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Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: NotaBene] #2430678
06/11/15 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by NotaBene
Yes of course you should get the best acoustic piano you can, be it bad relatively to better ones : if you plan to learn to play any piano you meet, then you'd positively benefit from that much more than playing on even the finest DP and nothing else. And I don't know a single piano teacher that would advise otherwise!

If your plan is to get a fine electronic device, it's a complete different story. And you'll have then a hard time being taken seriously by piano teachers and music schools..


How old are you?

Because everything you write - and I'm wary that immature may well seem a pejorative term - sounds like the misguided hubris of youth.

That and your foolhardy take on what teachers and schools will universally accept...

Here's the point that you, and so many of your ilk miss, in this selective bias, and pseudo elitism. Music is meant to be for all, without boundaries - it is meant to be inclusive. Whenever I talk to REAL musicians, I almost universally find that - it's only people who think they're musicians, but really just play certain instruments that tend to foist these arbitrary boundaries that suit their subjective views.

It's only the worse in the human condition that makes music divisive, with little juntas of self-selecting and self-affirming groups supposedy making the rules.

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Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: bennevis] #2430685
06/11/15 11:00 AM
06/11/15 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by bennevis
the let-off simulation, even though it's an anomaly of the acoustic action, is something that experienced pianists can utilize in their playing for controlled sotto voce playing - on good DPs as well as APs.

Are there any demonstrations of this on a good DP?

Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: danielp11] #2430686
06/11/15 11:02 AM
06/11/15 11:02 AM
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I see you take it seriously, sorry about that I thought you would laugh as I did, so yes you're right, it's bad to say things people don't like, I won't do it again I promise, and I shall respect whatever clever notion of yours, and now let's pray to the universality of music...

Where mostly physical resonant phenomenons bring us harmonies and joys through rhythm patterns and melodic lines...

None of which physical phenomenons actually are taking place in the digital world however.

As for elitism, indeed I have to confess, I believe offering every music apprentice the opportunity to learn on an acoustic instrument is the only way not to build up one generation of fools over the other.. Oh I'm a complete selective bias myself thinking I am a REAL human being and a musician by accident, but thankfully you opened my eyes about that, thank you, thank you so much!

Long live the optical sensor bringing us music universally!

We're drifting too far apart from the topic, so let's come back to it : will the Kawai CA97 be the star at the Proms this year?

Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: NotaBene] #2430687
06/11/15 11:06 AM
06/11/15 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by NotaBene
I see you take it seriously, sorry about that I thought you would laugh as I did, so yes you're right, it's bad to say things people don't like, I won't do it again I promise, and I shall respect whatever clever notion of yours, and now let's pray to the universality of music...

Where mostly physical resonant phenomenons bring us harmonies and joys through rhythm patterns and melodic lines...

None of which physical phenomenons actually are taking place in the digital world however.

As for elitism, indeed I have to confess, I believe offering every music apprentice the opportunity to learn on an acoustic instrument is the only way not to build up one generation of fools over the other.. Oh I'm a complete selective bias myself thinking I am a REAL human being and a musician by accident, but thankfully you opened my eyes about that, thank you, thank you so much!

Long live the optical sensor bringing us music universally!

We're drifting too far apart from the topic, so let's come back to it : will the Kawai CA97 be the star at the Proms this year?

That's pretty predictable - whenever somebody in a debate goes off the reservation, when pushed, it's always "I wasn't being serious, it's all a joke..."

You never answered the question - how old are you?

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Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: danielp11] #2430692
06/11/15 11:23 AM
06/11/15 11:23 AM
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Look, you only think your question is part of the equation because you misconducted yourself in the thread, then took it too personally, then didn't get the gentle irony of the reply pinpointing the fact, and now you're being insulting and inquisitive, do you really think it's meant to get any more absurd than that in the follow up?

