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Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: augustm] #2458527
09/10/15 10:51 AM
09/10/15 10:51 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,385
Vught, The Netherlands
Dave Horne Offline
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Originally Posted by augustm
There is the N1 keyboard too -- which is based on a small Yamaha grand (which?)

http://www.musikland-online.de/pix/download/yanhy932852/N1_tastatur.jpg


here, the pivot is slightly further back than the casio,
but the N1 is not a Steinway either. The N1 is the obvious target.


I believe the N series uses the modified action of a six footer ... or slightly smaller.


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Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: augustm] #2458680
09/10/15 07:49 PM
09/10/15 07:49 PM
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36251 Offline
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Originally Posted by augustm
There is the N1 keyboard too -- which is based on a small Yamaha grand (which?)

http://www.musikland-online.de/pix/download/yanhy932852/N1_tastatur.jpg


here, the pivot is slightly further back than the casio,
but the N1 is not a Steinway either. The N1 is the obvious target.
That would be the same action for the whole AG series (N1, N2, N3.)

I believe I heard the action is from a C3 (?)

Last edited by 36251; 09/10/15 07:50 PM.

AG N2 | CP4 | SSv3 | GK MK & MP
Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2458753
09/11/15 05:39 AM
09/11/15 05:39 AM
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It's from a C1.


Yamaha C3X-SH. Pianoteq V5. Steinberg U22 USB.
Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: fntms] #2458757
09/11/15 06:11 AM
09/11/15 06:11 AM
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Vught, The Netherlands
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Originally Posted by fntms
It's from a C1.


If that's the case, it's 5'3".


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Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2458766
09/11/15 06:56 AM
09/11/15 06:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
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Suffolk, United Kingdom
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EssBrace Online content
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I was told the AG action is from a C3 also. Told by the seller I admit - but an extremely reputable and, it seemed to me, knowledgable one.


Roland RD-1000 | Nord Piano 3 | Dexibell Vivo P7
Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2458802
09/11/15 08:56 AM
09/11/15 08:56 AM
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Most seem to believe it's the action of a baby grand, but I'm not sure that anyone has actually compared these side by side to really know for sure. It certainly is not at concert-grand length, and now I'm starting to accept that an action at this level for a digital might never be feasible. The only two digitals that I know of, that seemed to use a concert-grand actions, were the Ceus Master (Bosendorfer), and the Alpha piano. I don't think any of these made it into production, perhaps because they're too expensive to build.

There was a recent Italian-made piano, now that I remember, that looked like a wooden-grill. This instrument supposedly used a concert-grand action. I have no idea what happened with that.

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: EssBrace] #2458803
09/11/15 08:56 AM
09/11/15 08:56 AM
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Posts: 129
Madrid (Spain)
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More sound demostration. Is the air system completely modelled?

Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid (NEW)



Kawai CA97
Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2458806
09/11/15 09:03 AM
09/11/15 09:03 AM
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I believe he says "the noise" (referring to the dampers) is physically modeled. I'm curious as to whether the damper resonance -not just the noise- is also modeled.

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Brometeo] #2458867
09/11/15 11:49 AM
09/11/15 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Brometeo
More sound demostration. Is the air system completely modelled?

Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid (NEW)



It sounds VERY good

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2458899
09/11/15 02:18 PM
09/11/15 02:18 PM
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Germany
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Germany
This is going to be an exciting September, for sure. I wonder how fast this will show up here in stores...


Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)
Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2458924
09/11/15 04:08 PM
09/11/15 04:08 PM
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Twin Cities
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Weeelll, here is the thing about keyboard actions... I think whatever we get used to is what we tend to prefer. My V-Grand has some form of PHA-III action. Some like it, some don't as with any keyboard action - even an acoustic (read the "piano" forum to find that out pretty quickly). When I have played acoustic (upright, not grand) pianos or even other digital pianos, I like mine better. I suspect that if I had, say a Clavinova or a Kawai of similar quality, I would prefer that keyboard instead. I suspect that those who have indicated that we can get used to a variety of keybeds even across the digital/acoustic "line" within a short period of time, are probably correct. It would not be good for a person to buy a piano, whether digital or acoustic, and not like the action. That purchase would probably not get played much, which would be a sad thing. So I suppose the more choices there are in keyboard "feel", the better chance a person will find something s/he will like.

