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Bechstein Model 10. #2449920
08/12/15 03:46 PM
08/12/15 03:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 11
Scotland
D
DougMacfarlane Offline OP
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DougMacfarlane  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 11
Scotland
Hello there everyone,
I recently purchased a Bechstein Model 10 for £285. It belonged to the grandmother of the lady I bought it from, before her. It is in reasonably good condition, and I am enjoying learning a bit more about piano playing, as well as getting to grips with the basics of how the mechanism works, etc. it has been regularly tuned, and has had the hammers refaced, and has new return tapes. The dampers look original however, but are still working. One thing I have noticed, however, is that whenever the sustain pedal is depressed and held, a quiet click/creaking sound can be heard after pressing every key which has a damper, before the hammer strikes the strings. A similar sound can be heard when the sustain pedal is pressed right down. Any idea what this could be? Is it easily remedied? Many thanks...

Last edited by DougMacfarlane; 08/12/15 05:23 PM.
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Re: Bechstein Model 10. [Re: DougMacfarlane] #2450025
08/12/15 10:17 PM
08/12/15 10:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,758
Mexico City
Gadzar Offline
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Gadzar  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,758
Mexico City
Does the action move when you depress the pedal?

Maybe a slight motion not visible but that you can feel if you put your hand on the hammer rail and then depress the pedal...

Last edited by Gadzar; 08/12/15 10:18 PM.

Rafael Melo
Piano Technician
rafaelmelo@afinacionpianos.com.mx

Serving Mexico City and suburbs.

http://www.afinacionpianos.com.mx
Re: Bechstein Model 10. [Re: Gadzar] #2450093
08/13/15 05:43 AM
08/13/15 05:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 11
Scotland
D
DougMacfarlane Offline OP
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DougMacfarlane  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 11
Scotland
Hi, many thanks for your reply. The action does move slighty when the pedal is depressed, yes. It moves back noticeably when the pedal is released. Any tips on how to prevent this? Thanks again..

Re: Bechstein Model 10. [Re: DougMacfarlane] #2450099
08/13/15 06:35 AM
08/13/15 06:35 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,906
Scotland
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David Boyce Offline
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The vast majority of Bechstein pianos in the UK are pre first world war (see the Bechstein page of my website for the reasons for this), so at about 105 years old, something is bound to be a bit creaky! You regular tuner and technician, if he is competent at all, will be able to diagnose the cause, and explain what's involved in fixing it.

If the creaking is indeed happening because of the action moving, it may be possible to fix it quite simply with a shim of card under the retaining wooden lugs at each end which hold the action in place.

The Model 10 was Bechstein's parallel-strung (not overstrung) model, and they're nice pianos.

If you are interested to find out more about how pianos work, The Haynes Piano Manual is a good buy. It's in full colour throughout, not very expensive, and oriented towards the UK market.


My Bechstein page is at http://www.davidboyce.co.uk/bechstein.php and there is a link there to my No WD40 page which has two Bechstein Model 10 pianos from 1911 on it.

Last edited by David Boyce; 08/13/15 06:40 AM.
Re: Bechstein Model 10. [Re: DougMacfarlane] #2450118
08/13/15 08:39 AM
08/13/15 08:39 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 11
Scotland
D
DougMacfarlane Offline OP
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DougMacfarlane  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 11
Scotland
Thank you for the info. I realise that the piano is over a hundred years old, so overall, I'm pleased with the condition it's in! I already have the Haynes manual- Great book! I'll try the card shims, and see if I can get that to work. Thanks again..

Re: Bechstein Model 10. [Re: DougMacfarlane] #2450125
08/13/15 09:15 AM
08/13/15 09:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,758
Mexico City
Gadzar Offline
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Gadzar  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,758
Mexico City
I've worked on C.Bechsteins model III and 8.

I've fixed several creaking pedals by shiming the actions in order to hold the action tightly in place.

Once the source of the creaking was the old felt in the prop guide. Replacing it with new felt eliminated the problem.

IMO C. Bechsteins uprights are among the better vertical pianos in the world.



Rafael Melo
Piano Technician
rafaelmelo@afinacionpianos.com.mx

Serving Mexico City and suburbs.

http://www.afinacionpianos.com.mx
Re: Bechstein Model 10. [Re: DougMacfarlane] #2450177
08/13/15 12:18 PM
08/13/15 12:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
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Olek Offline
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Olek  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
I agree with all above, the first thing with overdampers is to secure the action, eventually move the wooden rail that hold the dampers so they are applied a little more parallel with the strings plane.

Thin carboard or veener in the right and left locks, try to be sure the action is secure and cannot go up too generally there are profiles to hold the action frame in place but wear and wood reduction did happen so there is some play)

The damper wire can be noisy if this is what you hear, if they are not well guided. (also if the damper motion up is exaggerated because of a regulation to have more resistance in the keys)

Changing the damper felts is possible but not easy, for felt quality we cannot use cheap grade, as the damping is not very efficient by design usually, an in-adapted felt will not work.

the placement of the felt against the strings is very important, it is generally useless to add some mass on the lever if the damper rings too much, bending the wire so the felt is laid flat on the string works better (not very easy job.)

