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Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: JayGVan] #2448664
08/08/15 04:04 AM
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Speaking strictly about action and after finally being able to go through the site and videos I find it remarkable that the pins that prevent sideways-movement are discussed. I guess it is not a common feature?

Of course tested our Kawai RH3 action and found no sideways-movement on glissandi :-)


Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)
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Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: CyberGene] #2448689
08/08/15 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Speaking strictly about action, I can't really comprehend how something with regular plastic digital piano action (and wooden decorations) would dethrone a real grand piano action...


+1

AvantGrand: Real action, optical sensors, vibrating (not a gimmick) keys, decent 4-channel sampling, but then again, there's always Pianoteq.

New Rolands: Plastic -folded- action with wooden accents (gimmick), rubber-thingy sensors, and, is it modeled or modelled? Who knows.

Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: Pete14] #2448740
08/08/15 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Speaking strictly about action, I can't really comprehend how something with regular plastic digital piano action (and wooden decorations) would dethrone a real grand piano action...


+1

AvantGrand: Real action, optical sensors, vibrating (not a gimmick) keys, decent 4-channel sampling, but then again, there's always Pianoteq.

New Rolands: Plastic -folded- action with wooden accents (gimmick), rubber-thingy sensors, and, is it modeled or modelled? Who knows.


Well, the wise thing to do, would be to await one of these new HP or LX Pianos to be in a store near you, and base your opinion on actually having played one.

You seem to somehow have written them off already based on a couple of specs you don't like, and some still unanswered questions awaiting clarification.

I still struggle that in 2015, minds can be so closed and eyes can be so blinkered to something new and potentially great.

Digital Piano Zealotry runs deep I guess.

Jay

Last edited by Jay Roland; 08/08/15 11:20 AM. Reason: Spelling

Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: JayGVan] #2448741
08/08/15 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Jay Roland

Digital Piano Zealotry runs deep I guess.


If they want to, humans can argue everything and anything.

Today we were in a establishment that sells pianos, grand pianos (including Shigeru Kawai) and the contempt with which some staff was regarding DPs was fascinating to behold.


Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)
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Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: Hendrik42] #2448744
08/08/15 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Hendrik42
Originally Posted by Jay Roland

Digital Piano Zealotry runs deep I guess.


If they want to, humans can argue everything and anything.

Today we were in a establishment that sells pianos, grand pianos (including Shigeru Kawai) and the contempt with which some staff was regarding DPs was fascinating to behold.


Hendrick42,

Question for you then....let's put price aside for a moment.

As a consumer, if you had the choice between two brick and mortar stores, both of whom carried the same digital model that you thought you wanted to buy:

Would you purchase from the Store that happily showed you the features and benefits that a digital Piano can offer....If they didn't carry acoustics?

Or do you buy at the store that carries fine acoustics, with digital as a complement, where the staff looked at digital as an inconvenience, but know their stuff when it comes to their acoustic and digital selection?

It sounds like you were fascinated with the contempt shown today.

Jay

Last edited by Jay Roland; 08/08/15 11:43 AM.

Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: JayGVan] #2448785
08/08/15 02:08 PM
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I think zealotry started with statements like "dethroning" and "king of DP-s" smile I am not a brand loyal guy as might be seen in my signature. Lately I've been using Kawai pianos but I am also criticizing them here on regular basis. I'd be more than happy to see Roland changing the game with the modeling smile


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Currently: Kawai ES7 -> Garritan CFX
Previously: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100
Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: JayGVan] #2448786
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Originally Posted by Jay Roland

It sounds like you were fascinated with the contempt shown today.


I buy what I believe in. If I had the choice of two shops where one would not believe in what I want to buy, I would consider their arguments. When I have made up my mind, I would buy at the shop where they believe in what I want to buy.

One staff in that (primarily) acoustic piano shop was like "DPs have a tiny lifespan! There is a new one every time you blink! Why would you buy a DP when you can buy an acoustic starting at just 3-5000 EUR!".

I even get that. I work in IT, so I think DP product cycles of three years are, like, aeons, but I get that people used to pianos that take years to make, do not ever change and where technology (here: new materials) historically has not been a differentiator, are stressed out by changes every three years.

They compare a DP life span of, who really knows, 15 years with a acoustic of >60 years. A DP goes into landfill when you die. An acoustic, your children will probably fight over.

