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Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 #2431459
06/13/15 05:31 PM
06/13/15 05:31 PM
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Håvard Offline OP
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Hello there! I was just curious to hear if someone have tried the CP4, and made up an opinion of it. I bought it because of the characteristic Yamaha sound and wooden keys, but must say im quite disappointed. With hours of hours of testing the different CF/CFX samples, reverb settings, key-off and equalizer, I have concluded that I actually prefer my older Yamaha P-155. I'd say the CP4 sounds are muffled, noisy and weak in the lower and higher ranges. Does anyone else feel the same? Or have I just missed some crucial settings to make it all sound better? Was it a bad piano to go for when the pure piano sound is my focus? It seems to me that it is made more for the band gigger - with the quick to use user interface and a big soundbank.

Now don't assume I'm complaining, I'm pretty sure I will be able to sell it again for a good price, as it is a quite rare instrument in my area - and I was able to snatch it for an extremely low price.

Sorry if there already is a bigger CP4 thread, I wasn't able to find one.

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Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: Håvard] #2431461
06/13/15 05:35 PM
06/13/15 05:35 PM
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Morodiene Offline
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What equipment are you playing it through? Sometimes headphones or monitors sound great for one DP but not so great for another.

You said "hours of testing", but over how many weeks? It often takes a while to grow accustomed to something new. I can hardly believe the P155 is a better instrument than the CP4.


private piano/voice teacher FT

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Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: Håvard] #2431463
06/13/15 05:42 PM
06/13/15 05:42 PM
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Håvard Offline OP
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Thanks for the quick reply Morodiene =) I've had it for half a year now, and I would say I've played 100+ hours on it now. Yes it's really strange to say - but the newer instrument with a $1000 higher price really disappointed me. I'm testing it with headphones and monitors that I also play on the P-155 with.

Now bear in mind I am only looking for the authentic piano sound, no synths interest me. I see that CP4 does not have Stereo Sustain samples and Key-off Samples, which P-155 actually has.

Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: Håvard] #2431465
06/13/15 05:50 PM
06/13/15 05:50 PM
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I think the CP4 with it's light weight, responsive key action, range of adjustable EP sounds is good for live gigs. The CFX piano sound promises much, but with the absence of string resonance and (only or mainly) the synth like sound adjustments, is not for someone wanting to use it at home for piano. I also found the UI unintuitive. This at least was my own conclusion after checking one out a few times.

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Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: Håvard] #2431468
06/13/15 05:58 PM
06/13/15 05:58 PM
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I've had mine for over a year and like it. I haven't noticed the sound problems you're having, nor have I made many adjustments. Over a long time, I decided I don't particularly like the CFX sound through headphones - it's just too harsh and overpowering. But the CFX sounds great through speakers. In the CF sample, I prefer the CD Dark setting. I've not settled on anything with the S6. I also play it with Pianoteq Stage.

Did you try doing a factory reset? If you got it for a low price, was it used? And if so did someone possibly mess with the settings beyond the point that the quick reset will fix them? I had to do a factory reset after I downloaded a set of custom performances and discovered it made some low-level changes I didn't like. There's also a firmware update, although it doesn't address the issue you're having.

What kind of speakers are you playing through and which outputs are you using on the CP4? Does it sound equally bad through headphones and speakers? Have you tried different velocity curves? They can make a huge difference in the character of the sound. If you can't even get the CF sample to at least approximate your P-155, I'm wondering if you got a defective instrument.

One stupid question: Did you accidentally bump the mod wheel? I did that a couple times when I first got my CP4 and once it took me almost 20 minutes to figure out what happened to the sound.

For "pure piano sound" I don't know. You'll probably get other suggestions from people here. The CP4 seems to get more interest on some other forums I read.

Yamaha has a CP4/40 forum here:

https://yamahasynth.com/index.php?o...stings&category_id=14&Itemid=851


Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: Håvard] #2431469
06/13/15 06:00 PM
06/13/15 06:00 PM
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Håvard Offline OP
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Indeed those plusses is not any help for me. I will definitely look for a DP with String Resonance and Damper Resonance if I replace it. Strange to also say that I have kind of fallen in love with the P-155 reverb, as it kind of gives a good feeling of resonance and punch to the touch. The CP4 reverb was just really buzzy and almost gave me a headache even with mild settings.

Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: David Farley] #2431471
06/13/15 06:11 PM
06/13/15 06:11 PM
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Håvard Offline OP
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Yes David the CFX is really sweet, but I think it really lacks in depth when for example playing classical songs. Yeah tried factory reset, no it was not used, and have not bumped the pitch-bend x)

Yea increasing the velocity depth was essential, as I think it sounded really weak with only 64. Tried it with Beyerdynamic and Sennheiser HD598 through the "phones" input, but im positive it doesn't make much difference as it sounds pretty much the same when recording to USB in wav format.

Last edited by Håvard; 06/13/15 06:14 PM.
Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: Håvard] #2431491
06/13/15 07:13 PM
06/13/15 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Håvard
I will definitely look for a DP with String Resonance and Damper Resonance if I replace it.


Yes but resonance features - whether present or not - will not address your fundamental criticisms of the sound being "muffled, noisy and weak".

I have previously owned a Yamaha with exactly the same sample set as the P-155 and I own a CP1 with samples I assume that are related to the CP4's - at least as far as the CF-III samples are concerned. I think the CP's samples are far more dimensional and nuanced than the earlier sounds. But I would agree the earlier Yamaha samples are very fat and ballsy. Maybe that's what you miss?

Personally I don't much care for the newer CFX samples - I think they're brittle sounding.

Having the CP1 I cannot believe anyone would describe its piano sounds as "muffled, noisy and weak" and I must assume the CP1's sounds are very closely related to those of the CP4 (certainly in terms of the CF-III samples). However if that's how you feel I think you own the wrong piano!

Good luck in finding something more to your liking.

Cheers,

Steve


Roland RD-1000 | Nord Piano 3 | Dexibell Vivo P7
Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: Håvard] #2431556
06/13/15 11:24 PM
06/13/15 11:24 PM
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Thanks for your sharing!!Håvard

I am considering to get one CP4 since many people give positive comments on this woody keyboard.

Do you think it's any difference on action comparing your P155 and CP4?(wooden and plastic key? ) Does it significantly to make you feel better on playing?

Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: garywong0923] #2431590
06/14/15 05:22 AM
06/14/15 05:22 AM
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Håvard Offline OP
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Originally Posted by David Farley
For "pure piano sound" I don't know. You'll probably get other suggestions from people here.

Well I think that part would be more of a personal taste thing. To me, any DP with "dry" settings sounds lifeless. I think the CP4 settings only polluted the pianosound, where the P-155 settings would create a fake, but trustworthy brilliance, punch and resonance which almost made it sound like a real upright to me.

Originally Posted by garywong0923
Thanks for your sharing!!Håvard

I am considering to get one CP4 since many people give positive comments on this woody keyboard.

Do you think it's any difference on action comparing your P155 and CP4?(wooden and plastic key? ) Does it significantly to make you feel better on playing?

Hey Gary! Wooden keys was one of the main reasons I bought it, but for some reason I still dont enjoy the touch. That might also be because I'm not satisfied with the sound coming from it when playing, but I'd actually say there is almost a bit too much resistance from the keys... Sorry I'm pretty bad at explaining in english, and I'm sure this is much because of my personal taste - but I'd say it does not at all represent the grand piano touch that I was hoping for. And yes I actually prefer the plastic touch of the P-155, even after playing at the CP4 for weeks!

So Gary, I don't know if there is much more to say, hehe... I'm at least pretty excited to test the P-255 and Kawai MP11.

Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: Håvard] #2431595
06/14/15 05:58 AM
06/14/15 05:58 AM
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Hm. I am practicing on a P155 regularly and know it rather well. I've played the CP4 in shops a few times. Although the P155 is a solid piano (especially for its price) I am sure I'd prefer the CP4 for many reasons, including both touch and sound(s). To me, the sound is the weakest side of the P155, overly dynamic (this is in fact a substantial limitation for my practicing), very much on the bright side, with obvious looping which makes long notes or chords rather lifeless. The touch however is quite good.

Hope you find a piano you like - or just stay with your P155. Why spend the cash if you don't see an advantage in spending it? What is it that you find lacking in the P155?

Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: maurus] #2431599
06/14/15 06:33 AM
06/14/15 06:33 AM
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Håvard Offline OP
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Originally Posted by maurus
...
Strange to hear... Well, I guess personal taste is a huge factor in our opinions x) I really love the extreme expression from the bright keys, how can that be a limitation for your practicing? I do agree that long notes/chords sounds lifeless, for calmer and less detailed pieces id actually prefer the CP4. But I think boosting the 5.9 Sustain setting and using the FC3 pedal improves that.

When traveling I had the opportunity to try the CP4 for 5 minutes, and I ordered it from a local shop (not in stock, had to be shipped) when they offered a very low price on it. Apparently those 5 minutes convinced me it was going to be my next piano for years to come, but I guess I was wrong. If i get it sold at a fair price, I will at least try other alternatives (if i can find any... bad stores here in Norway). Sound quality is an interesting thing, and I am very curious to see how different samplings, String Resonance, Damper Resonance and 256 polyphony can sound like on a DP.

Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: Håvard] #2431603
06/14/15 07:21 AM
06/14/15 07:21 AM
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maurus Offline
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Originally Posted by Håvard
I really love the extreme expression from the bright keys, how can that be a limitation for your practicing?

For me, practicing on this particular P155 is a substitute for playing an acoustic piano (which I usually do). Hence if a DP behaves quite differently than an acoustic piano there is a limit for what you can do while practicing on the DP.

Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: garywong0923] #2431604
06/14/15 07:34 AM
06/14/15 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by garywong0923
...
I am considering to get one CP4 since many people give positive comments on this woody keyboard.

Do you think it's any difference on action comparing your P155 and CP4?(wooden and plastic key? )...


Many experts will tell you (and I agree) that the material of the key is not as important as its construction and feel. Don't let what you read sway you (including this post), but instead let your own touch be the judge.


Keys: Yamaha GC2, Casio Privia PX-3, Roland RD800, Alesis VI61, Pianoteq 6.0
My motto: Play and Let Play!
Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: maurus] #2431609
06/14/15 07:58 AM
06/14/15 07:58 AM
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Håvard Offline OP
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Originally Posted by maurus
Originally Posted by Håvard
I really love the extreme expression from the bright keys, how can that be a limitation for your practicing?

For me, practicing on this particular P155 is a substitute for playing an acoustic piano (which I usually do). Hence if a DP behaves quite differently than an acoustic piano there is a limit for what you can do while practicing on the DP.
Of course an acoustic is always to prefer. When I find one, I suddenly have the motivation to practise three times the longer than what I usually do, and technique feels much lighter and more natural, but sadly I have nowhere to play on one. Playing on a DP limits you indeed, but to me, CP4 feels more limitating than the P-155.

Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: petes1] #2431614
06/14/15 08:23 AM
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Thanks!!! petes1.
You help me a lot! I should trust my own feeling! Still searching the right piano laugh


Havard, I has played yamaha P255 for one year. Honestly, I don't enjoy with the key touch. It seems to have the same problem of "too much resistance from keys" like your CP4. I compared the P255 and CP4 lately. P255 has relative more resistance than CP4. So, if Cp4's key weight is too heavier for you, you will not like the P255.

Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: garywong0923] #2431617
06/14/15 08:29 AM
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Håvard Offline OP
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Oh, even more resistance than CP4? Would still be worth to try it, but thats disappointing to hear... Gary, you should at least try it out for an hour maybe before you make up an opinion I think. Trusting my own feeling made me buy an instrument i didn't like =P

Last edited by Håvard; 06/14/15 08:30 AM.
Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: Håvard] #2431623
06/14/15 08:57 AM
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After all, we should trust our feeling. I tried the cp4 many time in different days ,then come to this conclusion. Anyways, you may take it as an opinion from a user and try those piano by yourself !

Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: Håvard] #2431624
06/14/15 09:01 AM
06/14/15 09:01 AM
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Håvard Offline OP
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Yes i agree smile I actually don't regret buying it, as I've learned so much from playing it. At this point it will be much easier for me to figure out what to go for if I were to look for a new one. Good luck with your upcoming purchase Gary!

Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: Håvard] #2431627
06/14/15 09:06 AM
06/14/15 09:06 AM
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Morodiene Offline
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Originally Posted by Håvard
Originally Posted by David Farley
For "pure piano sound" I don't know. You'll probably get other suggestions from people here.

Well I think that part would be more of a personal taste thing. To me, any DP with "dry" settings sounds lifeless. I think the CP4 settings only polluted the pianosound, where the P-155 settings would create a fake, but trustworthy brilliance, punch and resonance which almost made it sound like a real upright to me.