Debate, what debate? The debate was to know whether the Kawai CA97 (extrapolated to DP generally speaking) was better than the best upright you can get for good money out there? It was sure pretty absurd right from the start, but for simply saying so with only very academic and wise points of view and after such a series of surprising positive absurd replies, I've been pretty badly bashed, and it really doesn't matter, but so what now, more of this sort of "debate"? I don't think so

It's been a pleasure, gentlemen, have a good day, absurdity won, I'm off this boat

Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: danielp11] #2430700
06/11/15 11:52 AM
06/11/15 11:52 AM
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Mission accomplished, apparently.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: MacMacMac] #2430764
06/11/15 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
A digital is not an acoustic, and an acoustic is not a digital. Not yet anyway.
Each has a place ... a different place.[Linked Image]

That picture is wrong in so many ways.


Kawai ES100 | Pianoteq 6 | Ivory II American Concert D | Steinberg UR22 | Sennheiser HD595
Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: JoeT] #2430802
06/11/15 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jtsn
That picture is wrong in so many ways.


What's wrong with it?


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: toddy] #2430805
06/11/15 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by toddy
Originally Posted by jtsn
That picture is wrong in so many ways.


What's wrong with it?

The picture needs to be viewed via a mirror.

(We are in USA, not UK wink ).


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: NotaBene] #2430807
06/11/15 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by NotaBene
Yes of course you should get the best acoustic piano you can, be it bad relatively to better ones : if you plan to learn to play any piano you meet, then you'd positively benefit from that much more than playing on even the finest DP and nothing else. And I don't know a single piano teacher that would advise otherwise!

If your plan is to get a fine electronic device, it's a complete different story. And you'll have then a hard time being taken seriously by piano teachers and music schools...


Not to feed this gobbledygook at all....but counter to this point, I know hundreds of Piano teachers and a major Canadian examining body (Conservatory Canada) that allow piano examinations up to associate level to be taken on certain models of Roland Digital Pianos (HP504, DP-90e and above.)

After an exhaustive evaluation period that included every aspect of piano learning, our instruments were certified several years ago.

So, although you don't know them, you're wrong. Dead wrong.

Jay


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: danielp11] #2430895
06/12/15 02:54 AM
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Oh yeah, and what are you selling btw?

Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: NotaBene] #2430896
06/12/15 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted by NotaBene
Oh yeah, and what are you selling btw?

And how old are you, and how long have you been playing?

Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: danielp11] #2430908
06/12/15 04:10 AM
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Let me rephrase, Jay Roland, namely the official rep on this forum of the one of the only digital piano brand selling absolutely no acoustic piano at all, unlike Kawai and Yamaha, is coming after the show to indicate to the last reader that yes, hundreds of music teachers he knows of allow digital piano etc. so that finally I'm wrong. Dead wrong.

Allow. Not encourage. And independent music teachers have to make a living indeed, and they must be really really very very happy to "allow" digital pianos in their business... that's for sure!... But never mind.

So what is Jay Roland selling again, to be perfectly clear? Oh yes, he's selling digital pianos, it's the core of his business, within a corporation that appears to have great financial troubles at the present times : Roland Corporation.

As I understand the argument, he's one of the most weak and also completely inconclusive I've ever read, and secondly, I really don't understand the interest the rep of such a major maker in such a topic with such an argument would have to intervene in such a position of the thread, for in the mind of the reader in the end and inevitably, it could but backfire.

Is this clear enough? I'm sure Jay Roland will reply something fine of his to justify whatever he feels the need to, I simply take good note the rep of Kawai didn't came here to say moot about his products, despite the fact that one of them is cited in the title.. Now that he is mentioned as well he might as well reply while we're at it. The Casio rep as well could come and have a word about how dead wrong I and the other 90% of pianists and teachers are about the point discussed, and it's really too bad Yamaha doesn't have one, for the more fools we are the better the party!

So the sales are so desperately not going well in the Roland digital piano world then?

Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: NotaBene] #2430909
06/12/15 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted by NotaBene
Let me rephrase, Jay Roland, namely the official rep on this forum of the one of the only digital piano brand selling absolutely no acoustic piano at all, unlike Kawai and Yamaha, is coming after the show to indicate to the last reader that yes, hundreds of music teachers he knows of allow digital piano etc. so that finally I'm wrong. Dead wrong.