I also get that when they were young, a new piano at 3-5000 EUR (equivalent, the EUR is not even that old) would have been crazy talk.

But this person was so utterly disregarding DPs, it was like talking to someone from a different planet. I wonder what would have happened if I would have pulled out an iPad, plugged it into a DP and showed Piano Maestro or Synthesia. Brain damage?

It was fascinating. That does not mean it was good. :-)


Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)
Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: Pete14] #2448870
08/08/15 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
AvantGrand: Real action, optical sensors, vibrating (not a gimmick) keys, decent 4-channel sampling, but then again, there's always Pianoteq.

New Rolands: Plastic -folded- action with wooden accents (gimmick), rubber-thingy sensors, and, is it modeled or modelled? Who knows.

Well, most digitals don't have "real" actions for several reasons. Heaviness, bulk, and expense being at the forefront. The Avant Grands have a particular niche, but they're rare and unpopular because for the vast majority of people, other models fit their requirements better.

I'm sure the universe of optical sensors is as wide as that of rubber sensors (i.e. so wide as to make comparison between the categories meaningless), but what's so great about those on the Avant Grand, and what do they do as a result that other pianos don't? AFAIK they're used simply out of necessity, so that the pressure of rubber switches doesn't interfere with the feel of the "real" action. But if you're designing a digital action from scratch, this pressure is something you can account for, hence rubber switches work perfectly in most DP actions.

Avant Grands sound fine to me, but they're not exactly held up as masterpieces of sampling. Roland wins this one.

Not sure what you mean by "folded" action, and why it's so bad in your mind. The hammers strike upwards behind the key pivot (unlike the Ivory-Feel G / PHA-4 Standard, where the hammers come up backwards, underneath the key). Yes, they are triggered on the near side of the pivot, but mechanically that's the same as pushing on a hypothetical extension beyond the pivot - better, perhaps, because you're not fighting gravity. The Kawai wooden actions are carefully crafted to look superficially more like a real action, but in reality they're no closer (just compare pictures of a real action and the Kawai GF - they're nothing like each other), as well as being less reliable. Give me precision robotic engineering any day.

Originally Posted by Hendrik42
A DP goes into landfill when you die. An acoustic, your children will probably fight over.

I'm not so sure of that. My parents have an acoustic that we played when I was growing up, and really, I don't want it. I don't want the hassle of the space it takes up, moving it, having it maintained, and only being able to play when it suits others. I keep telling them to get rid of it. The popularity and desirability of acoustic pianos is on the wane, as the 2014 NAMM report showed: in the US, total units sold has been in steady decline from 82k in 2004 to 32k in 2013. Digitals have stayed flat between 120k and 130k units sold over the same period, and are clearly favoured by buyers these days.


Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage + Grotrian / Galaxy Vintage D / CFX Lite
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810
Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: lolatu] #2448877
08/08/15 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by lolatu
The Avant Grands have a particular niche, but they're rare and unpopular because for the vast majority of people, other models fit their requirements better.


Unpopular? Most digital piano owners that don't own one already would like to have one in a heartbeat. For most prospective DP owners the only requirement the AG doesn't fit is that it doesn't have a low price.


Roland RD-1000 | Kawai CS11 | Dexibell Vivo P7 | Korg G1 Air |
Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: JayGVan] #2448891
08/08/15 09:56 PM
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It's true that there is nothing wrong with a folded (mechanics under the keys) action; however, Roland is calling the new action a hybrid action, and besides the wooden adornments, this new action is not much different from their current actions.

Now, to say that the new Rolands will dethrone the AvantGrand is a bit of a stretch. The action in the AvantGrand is superior in every sense: real double escapement, longer keys, etc.

When I use the term "real," I mean exactly that. The AvantGrand's action is an authentic grand-piano action; whereas the new Roland's action is a decent emulation. No dethroning there.

Regarding the optical sensors, I agree. They do not interfere with the feel of the "real action." Now, isn't that a good thing?


Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: EssBrace] #2448896
08/08/15 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by lolatu
The Avant Grands have a particular niche, but they're rare and unpopular because for the vast majority of people, other models fit their requirements better.


Unpopular? Most digital piano owners that don't own one already would like to have one in a heartbeat. For most prospective DP owners the only requirement the AG doesn't fit is that it doesn't have a low price.