Originally Posted by garywong0923
Thanks for your sharing!!Håvard

I am considering to get one CP4 since many people give positive comments on this woody keyboard.

Do you think it's any difference on action comparing your P155 and CP4?(wooden and plastic key? ) Does it significantly to make you feel better on playing?

Hey Gary! Wooden keys was one of the main reasons I bought it, but for some reason I still dont enjoy the touch. That might also be because I'm not satisfied with the sound coming from it when playing, but I'd actually say there is almost a bit too much resistance from the keys... Sorry I'm pretty bad at explaining in english, and I'm sure this is much because of my personal taste - but I'd say it does not at all represent the grand piano touch that I was hoping for. And yes I actually prefer the plastic touch of the P-155, even after playing at the CP4 for weeks!

So Gary, I don't know if there is much more to say, hehe... I'm at least pretty excited to test the P-255 and Kawai MP11.


I've played the CP4, but in a band setting and I think the sound works well for that because it cuts through. Anything fatter gets lost in the other instruments. But for solo classical, not really sure. The action/feel was disappointing to me for the money. Not bad, just unimpressive.

Definitely try out the MP11....you will be impressed, I think. smile


private piano/voice teacher FT

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Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: Morodiene] #2431633
06/14/15 09:19 AM
06/14/15 09:19 AM
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Håvard Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Morodiene
I've played the CP4, but in a band setting and I think the sound works well for that because it cuts through. Anything fatter gets lost in the other instruments. But for solo classical, not really sure. The action/feel was disappointing to me for the money. Not bad, just unimpressive.

Definitely try out the MP11....you will be impressed, I think. smile
Thanks for the suggestion, to be honest I actually had the opportunity to try the MP11 for around 10 minutes ^^ It was setup with some exteremely loud blasting surround speakers, so I wasn't able to make up an opinion of the sound quality. I can at least remember the touch of it being LEAGUES ahead of the CP4. It was... ALMOST A REAL PIANO! And the bass and middle part had a really strong punch to it, which I really liked.

Yes, hope I can find it somewhere to try out again!

Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: Håvard] #2431655
06/14/15 11:13 AM
06/14/15 11:13 AM
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Havard, If you can't afford a Roland RD800, I strongly recommend you try out a KAWAI MP7. I own one, and chose it above the Yamaha CP4. I like the Roland very much, but could not afford it, however the MP7 sounds great, feels great and is feature-packed, and well priced. It is cheaper than a CP4.

smile


1993 Roland JV1000 76 note workstation synth with Pop and VE-GS1 expansion boards ] 1994 Roland JV1080 Multi-timbral sound module ] 1994 Roland KR4500 Intelligent Piano ] 2008 Korg MicroX sound module ] 2015 Kawai MP7 Digital Stage Piano
Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: Just Alan] #2431664
06/14/15 11:48 AM
06/14/15 11:48 AM
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Håvard Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Just Alan
Havard, If you can't afford a Roland RD800, I strongly recommend you try out a KAWAI MP7. I own one, and chose it above the Yamaha CP4. I like the Roland very much, but could not afford it, however the MP7 sounds great, feels great and is feature-packed, and well priced. It is cheaper than a CP4.

smile
Thanks Alan! Any specific reason to check out MP7, and not MP11?

Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: Håvard] #2431675
06/14/15 12:31 PM
06/14/15 12:31 PM
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There's not too much to play with in the sub CP4 price range that would be an improvement in touch and sound, but since these things are subjective try:

Kawai MP7
Yamaha MOX8
Yamaha CP40 or used CP50
Yamaha P255 - if you liked your P115 this may have been the no brainer upgrade
Roland RD300nx
Kawai ES100
Casio PX-5S
Casio PX-350

More expensive than CP4 would be Roland RD800, Kawai MP11, and Nord Stage 2 EX

Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: ElmerJFudd] #2431678
06/14/15 12:43 PM
06/14/15 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
...

Roland RD300nx

....


Wouldn't it be nice if there were an updated version, say a Roland RD400, that could fill this niche?


Keys: Yamaha GC2, Casio Privia PX-3, Roland RD800, Alesis VI61, Pianoteq 6.0
My motto: Play and Let Play!
Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: petes1] #2431682
06/14/15 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by petes1
Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
...
Roland RD300nx


Wouldn't it be nice if there were an updated version, say a Roland RD400, that could fill this niche?


