Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Bach Partita #2 Caprice - Quite Difficult!

Well that is good to know. I still don't totally get why this piece is so difficult - it really looks innocuous on paper. But at least it's worth the effort!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_J2o5t87Lk

Don't try to catch up Argerich like him. It does not sound good under incorrect hands.

Yep, pretty soulless, I agree, albeit remarkably proficient mechanically speaking.

"Some" Chinese pianists ??

Apparently no one told the kid that the piece is difficult.

As -apparently- no one told Argerich that Gaspard was supposed to be difficult.

The anecdote with her teacher Friedrich Gulda is part of Argerich lore, yet I find it odd that when he assigned her Gaspard, Martha had no previous knowledge of its legendary difficulties.

She certainly spent some time learning Rachmaninov 3 (though it was more of a musical polishing, not technical), and reportedly the Strauss Burleske was a challenge, though one wouldn't know it from the video. At any rate, she seems not to have played it since her note-perfect performance with Abbado.

I have read through the Strauss. It is unbelievably awkward -that could be an understatement- but IMO it is a great piece of music, especially considering Strauss was only 19 at the time, and he performed the first run-through.

Sorry for OT!

Yeah, it's pretty amazing, even without repeats!

OK, last one I promise!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSlHXU-DyOA&feature=youtu.be

This is significantly faster: quarter note = 120, give or take. Getting close to Martha speed - she's around 126-128. Unlike some pieces, this one doesn't get easier when you speed it up, which is why I totally ballsed up bars 12 thru 14. However, I did try to incorporate some of y'all's suggestions and also played the correct notes in the LH scale passages on page 1.

I don't want to take it at this speed in performance, though I suppose I could be persuaded to if people like the tempo. So, anyone?

Thanks again for all the excellent feedback. I love this forum!!

I'd stick with the tempo in Take 2. You have better control - and the playing is much more musical. Forget Martha and enjoy being Simon !!

At some point you're going to memorize this - correct?? That may help improve accuracy.

You've inspired me to buckle down and learn this one myself. I doubt I'll play it as well as you - but the doggone thing sounds and looks like so much fun !!

OMG it is! SO much fun. OK, so there's music that's easy to learn because you can get it to concert speed/standard fairly quickly (random examples L'Ilse joyeuse, Brahms Op. 117), then there's music that's hard and tedious to learn (e.g. Beethoven late sonatas, lots of Schumann, Mendelssohn, most contemporary composers). Then there's pieces like this and late Chopin and even Prokofiev and Messiaen, where the music just glows with color whatever speed you're practicing at and where you feel physically in touch with the music with the feel of every note. Learn this piece. It will bring you great joy.

I pretty much have memorized this. However, I don't know how confident I would be walking out and playing it to a serious audence. It's not "quite" difficult, it's really really difficult.

Thank you so much for your comments.

I listened to this after a couple of glasses of wine and liked it. Difficulty not an issue because of the tempi, but it is almost hypnotic. Quite beautiful in fact.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_Nto_-j5Ao&feature=youtu.be

All good. I could get philosophical on texts, discourse, semiotics, and structure, but for me clean and pure is the perpetual pardigm. I think your point about performers sharing in the process of creative "solution" of art is spectacularly on point. For the Caprice, I've been working from a facsimile of the manuscript; there's enough there to justify all manner of edifying interpretations, but also enough to invalidate an equal number of bad ones. I've posted 3 versions of this piece, all quite different, but I think they each have a valid story to tell because I've taken the trouble to do the groundwork and examine sources.

Keep it up with the "open to interpretation" thing. I love that.

Beautiful indeed - even without the libations !! Here's another....this time on harpsichord...which seems to lend itself to a faster tempo.
https://youtu.be/R_R0qCUE3l0

Gorgeous! I do think pulling out all the stops (literally) for the Capriccio is overkill - that movement would be more effective with a lighter texture IMO - but the performance is quite wonderful. Thanks for sharing it Carey.

This entire Partita is well beyond me for the time being, but I would love to learn just the opening Sinfonia someday. How difficult is it if one doesn't take the fugal section too fast? In my opinion, most pianists, especially Argerich, play it too fast and turn it into an etude!

There's a couple tricky left hand parts towards the end of the first movement but its not that bad.

Well, I just wrote the fingering in for about 40% of the notes - which is par for the course for me with Bach. And I'm sure I'll be making some adjustments once I put the hands together. You're correct - it isn't as easy as it initially appears !!

But it's worth it, right? Great decision to learn this piece.

SiFi, you are a really fast learner. I’m impressed. If you did that just in a few days I can’t imagine what you could do over a longer time period!!

About bar 38: I'm sorry if I am so persistent about this, and I know it is in the manuscript, but before taking your last decision you may consider the false relation that produces in the other voice. In my ears that sounds quite bad, and if you really want to listen to the evidence play it in a distance of a third between the two voices instead of the two octaves separation that is written.



The other reason is because in every recording I’ve heard it’s been played this way and it’s more familiar to me.

But I don’t have any more reasons, and I don’t know if they are really convincing, but I’m curious what the other member who also play this partita think about and how they addressed it.

Anyway, great job.

I hear you on the false relations, but, JSB is full of them. And if you want an absolute doozy, look no further than the penultimate bar of the Sarabande, where the cross relation is perhaps the least startling harmonic event within the extraordinary segment. So I'm going Ur on this. No offense . . .

At the speed the OP is playing it at and that Chinese kid and several others it’s fairly straight forward maybe even grade 8 level, but at faster speeds it’s very tricky indeed even for acclaimed professional pianists and takes months to prepare correctly.