Maybe a bad choice of word. I mean it as in an unpopular choice, just as a Ferrari is an unpopular choice in the family car market.


Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage + Grotrian / Galaxy Vintage D / CFX Lite
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810
Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: lolatu] #2448945
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Originally Posted by lolatu
My parents have an acoustic that we played when I was growing up, and really, I don't want it. I don't want the hassle of the space it takes up, moving it, having it maintained, and only being able to play when it suits others.

Being able to play whenever you want -- like, really, whenever -- is just massive. As bad as you want, as loud as you want. The amount of freedom this brings is way undersold.


Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)
Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: lolatu] #2448950
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Originally Posted by lolatu
...the 2014 NAMM report showed: in the US, total units sold has been in steady decline from 82k in 2004 to 32k in 2013. Digitals have stayed flat between 120k and 130k units sold over the same period, and are clearly favoured by buyers these days.


A survey on piano buying trends in the US is unlikely to be representative of world trends for at least two reasons: first, wouldn't it be true to say that, in the US, there is more space for house building and extension building than in most other places in the world. Second, people in the USA have a higher disposable income on average than in most of the rest of the world. A comparison with piano-buying habits elsewhere would be interesting.



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Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: lolatu] #2448953
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Originally Posted by lolatu
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by lolatu
The Avant Grands have a particular niche, but they're rare and unpopular because for the vast majority of people, other models fit their requirements better.


Unpopular? Most digital piano owners that don't own one already would like to have one in a heartbeat. For most prospective DP owners the only requirement the AG doesn't fit is that it doesn't have a low price.


Maybe a bad choice of word. I mean it as in an unpopular choice, just as a Ferrari is an unpopular choice in the family car market.


Yes I do get what you're saying. But a Ferrari is not only too expensive for most people it is also not practical for the needs of a family. An Avant Grand (N2 or N1) is a straight swap in every practical sense for almost any console type DP. But it is expensive and therefore I agree it is chosen far less often than a Clavinova or Kawai CA/CS or Roland HP/LX.

I played a Yamaha NU1 (real upright action) for the first time a few weeks ago. I played it at the same time as a CLP 575 and Kawai CA97 and a CS10 (which looked fabulous). The NU1 was just better on every level in a tactile sense (and the AG is better again). I don't think any of the DP actions come particularly close to a real piano action. That's not to say they can't be very nice and as Jay points out it's the connection between keys and sound engine that is equally important to action feel alone. And in fact that is why the NU1 wouldn't be for me. But if you imagine a room containing all these pianos (including AG) - but they were switched off - I find it very difficult to believe anyone would choose anything but the AG - just in terms of key feel and control.


Roland RD-1000 | Kawai CS11 | Dexibell Vivo P7 | Korg G1 Air |
Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: JayGVan] #2448956
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additionally to toddy's observations:
And there currently still is a finance crisis caused by banksters in 2008, 7 years ago.
As an extreme example, I know from a first hand account that the piano sales in Greece, practically came to a halt in 2008.

In the big picture, real incomes are slowly shrinking, even for high qualified people. Jobs became insecure or short term. Who is to buy those acoustics? Who is adventurous enough to take a loan or sacrifice savings for a grand piano in this situation?


Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: JayGVan] #2448962
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On the other hand, you hear of a piano learning boom in China. I wouldn't be surprised if acoustic remains the standard for ambitious parents there, and there are many Chinese pianos of quality at relatively low price, I believe.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symphonic Orchestra & Choirs / Sample Mod, Trumpet 3 / Garritan CFX lite / Imperfect Samples Steinway / Production Grand C7 compact
Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: JayGVan] #2449137
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D@mn you Roland and the horse you came in on for feeding my G.A.S. illness and for thus increasing my marital stress! Looking forward to hearing more from Jay once he's put his hands on these beasts.


Keys: Yamaha GC2, Casio Privia PX-3, Roland RD800, Alesis VI61, Pianoteq 6.0
My motto: Play and Let Play!
Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: JayGVan] #2449538
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Day one of meetings is done. I'll have a chunk of the afternoon to spend with the new pianos today.

Excited to give you all some of my initial impressions.

Jay


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: JayGVan] #2449555
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The most important question is: are these fully modeled or not?


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Currently: Kawai ES7 -> Garritan CFX
Previously: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100
Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: JayGVan] #2449630
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The quick answer before I go into another meeting is: Yes. It is a fully modelled sound engine.