If the action is too far from the strings (hence the shims) the dampers raise more, may be the cause of the noise as they lock in the stop felt above them, or they touch each other, or the wire bows

Those parallel (oblique) old Bechstein can have an interesting tone.

Last edited by Olek; 08/13/15 12:22 PM.

Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
Re: Bechstein Model 10. [Re: DougMacfarlane] #2450179
08/13/15 12:21 PM
08/13/15 12:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 11
Scotland
D
DougMacfarlane Offline OP
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DougMacfarlane  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 11
Scotland
Thanks for the information everyone!

Re: Bechstein Model 10. [Re: DougMacfarlane] #2450445
08/14/15 03:46 AM
08/14/15 03:46 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,906
Scotland
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David Boyce Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,906
Scotland
Olek, the Bechstein Model 10 is not an overdamper piano!

It is parallel (straight) strung, and the action has wooden action brackets, but it is an underdamper action!

Re: Bechstein Model 10. [Re: DougMacfarlane] #2450622
08/14/15 04:33 PM
08/14/15 04:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 11
Scotland
D
DougMacfarlane Offline OP
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DougMacfarlane  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 11
Scotland
David: I live in the Southside of Glasgow, so may give you a call sometime soon!

Re: Bechstein Model 10. [Re: DougMacfarlane] #2450635
08/14/15 05:11 PM
08/14/15 05:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 2
Palm Desert, CA
R
Ray Chandler Offline
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 2
Palm Desert, CA
David or Doug -- does anyone remember my mentor, Harry Lyddall? He lived in Edinburgh many years after I knew him in York.
Ray Chandler, Sr. Technician, Yamaha U.S. / Bösendorfer U.S. (ret)


Ray Chandler
Re: Bechstein Model 10. [Re: DougMacfarlane] #2450638
08/14/15 05:32 PM
08/14/15 05:32 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,906
Scotland
D
David Boyce Offline
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Scotland
Eeek Doug! It's too late! I have been working abroad (in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia) since December, and was just recently home for five weeks, but now am back in KSA. You just missed me! However, I am happy to recommend either of the tuners whose numbers appear at the top of my home page. There are soooo many ancient Bechsteins in Scotland!

Re: Bechstein Model 10. [Re: DougMacfarlane] #2450639
08/14/15 05:34 PM
08/14/15 05:34 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,906
Scotland
D
David Boyce Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,906
Scotland
Ray, I'm sorry, I don't know of Harry Lyddall.

Re: Bechstein Model 10. [Re: David Boyce] #2450689
08/14/15 08:41 PM
08/14/15 08:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 11
Scotland
D
DougMacfarlane Offline OP
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DougMacfarlane  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 11
Scotland
Acht, just missed you David! Must be a bit warmer over there! Sorry Ray, I don't know Harry either.

Re: Bechstein Model 10. [Re: DougMacfarlane] #2450769
08/15/15 07:51 AM
08/15/15 07:51 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,906
Scotland
D
David Boyce Offline
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Joined: May 2007
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Scotland
Quote
Must be a bit warmer over there!

48.2 Celsius yesterday, humidity 13%.

Re: Bechstein Model 10. [Re: David Boyce] #2451061
08/16/15 08:36 AM
08/16/15 08:36 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 11
Scotland
D
DougMacfarlane Offline OP
Junior Member
DougMacfarlane  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 11
Scotland
Toasty!

Re: Bechstein Model 10. [Re: DougMacfarlane] #2451463
08/17/15 02:09 PM
08/17/15 02:09 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,906
Scotland
D
David Boyce Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,906
Scotland
I love it! No pianos here though.....

Re: Bechstein Model 10. [Re: David Boyce] #2452018
08/19/15 05:19 AM
08/19/15 05:19 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 466
Münster, Germany
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Gregor Offline
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Posts: 466
Münster, Germany
Originally Posted by David Boyce
I love it! No pianos here though.....


So you don´t work as a piano tech over there?


piano tech - tuner - dealer
Münster, Germany
www.weldert.de
Re: Bechstein Model 10. [Re: DougMacfarlane] #2452023
08/19/15 05:33 AM
08/19/15 05:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
O
Olek Offline
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Olek  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
They do not care much about music in that country, so pianos !

I was asked to go for the piano of the embassy, but it was clear very soon the visa would not be delivered, due to my origins§

Nice place, indeed for men, women are second category cyutizen and husband property.

Something as immensely rich Bedouins, hence interesting society.


Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
Re: Bechstein Model 10. [Re: DougMacfarlane] #2452082
08/19/15 12:01 PM
08/19/15 12:01 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,906
Scotland
D
David Boyce Offline
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David Boyce  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,906
Scotland
Gregor, indeed I don't, no. I have gone back into my other career - teaching.

Olek, yes, it's fascinating here in many ways!

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