Tony


Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2458930
09/11/15 04:20 PM
09/11/15 04:20 PM
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Posts: 3,597
Atlanta, GA
PianoWorksATL Online content
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A GP-300 arrived today! We just finished assembling it, and I'm excited to share it. Anyone in the Atlanta area is welcome to come try ours and give their own review!


Sam Bennett
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Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: PianoWorksATL] #2459052
09/12/15 04:25 AM
09/12/15 04:25 AM
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Poland
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Originally Posted by PianoWorksATL
A GP-300 arrived today! We just finished assembling it, and I'm excited to share it. Anyone in the Atlanta area is welcome to come try ours and give their own review!


Please, do a high quality recording ASAP. And if you could play something more complex than few keays here and there it would be great! Something for wh at those pianos were made - a bit of classical. yippie

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2459090
09/12/15 08:43 AM
09/12/15 08:43 AM
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Virginia
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Virginia
Please Play Moonlight Sonata so we can compare it to David's video of the CA97. Let's hear how well the piano sustains.


Kawai MP11 (v1), iMac 2017, Yamaha HS8's, Sennheiser 650, Focusrite 2i4, Pianoteq 5, Steinway Model A, Mason and Hamlin Model AA
Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2459360
09/13/15 05:50 AM
09/13/15 05:50 AM
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France
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Mike could you tell us a bit more about those features : "Open String Resonance" and "Aliquot Resonance" ?
It is the only real difference in sound between the 300 and the 500 (I think that pedal and key noise will not convince anyone about buying a more expensive piano), and it is not clear to me what they are. There is no modelled resonance of open strings at all on the 300 ? Or simply this parameter is not adjustable ?

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2459364
09/13/15 06:01 AM
09/13/15 06:01 AM
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France
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I would like to know the difference between the String Resonance (a feature of both GP300 and GP500) and the Open String resonance (only the GP500).

According to the Casio specifications, the added features of the GP500 are :
Open String resonance
Aliquot resonance
Pedal action noise
Key on action noise
Key off action noise
And more sounds (35 instead of 26).

Last edited by Frédéric L; 09/13/15 06:03 AM.

Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2459383
09/13/15 08:46 AM
09/13/15 08:46 AM
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North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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These specs are way down at the noise level ... as in not relevant.

Pedal noise, key-on noise, and key-off noise specs are just crap. The keys and pedals make noise even without these "features"!

The only spec listed above that might mean anything is the open-string resonance. And that can only be judged by trying the piano.

Summary: Quit looking at the specs. A piano means something when you play it and/or listen to it. Specs on paper mean nothing. Nothing at all.

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2459390
09/13/15 09:18 AM
09/13/15 09:18 AM
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Melbourne, Australia
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What are they talking about with "open string resonance" anyway?

The usual terminology is:
Damper resonance: when all strings are subject to resonance because the dampers are up.
String resonance: only notes being held down are subject to resonance.

Now there's Open String Resonance - what does that mean?

Surely the GP300 has Damper and String resonance - even some of the Privias and normal Celvianos have that.

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2459394
09/13/15 09:23 AM
09/13/15 09:23 AM
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Germany
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Hendrik42 Offline
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Maybe they mean "open lid string resonance"?


Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)
Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: MacMacMac] #2459398
09/13/15 09:48 AM
09/13/15 09:48 AM
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Hernando, MS
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
These specs are way down at the noise level ... as in not relevant.

Pedal noise, key-on noise, and key-off noise specs are just crap. The keys and pedals make noise even without these "features"!

The only spec listed above that might mean anything is the open-string resonance. And that can only be judged by trying the piano.

Summary: Quit looking at the specs. A piano means something when you play it and/or listen to it. Specs on paper mean nothing. Nothing at all.


It seems to me that those features can be important if you're recording from a line out or directly to a USB fob. Some people feel that adding in those "imperfections" (like pedal noise) of an actual acoustic instrument makes the resulting digital recording sound more organic and realistic.


Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800
Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: ando] #2459402
09/13/15 10:02 AM
09/13/15 10:02 AM
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uk south
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Originally Posted by ando
What are they talking about with "open string resonance" anyway?

The usual terminology is:
Damper resonance: when all strings are subject to resonance because the dampers are up.
String resonance: only notes being held down are subject to resonance.

Now there's Open String Resonance - what does that mean?

Surely the GP300 has Damper and String resonance - even some of the Privias and normal Celvianos have that.

Total guess, but I'd expect 'open string resonance' to be what you're calling 'String resonance' - only those notes being held...

That little release sound you get when hitting the sustain and nothing else going on - which I quite like in small doses - I think should be renamed. 'Global' res. or just 'harp' would seem to fit.