And they sound and feel great....like really great....all of them.

More details to come.

Jay


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: JayGVan] #2449639
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Originally Posted by Jay Roland

It is a fully modelled sound engine.
Jay


This is news!


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symphonic Orchestra & Choirs / Sample Mod, Trumpet 3 / Garritan CFX lite / Imperfect Samples Steinway / Production Grand C7 compact
Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: JayGVan] #2449646
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Originally Posted by Jay Roland
The quick answer before I go into another meeting is: Yes. It is a fully modelled sound engine.

And they sound and feel great....like really great....all of them.

More details to come.

Jay


That is good news. If anything happens to my V-Grand 10 or 15 years down the road, I now know that Roland is intent on getting their modelling technology into the main stream, making it possible to replace if necessary. I hope it never happens, but it is nice to know that there will be alternatives should that happen. Equally important is that this technology will get into the hands of more people. I know that several here have expressed dislike for the sound of the V-Piano, but I believe there are many who will appreciate Roland's modelling. Great stuff! I really enjoy my V-Grand and am glad that others will be able to enjoy this technology soon.

Tony


Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: JayGVan] #2449654
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Jay,

Ho different is the sound and feel of the Lx17 to the Lx15e? Is there a big difference in the sound system? How about the touch?

Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: JayGVan] #2449678
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@Jay,

Here is info from the "Specs" page for the LX-17 (taken from the Roland website) and there still needs to be clarification between what you are calling "complete modelling" and what is the "SuperNatural" sound engine that makes use of the following listed "Piano Designer" features:

1) "Piano Designer" features:

[Linked Image]

The LX-17 only has "Piano Designer features" (not "complete modelling") which is the same as the older LX-15 models and you cannot change all of the same parameters as in the V-Piano -- as I own a V-Piano.

Looks like there may be some "modelling" in the "Piano Designer" features above although one cannot alter the "Decay" parameter in the LX-17 as it does not exist (among many others) and one is able to make incremental changes (from -100 through +100) in the V-Piano -- these changes are not possible in the LX-17.

The LX-17 cannot be directly compared to the full modelling functionality of the V-Piano.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

2) LX-17 -- Rated Power Output -- 74 watts?

[Linked Image]

The current specs give a total output of only 74 watts.

The LX-15e has a rated power output of 160 watts.

Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: JayGVan] #2449704
08/12/15 01:03 AM
08/12/15 01:03 AM
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Posts: 1,213
Vancouver, BC
JayGVan Offline OP
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JayGVan  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,213
Vancouver, BC
Ok so....as the only person on this forum who is employed by Roland and has actually spent time with the pianos in question, allow me to clarify a couple of things....

Yes, the editing parameters are different, but this is a completely modelled sound engine.There are no samples on board at all for the piano sound generation I'm not ahead of myself. It IS different than the V-Piano. It doesn't in any way diminish the significance of the V-Piano as the first fully modelled hardware piano, nor does it make the V-Piano any less useful to its users.

But it is definitely aimed towards a home player in the way it operates, and in the easy way you can edit your piano sounds from the familiar and powerful Piano Designer suite.

And even more exciting for every digital piano customer, it puts our current finest piano sound generation technology in a home cabinet with a beautiful speaker system, at an affordable price.

The existing Piano Designer app that worked with the previous SUPERNatural engine is compatible with the new series. The difference is, that it uses a Bluetooth connection built in as opposed to a Wifi connection with a separate accessory product. (In most countries anyways....as I understand it, some countries won't benefit from the bluetooth connection, although I have no idea which those are, nor the reasons why)

It's been 6 years since V-Piano was introduced, and the engineers have definitely made some remarkable progress by packaging this level of technology and musical expression in beautifully compact upright cabinetry.

Also I was well aware of the difference in speaker output wattage. When I sat down at the LX-17, I wondered what to expect. But it made no difference in piano performance at all. We had previous series of pianos there for comparison...

It is not an error. Output wattage has little effect on performance when the amplifier and speaker combination gain from a VAST increase in efficiency and design.

Without going into detail that I do not have the energy for after travelling home this evening following 2 long days of meetings:

The new completely modelled SUPERNatural Sound engine is simply outstanding. The PHA-50 hybrid action feels very very good, and the combination allows the player/instrument connection to be the best I've ever felt in any Roland Piano I've ever played. It was a VERY organic experience. I am genuinely excited by what I heard, and played. And am even more excited for our dealers to receive their shipments towards the end of September.