Allow. Not encourage. And independent music teachers have to make a living indeed, and they must be really really very very happy to "allow" digital pianos in their business... that's for sure!... But never mind.

So what is Jay Roland selling again, to be perfectly clear? Oh yes, he's selling digital pianos, it's the core of his business, within a corporation that appears to have great financial troubles at the present times : Roland Corporation.

As I understand the argument, he's one of the most weak and also completely inconclusive I've ever read, and secondly, I really don't understand the interest the rep of such a major maker in such a topic with such an argument would have to intervene in such a position of the thread, for in the mind of the reader in the end and inevitably, it could but backfire.

Is this clear enough? I'm sure Jay Roland will reply something fine of his to justify whatever he feels the need to, I simply take good note the rep of Kawai didn't came here to say moot about his products, despite the fact that one of them is cited in the title.. Now that he is mentioned as well he might as well reply while we're at it. The Casio rep as well could come and have a word about how dead wrong I and the other 90% of pianists and teachers are about the point discussed, and it's really too bad Yamaha doesn't have one, for the more fools we are the better the party!

So the sales are so desperately not going well in the Roland digital piano world then?

Quite patently you've not been here long - but perhaps more importantly, actually read forum contributions of the very person you'd choose to slate.

Nice going there.

And I'll repeat - not rephrase - a question you seem quite happy to duck, all the while feeling empowered to criticise other forum contributors that contribute more than your naive and ignorant rhetoric - that truly serves no more than polemic. Once again, for the cheap seats: how old are you and how long have you been playing?

Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: danielp11] #2430912
06/12/15 04:48 AM
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Lester Burnham you don't know about that that and this needs not to become personal at all. I note though that, after all this yesterday, you now try the intimidating tone, I wonder what's next.

About rep in forums. Roland long habit not to communicate at all with its market bit the dust at the financial crisis acme a couple of years back, and this is when Jay Roland magically appeared here on pianoworld, ready to send *New GEAR alerts* and tell us all how good the new Roland products were. It's common after sales policy, it works when it doesn't backfire. Other brands do it as well, it's often informative, it's always *with a disclaimer of course!* completely and solely product and market oriented, and certainly it's something seen by corporations as a necessary evil compromise in this Internet world.

But don't you suggest something else, Jay Roland would be here only to give his sincere opinion? Why would he sign with the Corp. tag then? lol

So the rep of one of the digital piano maker that doesn't build acoustic piano at all, comes in a thread where it is discussed if digital pianos are not better than good acoustic piano, to declare that "it's well the case proven by the fact it's otherwise dead wrong", and the only person finding this absolutely normal is the one keeping asking stereotypy fashion about the age and qualification of the debaters?

Ok, I think the reader in his right mind has now every element required to decide on his own, no need to bug this forum any longer, I guess...

Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: NotaBene] #2430917
06/12/15 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by NotaBene
Lester Burnham you don't know about that that and this needs not to become personal at all. I note though that, after all this yesterday, you now try the intimidating tone, I wonder what's next.


I haven't said anything in an intimidating tone - so don't try playing the victim.

You went after one of the forum contributors who contributes more than simply advocacy of the company he works for - just like Kawai James and his contributions.

All I asked for - which I note you duck once more - is simply how old you are, and how long you've been playing.

And why? Because it has pertinence to your absolutist, hubristic and polemic contributions to this thread.

If you're 50 years old and have been playing 30 years, then other readers may perhaps cut you more slack, or treat what you say with more consideration. If you're 18 years old and have been playing 2 years, then likewise, people may well interpret that in an alternative way.

That's not to say that merely age and time served demand respect or consideration, but somebody who may have only a relative 5 minutes of experience and think they've got the whole world completely understood, is more likely to be proud and heading for a fall, than enlightened by such brief experience.

Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: NotaBene] #2430919
06/12/15 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by NotaBene
Ok, I think the reader in his right mind has now every element required to decide on his own, no need to bug this forum any longer, I guess...

Decisions made long before you squandered your time here shovelling out bogus stats, mangled logic and hearsay.

Adaptability is itself of questionable value. Youtube has all but replaced 'traditional' means of showcasing one's own talents. So if we're able to reach a high level of skill on our well-designed DPs - and there's no reason to suppose they won't continue to improve - why leave the house?

Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: danielp11] #2430920
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Hi there. I've been following this thread from a certain distance. As some of you know, I have experience with (and views about) both sides of the coin here. However I don't think the last few pages of this particular thread are helping a lot in assessing the original question.

I can only wish that everybody who wants to make up her or his mind about the relative merits of a piano such as the Kawai CA97 and of a good upright piano takes the time, and gets the chance, to play both for an extended period of time. Your senses - and a consideration of your needs - will tell you what is better, or best, for you.

There is one point in the discussion that deserves emphasis though: To adapt to a musical instrument, and to get most out of it, will need time and experience. It is a skill that needs to be learned and developed. So a brief encounter with an instrument (digital or acoustic) might not tell you right away what you can actually get out of it in the long run. Hence one question to be asked in this matter is: Which piano will give me the best possibilities to *develop* my skills?


Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: maurus] #2430921
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Originally Posted by maurus
Hi there. I've been following this thread from a certain distance. As some of you know, I have experience with (and views about) both sides of the coin here. However I don't think the last few pages of this particular thread are helping a lot in assessing the original question.

I can only wish that everybody who wants to make up her or his mind about the relative merits of a piano such as the Kawai CA97 and of a good upright piano takes the time, and gets the chance, to play both for an extended period of time. Your senses - and a consideration of your needs - will tell you what is better, or best, for you.

There is one point in the discussion that deserves emphasis though: To adapt to a musical instrument, and to get most out of it, will need time and experience. It is a skill that needs to be learned and developed. So a brief encounter with an instrument (digital or acoustic) might not tell you right away what you can actually get out of it in the long run. Hence one question to be asked in this matter is: Which piano will give me the best possibilities to *develop* my skills?


If my piano experience is anything to go by - then I'd say, playing a variety of different pianos from time-to-time.

As for practice - if the instrument is competent - responds to variance in touch, in a realistic fashion, and an action that's representative - I think the notion that you can only really flourish by spending the majority of your time playing an acoustic, is deeply flawed, and simply represents the opinion of some.

Because some of the factors or differences that are often mentioned, are, often, true enough, present. But they are largely overplayed as to their significance and impact in terms of playing, practice and improvement.

Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: maurus] #2430925
06/12/15 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by maurus
Hi there. I've been following this thread from a certain distance. As some of you know, I have experience with (and views about) both sides of the coin here. However I don't think the last few pages of this particular thread are helping a lot in assessing the original question.

I can only wish that everybody who wants to make up her or his mind about the relative merits of a piano such as the Kawai CA97 and of a good upright piano takes the time, and gets the chance, to play both for an extended period of time. Your senses - and a consideration of your needs - will tell you what is better, or best, for you.

There is one point in the discussion that deserves emphasis though: To adapt to a musical instrument, and to get most out of it, will need time and experience. It is a skill that needs to be learned and developed. So a brief encounter with an instrument (digital or acoustic) might not tell you right away what you can actually get out of it in the long run.

That's fine but how do you reconcile para 2, which in effect advocates a brief encounter, with para 3 which points to the inadequacy of such?

That is why posters here are looking for insights from others.

Quote
Hence one question to be asked in this matter is: Which piano will give me the best possibilities to *develop* my skills?

How would you go about finding the answer to that question? How does the beginner specify target skills?

Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: danielp11] #2430931
06/12/15 06:43 AM
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Quote
Hence one question to be asked in this matter is: Which piano will give me the best possibilities to *develop* my skills?


If you want to develop your dexterity, be able to play for hours on your own, explore the digital and computer possibilities, compose and record music, move easily your instrument to a gig or a rehearsal, even play along with soloists or singers, entertain your family and friends on Saturday evening or Sunday afternoon, etc., a digital piano is a good choice indeed, and some are convincing up to a point.

