Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Fascinating Discussion of the History of ET.

I did say reliable history. What were the wandervogel experiences of Hipkins, Bechstein, Blüthner, in Europe and the Steinway sons on the east coast of America and Europe between 1840's and 1853 that led to the simultaneous revolution in piano design. What were the mathematics behind thee scale designs based on and for how long had they been designing along these principles? What was the prevailing temperament at the Royal college of Music when my old friend and mentor was one of the first students there in 1889 and told never to play with piano accompaniment if he wanted to be a string ensemble musician? Indeed, what was the prevailing pitch. It wasn't until 1895 that 439@68* was adopted for the proms. A lowering of 15 Hz. An expensive proposition. I wish I knew enough at the time (I was 12) to ask the right Questions. Would he have had some answers?

At some time, as I say, it ceased to be an issue. There was an academic interest in old temperaments in the 1930's. I have read some of the books, Dolmetsch and C Dayton Miller, etc. Indeed I used to tune the Blüthner upright in Carl's descendants home in Haslemere. I have slapped an old Kay bass that I found under a trailer in the Alleghenies. I know that though the frets are calculated twelfth root of two, they are not tuned in accordance by bluegrass players. Never underestimate the ears of them old rock and rollers from the sixties who are still doing sessions. I am often asked to tune when there's a piano in the mix. they don't want cheesy overstretching either, just like mature string players of the same vintage.

Sorry I I seem to have gone on I was on the train for too long I'll stop now.

RXD, singers don't sing in unequal temperament.

Bill, You've been using the phrase,"reverse Well" for a few years and I'm not exactly sure what you mean. Can you explain what "Reverse Well" is and offer suggestions on how to avoid it???

Yes. Same stuff different day. But interesting points arising.

The undesirability of popular music rmhamcent is again being blamed upon ET. Please don't rush to some king if emotional judgement on this yet.

Have any of you seen the latest enhanced release of "Help"? I Saw it on television the other day. Yes. It has lost it's character but why?

the Beatles are straining at notes they do actually reach in the enhanced version but far too soon which kinda makes the characteristic straining for tje notes pointless sounding. It was never quite reaching some if the notes that gave the lads that endearing quality we all remember. As Frank Muir said at the time, that "the quality of Mersey is not trained". Nothing wrong with that

If the Beatles played and sang in tune with electronic enhancement but in an unequal temperament of your choice, which one would render the results artistically acceptable? (since it seems that it is only equal temperament in these "enhancements" that causes "artistic" problems, the original is randomly out of tune. ). I choose "help" as a typical example, any of you who are interested may choose your own.

Although, unlike most, I have no emotional attachment to any of this, I am still academically interested.

I have known Joshua Redman for a long time (I knew Dewey, too), and he has never spoken to me about temperament.

As far as I am concerned, all these discussions of temperament are ways of avoiding dealing with what really makes a piano tuning sound good: Good treble, good bass, and good voicing.

I'm jealous.

I don't know why he would talk about temperament. His style is his chosen temperament.

He clearly doesn't play in ET, and though he is not thinking about the specific UT he uses when he plays (it is not specific), he must be aware about how much he can pull a pitch for emotional effect on just about every note.

Only fixed pitch instruments have a temperament. Have I missed something? Why are we talking about singers and horn players. Come on you guys!

Temperament is only a function of tuning a fixed pitch instrument. All other instruments and voices practice intonation either very well or not so well.

The recording industry now routinely uses so called "pitch correction software" to help the total package of the product they sell sound more appealing but whenever I hear it, it turn it off. It doesn't sound better to me. I wonder what Billy Holiday would sound like with it deployed? Some people did not really like her singing because so much of it was "in the cracks" as they say. But to me, that is where the artistry was. She had a unique sound and messing around with it could never improve it.

Horns, reeds, and such are, in modern instruments, built to ET specifications. That they can pull pitch is an advantage.