I'll share more details after I have some sleep.

Jay

Last edited by Jay Roland; 08/12/15 01:07 AM.

Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: JayGVan] #2449706
08/12/15 01:07 AM
08/12/15 01:07 AM
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Grandman Offline
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Originally Posted by Jay Roland
Ok so....as the only person on this forum who is employed by Roland and has actually spent time with the pianos in question, allow me to clarify a couple of things....

Yes, the editing parameters are different, but this is a completely modelled sound engine. I'm not ahead of myself. It IS different than the V-Piano. It doesn't in any way diminish the significance of the V-Piano as the first fully modelled hardware piano, nor does it make the V-Piano any less useful to its users.

But it is definitely aimed towards a home player in the way it operates, and in the easy way you can edit your piano sounds from the familiar and powerful Piano Designer suite.

And even more exciting for every digital piano customer, it puts our current finest piano sound generation technology in a home cabinet with a beautiful speaker system, at an affordable price.

The existing Piano Designer app that worked with the previous SUPERNatural engine is compatible with the new series. The difference is, that it uses a Bluetooth connection built in as opposed to a Wifi connection with a separate accessory product. (In most countries anyways....as I understand it, some countries won't benefit from the bluetooth connection, although I have no idea which those are, nor the reasons why)

It's been 6 years since V-Piano was introduced, and the engineers have definitely made some remarkable progress by packaging this level of technology and musical expression in beautifully compact upright cabinetry.

Also I was well aware of the difference in speaker output wattage. When I sat down at the LX-17, I wondered what to expect. But it made no difference in piano performance at all. We had previous series of pianos there for comparison...

It is not an error. Output wattage has little effect on performance when the amplifier and speaker combination gain from a VAST increase in efficiency and design.

Without going into detail that I do not have the energy for after travelling home this evening following 2 long days of meetings:

The new completely modelled SUPERNatural Sound engine is simply outstanding. The PHA-50 hybrid action feels very very good, and the combination allows the player/instrument connection to be the best I've ever felt in any Roland Piano I've ever played. It was a VERY organic experience. I am genuinely excited by what I heard, and played. And am even more excited for our dealers to receive their shipments towards the end of September.

I'll share more details after I have some sleep.

Jay


Great news. I'm still interested in knowing how different the tone and touch is as compared to the LX15e. Also, has the cabinet changed at all from the LX15e? It looks to be the same cabinet.

Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: JayGVan] #2449710
08/12/15 01:31 AM
08/12/15 01:31 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,213
Vancouver, BC
JayGVan Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
JayGVan  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,213
Vancouver, BC
The change in tone and touch is exceedingly hard to put into words Grandman. You'll want to try an LX-17 as soon as you can.

if I had to boil it down to a word, I'd say that the whole playing experience is very organic. I had high expectations when I walked into the room. They were exceeded in every way.

One noticeable change in the PHA-50 was that the escapement simulation happened farther down, and was more pronounced. Trills and repeats were effortless, and the keys have a very satisfying feel to them. The connection to the sound engine was outstanding. When i asked for a very delicate pianissimo, I got it. When I wanted fortissimo, I got it.

But even more important, was that it was very controllable and immediately comfortable from the moment I sat down in front of it. I've been playing Roland Actions for the better part of 20 years between my time in retail and the last 12 years with Roland. My experience with our piano actions is long. This is the best yet.

I was always of the mind that a wooden side of a key made little to no difference, and I learned over the last few days that it actually can make a very large difference. And the important distinction to make here is that the wood isn't just cosmetic. It contributes to the overall feel of the action, and adds a a very satisfying feel to the overall package, without any of the drawbacks of a traditional wooden action. I found that I "felt" the cabinet speakers through the key action much more than I have in the past.

The piano tone will be familiar to a Roland owner, and someone who liked what the original sampled+modelling SUPERNatural brought to the table. But it is richer yet more delicate, and it gave the impression of being a very nice piano under my fingers, as opposed to the recording of a very nice piano under my fingers. I found that when i pushed it hard (Staccato fortissimo playing) the overtones weren't too present. Rather, they were just right. The decays were long and natural, and the notes had a relationship to each other that generated beautiful harmonics and overtones. The Bass was BIG yet not tubby, and the treble had a sparkle to it...the midrange was present, not overpowering nor underwhelming. There was no boxiness present at any dynamic level.