But there is another story to piano playing, the fact that you have to learn to master a complex mechanism throwing hammers at strings via a series of counter intuitive mechanical relays. You cannot develop this skill on a digital piano, and if you don't practice on acoustic piano at all, you'll be able to play the note very well certainly, but you'll have the most difficult times mastering the mechanics of an acoustic piano, you'll find it unpleasant and unsatisfactory on most acoustic pianos, and you'll blame it likely on the piano, when it is only you're missing one part of the skill required to play the piano. The complex motor skills to balance not only velocity, but weight, timing, and a sense of probability, isn't required on digital piano. Playing acoustic piano, you need so to say to find a very precise equilibrium in your approach to the keyboard so that the piano renders the intention you put into the music. On a digital piano, you express easily myriads of nuances, because the only velocity is at stake. On an acoustic piano, especially on the every day piano, the one you'll encounter the most, each stroke is a delicate probabilistic bet which cannot be won with dexterity skill only : the mechanics doesn't respond every time the same way, the factors are too many to be mastered with only the velocity parameter. Developing this skill to play reliably in the nuance range you're to express, and with regularity and consistence, which is what piano specifically is about, requires you to play and practice as much as you can on an acoustic piano. The progress you'll achieve on an acoustic piano will immediately mirror onto a digital piano, but the reverse is not true, because there are so many factors not taken into account by the digital piano, that it's as if you were just learning to play notes in comparison.

Once you've reach to the point where you measure finely your motor skills to be able to take control of an acoustic piano in minutes, you can play any piano you meet, acoustic or digital, with joy and success after the few first measures where you weight in the mechanics to adapt. If you only play a digital piano, you never come to this point : if the acoustic piano is very precise and regulated perfectly, you'll be fine maybe, but in any other case, which is the most common, you won't be able to find the right equilibrium right away or at all, and the experience will be so painful to your feeling you can play the piano, that you mostly won't like it at all, leading you eventually to believe a digital piano is a much better instrument than a real piano. Which is a common mistake due to a false perspective on the subject.

That's why, to learn to play the piano, you need a piano, even if to learn to play the notes, a digital piano is certainly good enough, and overall more practical.

The people arguing they only play the finest pianos or have no difficulties adapting to acoustic piano while they learned it all on digital pianos, may simply fool themselves, be very lucky with their skills and living conditions, or lie purely about the nature or what playing the piano really is.

But you might as well decide never to bother with acoustic pianos, and play only digital pianos, or your digital piano, and live a happy musical life, it's your musical life, it makes no difference but for you. After all, they are saxophone forums out there that are specialized in digital saxophones, where digital saxophonists don't get it neither there is an entire world of skills they bypass entirely not playing the saxophone traditionally at all. It doesn't hurt the other saxophonists at all, they just joke about it.

Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: dire tonic] #2430932
06/12/15 06:56 AM
06/12/15 06:56 AM
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maurus Offline
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Originally Posted by dire tonic
That's fine but how do you reconcile para 2, which in effect advocates a brief encounter, with para 3 which points to the inadequacy of such?

Read again. I said "for an extended period of time" and I meant it.

Originally Posted by dire tonic
How would you go about finding the answer to that question [i.e. how can I develop my skills]? How does the beginner specify target skills?

By talking to her/his teacher and other experienced musicians. And by self reflection.


Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.
Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: NotaBene] #2430933
06/12/15 06:57 AM
06/12/15 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by NotaBene
you have to learn to master a complex mechanism throwing hammers at strings via a series of counter intuitive mechanical relays.

I just press the key down, works every time.

Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: maurus] #2430936
06/12/15 07:09 AM
06/12/15 07:09 AM
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dire tonic Offline
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Originally Posted by maurus
Originally Posted by dire tonic
That's fine but how do you reconcile para 2, which in effect advocates a brief encounter, with para 3 which points to the inadequacy of such?

Read again. I said "for an extended period of time" and I meant it.

But it's meaningless. One person's brief encounter is another's extended period - hard to know exactly how long you mean in either case. Let's try units of time.

1 day? = bore a friend or shop assistant witless.
2 days = try everyone's patience beyond endurance.
1 week = hire an instrument? Costs?
1 month = buy one or the other? That puts us back to the OPs question.
What did you mean by extended period?

