrument where the tactile and tonal experience of playing on a variety of fine acoustic pianos has been simulated using great care and imagination. I would be excited to have one in my own home."

www.casio.com new 9/16 press release

Last edited by zig; 09/25/15 05:22 AM.
Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2463340 09/25/15 06:32 AM
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augustm Offline
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I was traveling in the UK this week and went to a shop
with Yamaha CLP 585 and Roland LX17. The dealer told me
not to waste my time and come back next week for the
Casio...

The dealer who has played on it says they are incomparable.

So a true neutral opinion -- he could have pushed the
others just as easily.

The LX17 is very different from the LX15. Very much
less boomy and base heavy;
the mechanics seemed much more main-line.
The LX15 I tried had a very slow bouncy return for notes -- which I never liked.



More Geese than Swans now live, more Fools than Wise.
Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: zig] #2463343 09/25/15 06:46 AM
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Pete14 Offline
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Originally Posted by zig
For the record what Simone Dinnerstein said was


"The Celviano Grand Hybrid is a unique instrument where the tactile and tonal experience of playing on a variety of fine acoustic pianos has been simulated using great care and imagination. I would be excited to have one in my own home."

www.casio.com new 9/16 press release


This ia a paid for/by; however, the dealer's statement (to augustm) does resonate: 'Don't waste your time on.... wait for the Celviano.'

I don't believe that Bechstein would allow for the use of their brand-name if they did not believe in this instrument. Casio will indeed shake the foundation, re-arrange expectations, and provide an -otherwise unheard of- alternative to the overpriced -RYK- status quo.

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: augustm] #2463386 09/25/15 10:36 AM
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hughconway Offline
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Originally Posted by augustm
The dealer who has played on it says they are incomparable.

So a true neutral opinion -- he could have pushed the
others just as easily.



A dealer opinion is highly unlikely to be entirely neutral as they are often driven by the brand offering the highest margin.

You may be right, they may honestly feel that the Celviano is the best DP on the market right now.

On the other hand, Casio may simply offer a higher return on investment for the dealer.

Unless a dealer tells you their margins on each product you are trying, I would always treat their recommendations with a pinch of salt!

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Pete14] #2463392 09/25/15 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
[quote=zig]I don't believe that Bechstein would allow for the use of their brand-name if they did not believe in this instrument.


Bechstein are a company with a requirement to make profit. Whilst they would be unlikely to associate with a product which detracts from their brand, as long as it is neutral they will likely be happy to take money from Casio to provide an endorsement.

Also, this gives Bechstein free advertising for DP customers looking to progress to acoustic instruments. People tend to stick with brands they know. If they have a Casio DP with a Bechstein badge then they will naturally seek out Bechstein if they are looking for an AP. Bechstein know this and will have factored it into their calculations about whether associating with Casio is a good move...

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2463429 09/25/15 12:09 PM
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minh Offline
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Maybe I completely overlooked it somehow, but what are the MSRP and street prices of the GP-300 and GP-500 in the US? Thanks!

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2463499 09/25/15 04:00 PM
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MovingKeys Offline
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Is this what everyone here is assuming it's supposed to be competing with?


Last edited by MovingKeys; 09/25/15 04:01 PM.
Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2463502 09/25/15 04:10 PM
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MovingKeys Offline
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The actions between the two models are very different. One has a real acoustic action mechanism and the other has a simulated one.

[Linked Image]

Looks like the AG also uses two optical sensors in its system instead of standard TFT style strips; one below every key that is a continuous optical sensor and another at the hammer knuckle. Seems to be the same tech Yamaha puts in their Silent and Disklavier pianos.

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2463519 09/25/15 05:11 PM
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bnolsen Offline
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That it's actually a real action out of a piano may not really matter that much. Mechanical systems can be reduced to a system of levers, springs, pulleys, weights, etc. An advantage the DP action manufacturers have are that there are so many different grand actions already out there, so they just need to make one that is comparable, not exact.

No matter what any action manufacturer (whether DP or acoustic) is going to have its haters, It just seems to be the nature of the beast. I personally don't think yamaha's grand actions are *all that*. They are reasonable, however.

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2463540 09/25/15 06:47 PM
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