In the past couple of series, I have always preferred the second variant (Ballad piano) over the core "Concert Grand". Not this time. There was something about the 1st tone that really spoke to me. I tried others, but returned to the 1st every time.

One of my favourite new features of the entire series, was that you can turn the pianos on and off simply by opening and closing the lid. And the time from "Off" to the point it was ready to play was just a few seconds.


Last edited by Jay Roland; 08/12/15 01:34 AM. Reason: spelling

Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: JayGVan] #2449711
08/12/15 01:36 AM
08/12/15 01:36 AM
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Sofia, Bulgaria
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Great news! Can't wait to test these pianos myself!


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Currently: Kawai ES7 -> Garritan CFX
Previously: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100
Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: JayGVan] #2449712
08/12/15 01:36 AM
08/12/15 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Jay Roland
The change in tone and touch is exceedingly hard to put into words Grandman. You'll want to try an LX-17 as soon as you can.

if I had to boil it down to a word, I'd say that the whole playing experience is very organic. I had high expectations when I walked into the room. They were exceeded in every way.

One noticeable change in the PHA-50 was that the escapement simulation happened farther down, and was more pronounced. Trills and repeats were effortless, and the keys have a very satisfying feel to them. The connection to the sound engine was outstanding. When i asked for a very delicate pianissimo, I got it. When I wanted fortissimo, I got it.

But even more important, was that it was very controllable and immediately comfortable from the moment I sat down in front of it. I've been playing Roland Actions for the better part of 20 years between my time in retail and the last 12 years with Roland. My experience with our piano actions is long. This is the best yet.

I was always of the mind that a wooden side of a key made little to no difference, and I learned over the last few days that it actually can make a very large difference. And the important distinction to make here is that the wood isn't just cosmetic. It contributes to the overall feel of the action, and adds a a very satisfying feel to the overall package, without any of the drawbacks of a traditional wooden action. I found that I "felt" the cabinet speakers through the key action much more than I have in the past.

The piano tone will be familiar to a Roland owner, and someone who liked what the original sampled+modelling SUPERNatural brought to the table. But it is richer yet more delicate, and it gave the impression of being a very nice piano under my fingers, as opposed to the recording of a very nice piano under my fingers. I found that when i pushed it hard (Staccato fortissimo playing) the overtones weren't too present. Rather, they were just right. The decays were long and natural, and the notes had a relationship to each other that generated beautiful harmonics and overtones. The Bass was BIG yet not tubby, and the treble had a sparkle to it...the midrange was present, not overpowering nor underwhelming. There was no boxiness present at any dynamic level.

In the past couple of series, I have always preferred the second variant (Ballad piano) over the core "Concert Grand". Not this time. There was something about the 1st tone that really spoke to me. I tried others, but returned to the 1st every time.

One of my favourite new features of the entire series, was that you can turn the pianos on and off simply by opening and closing the lid. And the time from "Off" to the point it was ready to play was just a few seconds.



Can you speak further as to the improved speaker system? Especially as compared tot he previous model?

Also, are the keytops any different? They appear to be shiny black keys as opposed to the matted ones on the LX15.

Last edited by Grandman; 08/12/15 01:43 AM.
Re: New Series of HP and LX Pianos from Roland [Re: JayGVan] #2449714
08/12/15 01:45 AM
08/12/15 01:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,213
Vancouver, BC
JayGVan Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
JayGVan  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,213
Vancouver, BC
I'm just off to bed....it's been a long day...but here's what I think. It's organic.

It's designed and executed in such a way, that you don't get the sense that it's an amplified piano.
Rather you get a beautiful piano, with the various resonances, etc. coming at you in the right amount from the right place.

I'll tell you this though, when you play an LX-17, make sure you have the top lid open. It very much contributes to the overall realism and organic nature of the new speaker system.

The LX-15e had a VERY powerful speaker system that did a fantastic job of recreating the Piano Sound engine contained within.

The LX-17 is that, and more.

The PHA-50 Action is Ivory feel for the White Keys along with the "ebonized" Sharps and Flats :-)

Jay

Last edited by Jay Roland; 08/12/15 01:46 AM. Reason: To answer the Edit above.

Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
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