I'm really surprised that Roland hasn't come out with this. I think it could be very competitive in that space.


Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800
Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: Håvard] #2431687
06/14/15 01:11 PM
06/14/15 01:11 PM
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Roland also doesn't make the VK-x or VR-xxx lines anymore. All they have to show for in portable B3 style organs is the low end VR-09. They also don't make high end workstation anymore to compete with the Motif XF or Korg Kronos. Just the mid-low end FA-08 and 06. They are very focused on the synth market at the moment.

Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: fizikisto] #2431710
06/14/15 02:32 PM
06/14/15 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by fizikisto
Originally Posted by petes1
Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
...
Roland RD300nx


Wouldn't it be nice if there were an updated version, say a Roland RD400, that could fill this niche?


I'm really surprised that Roland hasn't come out with this. I think it could be very competitive in that space.


I agree, and the RD300nx is really wanting in the action.


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Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: Håvard] #2431842
06/14/15 11:28 PM
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Perth, Western Australia
J
Just Alan Offline
Full Member
Just Alan  Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 133
Perth, Western Australia
Hi Havard,

The reasons I recommended a Kawai MP7 to check out, instead of a Kawai MP11 are:
- It is a lot cheaper than a MP11
- It has way more additional sounds on it, compared to a MP11
- It is significantly lighter than a MP11 (21kg vs 32kg)
- It has the same superb acoustic grand pianos, electric pianos etc as the MP11
- It also has the "virtual piano technician" just like the MP11

The MP11 has arguably one of the most authentic keyboard actions of the current DPs, but you will find that the keyboard action on the MP7 is still very good.

All the best with your choice.


1993 Roland JV1000 76 note workstation synth with Pop and VE-GS1 expansion boards ] 1994 Roland JV1080 Multi-timbral sound module ] 1994 Roland KR4500 Intelligent Piano ] 2008 Korg MicroX sound module ] 2015 Kawai MP7 Digital Stage Piano
Re: Disappointed after buying Yamaha CP4 [Re: David Farley] #2431894
06/15/15 01:43 AM
06/15/15 01:43 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,034
Glendale, Ca.
D
Dave Ferris Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Dave Ferris  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,034
Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted by David Farley
I've had mine for over a year and like it. I haven't noticed the sound problems you're having, nor have I made many adjustments. Over a long time, I decided I don't particularly like the CFX sound through headphones - it's just too harsh and overpowering. But the CFX sounds great through speakers. In the CF sample, I prefer the CD Dark setting.


I'm at just a tad over year here as well with the CP4, and for the most part, I still really like it.

I came from using the Nord Piano 88 and Nord Piano 2 for a little over 4 years. Most of the time I prefer the Yamaha, but there are certain musical instances where I miss the Nord. It would be nice to have both and choose according to the gig and my mood. I do think the Yamaha has a thicker sound, and doesn't thin out in high registers like the Nord.

I don't particularly care for the CP4 through phones either. It sounds much warmer and less harsh through my gigging speakers and di/ preamp set up--RCF TT08As /TT22As and JMK Audio JM-110 pre.

I do love the sound of the CF Grand on the CP5 with the phones. It has a more airy sound to it that I find attractive for jazz. Conversely, it loses something, sonically through speakers , even good ones. Still I mainly play it at home, while the CP4 sits in its case for the next gig.

Primarily I use the CP5's drum loops and play LH bass to back my vocals, when practicing for my solo gigs. The CP5 is nowhere near as sonically functional, live in a group setting , as the CP4 though.

If I were just going to play a DP at home, solo, with no playing in bands or schlepping it around , the MP11 would be my first choice.

The RD-800 intrigues me and at times I think of taking leap of faith on it. But for band playing I've had bad experiences in the past with Roland pianos sounding too transparent and not being present enough in the mix.

I'm fairly certain though the RD-800 would be a better solo gigging ax to use when I need the drum loops/LH bass over the CP5. It has a more refined, updated sound.

Basically there are pluses and minuses for each model. But I feel the CP4 is the best compromise with regard to the sound while playing in the band, its physical weight and build quality. At least for me and the way I play.

Make sure you have quality speakers , they can make or break everything with regard to tone.

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