Originally Posted by maurus
Originally Posted by dire tonic
How would you go about finding the answer to that question [i.e. how can I develop my skills]? How does the beginner specify target skills?

By talking to her/his teacher and other experienced musicians. And by self reflection.

Putting aside the difficulty of reflecting on the unknown, which skills would you say are beyond the scope of a DP to support?

Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: danielp11] #2430939
06/12/15 07:26 AM
06/12/15 07:26 AM
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Quote
I just press the key down, works every time.


That's when you play mezzo forte to forte, chances are it plays every time you press the keys indeed. But from the faintest pianissimo to mezzo forte, and also with the pedal to produce the entire range of floating profound suspensions, with various positions of the pedal, accentuating such or such note or overtone, reaching duration without volume, producing strong or progressive release effects, etc., these are the real nuances of the piano, you cannot reach any of this with the finest digital pianos even. And not only can't you produce these true nuances with a digital piano, but you cannot learn to play these on a digital piano, and if you don't pay attention, you might as well not even suspect there is such a gap between digital and acoustic piano.

And you know it (or you don't?), which is sad for the debate, you're acting as if there was no point at all, and to beginners or readers passing by, it is certainly misguiding...

Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: NotaBene] #2430940
06/12/15 07:31 AM
06/12/15 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by NotaBene
Quote
I just press the key down, works every time.


That's when you play mezzo forte to forte, chances are it plays every time you press the keys indeed. But from the faintest pianissimo to mezzo forte, and also with the pedal to produce the entire range of floating profound suspensions, with various positions of the pedal, accentuating such or such note or overtone, reaching duration without volume, producing strong or progressive release effects, etc., these are the real nuances of the piano, you cannot reach any of this with the finest digital pianos even. And not only can't you produce these true nuances with a digital piano, but you cannot learn to play these on a digital piano, and if you don't pay attention, you might as well not even suspect there is such a gap between digital and acoustic piano.

And you know it (or you don't?), which is sad for the debate, you're acting as if there was no point at all, and to beginners or readers passing by, it is certainly misguiding...

I get all the above using fingers and feet pressing at various velocities. Have you tried that yourself?

Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: danielp11] #2430941
06/12/15 07:34 AM
06/12/15 07:34 AM
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maurus Offline
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dire tonic, an extended period, for me and in this context, would be several weeks if not months, depending on the amount of playing. Imagine you own one of these instruments and have a friend owning the other. That would be the ideal situation. Actually the original poster is lucky to be in such a situation.

For many DP owners it is difficult to get extended access to good acoustic pianos. This is a problem, and a deplorable situation.

Where is the limit in developing skills on a DP? Well actually Notabene had a couple of points in his posts above. If you ask me, there is one word that sums up nicely where all DPs that I have encountered so far have limited me: expressivity. On good acoustic pianos, my own technique is the limit. On DPs, even after years of use, I feel limited by the instrument. But that's me. YMMV.

To repeat what I have stated elsewhere: DPs are good compromises for many situations, and they can do certain things no acoustic piano can do (hit a button and change the sound is an obvious example, a less obvious one that intrigues me quite a bit is that some DPs allow easy changes of temperaments and (micro)tuning - I neither have the skills nor the time to do this on my grand piano).

Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: maurus] #2430944
06/12/15 07:47 AM
06/12/15 07:47 AM
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Lester Burnham Offline
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Originally Posted by maurus
For many DP owners it is difficult to get extended access to good acoustic pianos. This is a problem, and a deplorable situation.

For many acoustic owners, it is difficult to get extended access to good acoustic pianos too.

And has been that way for quite some time.

As to the expression available in digital pianos, I do truly question the voracity of such claims. Are you, or others, truly trying to contend that contemporary digital pianos cannot detect and represent a reasonably comprehensive degree of note expression?

Some of the pianos I took exams on, were, how shall I put this displomatically - no more than merely adequate, if that. Utterly uninspiring, often quite inconsistent.

Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: danielp11] #2430946
06/12/15 07:50 AM
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Re: Is a good acoustic upright worse than a top digital Kawai CA97? [Re: danielp11] #2430947
06/12/15 07:53 AM
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It seems you posted your motto but forgot the message..

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