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Re: MP11 dead on arrival
ando #2427235 05/31/15 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ando

I agree, Kawai is a leader in the innovation stakes. I guess as long as their service backup continues to be excellent, people will forgive the problems that come up.

I had no idea of any QC issues with any DP brand until I came upon PW (just after I bought my DP). Probably naïvely, I just assumed that whatever I bought would be reliable, as reliable as all the other electronic stuff I had then (hi-fi separates, TV, DVD and video recorder, cassette-tape Walkman, SLR film cameras - I had no computer then) - which had been working with no problems for well over a decade; in the case of my Canon cameras and lenses, over two decades of hard and regular use. None of them had ever let me down.

I didn't buy a Kawai, but the stuff I've been reading here would have totally put me off buying one: my tiny apartment is four floors up a narrow staircase, and there is no lift (elevator). Anything big I buy would have to stay put. People here have done minor 'repairs' on their DPs to avoid hassle, even when still under guarantee; I had, and still have, absolutely no idea how I'd go about doing diagnostic tests and repairs on my DP.

When I was unable to put in the upgrades into my DP, and instead nearly fried the electronics in my botched attempts, Roland sent their own van and two strong drivers to collect my DP to take back to their HQ for repairs and to install the upgrades - the same people who delivered it several months previously. They knew the score, but I still had to pack the 84 lb slab myself back into its box for them to carry it downstairs from my apartment (and then unpack and put it back on its stand when I got it back).

Over five years on, and now out of warranty, I've never had to repeat the ordeal. It's not something I would ever care to repeat.......


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
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Re: MP11 dead on arrival
bennevis #2427259 05/31/15 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by bennevis
I had no idea of any QC issues with any DP brand until I came upon PW ...I didn't buy a Kawai, but the stuff I've been reading here would have totally put me off buying one... People here have done minor 'repairs' on their DPs to avoid hassle, even when still under guarantee...


No doubt, some of the stuff you read here definitely scares folks - which is understandable since the experiences being shared are presumably all based on facts. That's why it's helpful sometimes to maintain some perspective.

Notwithstanding my own minor repair to my MP7, frankly I've spent a whole lot more time working under the hood of our Boston grand piano (with tuning, etc). And my brother devoted many months to tweaking his harpsichord, after he built it.

I suspect that tweaking one's musical gear is a long-established tradition that dates back to Bach's time... even after he had "well-tempered" those scales of ours. smile

- One Watt

Re: MP11 dead on arrival
OneWatt #2427264 05/31/15 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by OneWatt
frankly I've spent a whole lot more time working under the hood of our Boston grand piano (with tuning, etc). And my brother devoted many months to tweaking his harpsichord, after he built it.

I suspect that tweaking one's musical gear is a long-established tradition that dates back to Bach's time... even after he had "well-tempered" those scales of ours. smile


I have no problems 'tweaking' mechanical contraptions - a few decades ago, when I was working at a place which had an ancient, clapped-out grand in its common room, I bought a tuning fork and tuning wrench, and set to work on it: removing the broken strings, tuning it, adjusting the actions. All without recourse to any help from a book, or advice from any tech (obviously, the internet was still decades from being invented).......

I even discovered that by tuning it to B flat = 440 (instead of A), it kept its tuning much longer. I 'celebrated' by playing Liszt's Liebestraum No.3 on it, once it was sufficiently in tune thumb.

But anything with microchips is totally out of my league......


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: MP11 dead on arrival
bennevis #2427282 05/31/15 02:35 PM
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It is out of anyone's league, simply because you cant touch it anymore.
Even the few experts, who would know the architectures of those customized microchips and be able to reverse engineer the software, would carefully check, if it would be worth the effort.

On the other hand, we all have payed for for a working product ...

Re: MP11 dead on arrival
bennevis #2427289 05/31/15 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by bennevis
... I 'celebrated' by playing Liszt's Liebestraum No.3 on it, once it was sufficiently in tune thumb.

But anything with microchips is totally out of my league......


Hats off to you, sir! While I'm comfortable tuning the piano, opening up electronics, and even building hand-crafted instruments, I'm afraid Liszt's Liebestraum No.3 is currently out of MY league. wink

Re: MP11 dead on arrival
newbert #2427467 05/31/15 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by newbert
... Based upon people's experience with Kawai, if a unit is going to fail is it usually a case of DOA? Or do units fail often enough later on so that purchasing an extended warranty would be advisable? ...