I think it really can help, using these extraneous mechanical noises, to put some air round the recorded sound though I'm not so happy with key noise if it's too thunky, nor pedal noise if it's just mimicking a brutal press of the foot.

.... what I'd like most of all is a convincing 'early reflection' processing effect. Almost all the acoustic piano recordings we hear in the various forum recitals have a very characteristic room sound. Not the same as reverb.

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: dire tonic] #2459404
09/13/15 10:07 AM
09/13/15 10:07 AM
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Between Chicago and NJ, USA
Mike_Martin Offline OP
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Originally Posted by dire tonic

Total guess, but I'd expect 'open string resonance' to be what you're calling 'String resonance' - only those notes being held etc.


String Resonance is the sympathetic resonance occurring between held notes.

Open String Resonance is the sympathetic resonance that occurs only from the undampered strings in the very top register of the piano.

Last edited by Mike_Martin; 09/13/15 10:08 AM.

-Mike Martin
Casio America

Casio Music Forums
Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2459406
09/13/15 10:10 AM
09/13/15 10:10 AM
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dire tonic Offline
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Originally Posted by Mike_Martin
Originally Posted by dire tonic

Total guess, but I'd expect 'open string resonance' to be what you're calling 'String resonance' - only those notes being held etc.


String Resonance is the sympathetic resonance occurring between held notes.

Open String Resonance is the sympathetic resonance that occurs only from the undampered strings in the very top register of the piano.


- ah, ok. So 'open string resonance' is always on but at a controllable level starting at zero?

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: dire tonic] #2459407
09/13/15 10:11 AM
09/13/15 10:11 AM
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Mike_Martin Offline OP
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Originally Posted by dire tonic

- ah, ok. So 'open string resonance' is always on but at a controllable level?


All of these parameters are part of Casio's "Acoustic Simulator" can be adjusted.


-Mike Martin
Casio America

Casio Music Forums
Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: ando] #2459408
09/13/15 10:11 AM
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Open string resonance is the constant resonance from the upper strings, which have no dampers.

Edit: woops, Mike just beat me to it.

Last edited by proteal; 09/13/15 10:13 AM.
Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: proteal] #2459411
09/13/15 10:14 AM
09/13/15 10:14 AM
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dire tonic Offline
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Originally Posted by proteal
Open string resonance is the constant resonance from the upper strings, which have no dampers.

Edit: woops, Mike just beat me to it.

Is that a recognised universal definition? One which applies to all manufacturers?

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: dire tonic] #2459413
09/13/15 10:18 AM
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I don't recall hearing it before Casio's usage here.

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2459414
09/13/15 10:20 AM
09/13/15 10:20 AM
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dire tonic Offline
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We need a faq.

Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: dire tonic] #2459458
09/13/15 12:31 PM
09/13/15 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by dire tonic
We need a faq.


nah, we just need some reliable and trustworthy people from these forums to play this new digital and give us their opinion.

One thing I know for certain. As long as casio or any digital piano manufacturer keeps 100% control over their internal firmware external software pianos will always provide superior reproduction. Even if the hybrid grand firmware is very good the next release of pianoteq, ivory, etc will kill it.

Action is of utmost importance, having the proper connectivity to use a VST is second. Not saying that good internal sounds isn't important.

People should be pleasantly surprised if the line-out can be used for recording. However I don't see people discarding VSTs for arranging digital recordings any time soon.

Last edited by bnolsen; 09/13/15 12:34 PM.
Re: Casio Celviano Grand Hybrid Announced [Re: Mike_Martin] #2459509
09/13/15 04:41 PM
09/13/15 04:41 PM
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I tried the GP-300 at the exhibition in Moscow, and my conclusions:
1. Keyboard gorgeous, she is able to "forgive" error during the game, as the acoustic piano. It's incredible! Try to play scales on acoustics, GP-300 and another digital piano. I tried.
2. It seemed to me that the samples are very short in the middle and top of the keyboard. In acoustics, they are longer and have roland and kawai - too. Perhaps it seemed to me just because of the noise at the exhibition.

Photo from exhibition - http://forum.ixbt.com/post.cgi?id=attach:90:3416:4882:2.jpg


DP: Korg Sp-250,Pianoteq 5.x, TruePianos 1.9x;
Grand piano: Blutner, Muhlbach, Yamaha, iRig Pro;
Upright: Kalujanka;
English (with some problems)
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