I think that's my point. We shouldn't worry whether our product to be delivered is going to have some issue; it just kills the joy of spending. What we bought should come to us in tip-top condition.

I recently bought 3 new Dell 24" monitors. I was thinking that the chance of getting one with a dead or super-bright pixel might be on the high-side; since I'm getting 3 monitors. Guess how many of such pixels were found? None.

There really shouldn't be any excuse; like the product was man-handled during delivery. My Dell monitors were packed so meticulously that I was perspiring so much while trying to get them out. 90% of my effort in setting them up is spent in getting the monitors out of the boxes.

To me, just like power is nothing without control, innovation is nothing without reliability.

Re: MP11 dead on arrival
ando #2427521 06/01/15 03:38 AM
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[/quote] I'm still tempted by the MP7, despite what I've said. It's between the RD800 and the MP7 for me. Actually, I'd like to have the MP11 but I'm really bummed that it's missing all the voices that the MP7 has.[/quote]

Ando, For me, the choice was between a Roland RD800, and Yamaha CP4 and a Kawai MP7. There were aspects of each of them that I really liked. The Roland was the most expensive, and the MP7 was the cheapest, and yet the MP7 can do just about everything the RD800 can do, and more. The Yamaha CP4 was the lightest to carry, but the already good Yamaha piano sounds just really didn't seem to have been improved upon from previous models. I have a friend who loves his CP4, but the keys have become rather uneven when you look along the top of them.

I was like you initially, favouring the MP11, but it is heavy (32kgs) and as you have realised, does not have all the extra sounds that are on the MP7. The Kawai product manager in Sydney could not guarantee a perfect keyboard, but he did say that Kawai is committed to customer service. I have found that to be the case, however, as you can tell from reading the PW forums, there are many Kawai owners who have experienced problems, which can be rather disconcerting, but Kawai's strong customer service helps make up for that. A few months ago I helped a friend by a Casio PX5-S. I've got to say that I was very impressed with it's all-round capabilities, and how light it is, and great price. Despite a few niggly issues with my MP7, the more I play it, the more I really like it, and I have the peace of mind of good backup and a 5 year warranty. Again I say, I wish you well in your choice.


1993 Roland JV1000 76 note workstation synth with Pop and VE-GS1 expansion boards ] 1994 Roland JV1080 Multi-timbral sound module ] 1994 Roland KR4500 Intelligent Piano ] 2008 Korg MicroX sound module ] 2015 Kawai MP7 Digital Stage Piano
Re: MP11 dead on arrival
Just Alan #2427549 06/01/15 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Just Alan
[/quote] I'm still tempted by the MP7, despite what I've said. It's between the RD800 and the MP7 for me. Actually, I'd like to have the MP11 but I'm really bummed that it's missing all the voices that the MP7 has.


Ando, For me, the choice was between a Roland RD800, and Yamaha CP4 and a Kawai MP7. There were aspects of each of them that I really liked. The Roland was the most expensive, and the MP7 was the cheapest, and yet the MP7 can do just about everything the RD800 can do, and more. The Yamaha CP4 was the lightest to carry, but the already good Yamaha piano sounds just really didn't seem to have been improved upon from previous models. I have a friend who loves his CP4, but the keys have become rather uneven when you look along the top of them.

I was like you initially, favouring the MP11, but it is heavy (32kgs) and as you have realised, does not have all the extra sounds that are on the MP7. The Kawai product manager in Sydney could not guarantee a perfect keyboard, but he did say that Kawai is committed to customer service. I have found that to be the case, however, as you can tell from reading the PW forums, there are many Kawai owners who have experienced problems, which can be rather disconcerting, but Kawai's strong customer service helps make up for that. A few months ago I helped a friend by a Casio PX5-S. I've got to say that I was very impressed with it's all-round capabilities, and how light it is, and great price. Despite a few niggly issues with my MP7, the more I play it, the more I really like it, and I have the peace of mind of good backup and a 5 year warranty. Again I say, I wish you well in your choice. [/quote]

Thanks Alan, and good to get your thoughts. I think I need to go play them again and think about what I value most in a DP. I do sometimes get sidetracked about having features that I don't end up even using. Narrowing it down to 2 models makes it not too much of a decision. Hopefully the winner will clearly emerge next time I play them. Luckily there's a shop near me that carries them both. Cheers.

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