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PHA-4 Standard vs. tri-sensor scaled hammer action II #2427420
05/31/15 06:59 PM
05/31/15 06:59 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 125
Eindhoven, Netherlands
Cue Zephyr Offline OP
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Cue Zephyr  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 125
Eindhoven, Netherlands
Howdy folks,

That's Roland's PHA-4 Standard vs. Casio's tri-sensor scaled hammer action II.

Plain and simple, best key action according to you.

Thanks!

CZ


Casio Privia Pro PX-5S, Focusrite Saffire Pro40, Steinberg UR22, KRK RP6 G2, JBL LSR305
Guitar, mandolin and banjo player, hobbyist producer.
on YouTube
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Re: PHA-4 Standard vs. tri-sensor scaled hammer action II [Re: Cue Zephyr] #2427501
06/01/15 03:11 AM
06/01/15 03:11 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,383
UK
S
spanishbuddha Offline
3000 Post Club Member
spanishbuddha  Offline
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S

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,383
UK
Originally Posted by Cue Zephyr
Howdy folks,

That's Roland's PHA-4 Standard vs. Casio's tri-sensor scaled hammer action II.

Plain and simple, best key action according to you.

Thanks!

CZ

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, in this case best is in the finger and ear of the beholder.

Re: PHA-4 Standard vs. tri-sensor scaled hammer action II [Re: Cue Zephyr] #2427510
06/01/15 03:53 AM
06/01/15 03:53 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 125
Eindhoven, Netherlands
Cue Zephyr Offline OP
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Cue Zephyr  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 125
Eindhoven, Netherlands
My issue with that is that I rely upon the knowledge and experience of those that have spent a considerable amount of time with real pianos, which I haven't.


Casio Privia Pro PX-5S, Focusrite Saffire Pro40, Steinberg UR22, KRK RP6 G2, JBL LSR305
Guitar, mandolin and banjo player, hobbyist producer.
on YouTube
Re: PHA-4 Standard vs. tri-sensor scaled hammer action II [Re: Cue Zephyr] #2427516
06/01/15 04:15 AM
06/01/15 04:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 135
Perth, Western Australia
J
Just Alan Offline
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Just Alan  Offline
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J

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 135
Perth, Western Australia
Roland PHA-4 is very nice. I think it has a slightly better response than CASIO's triple strike RHII, however, I recommend you compare it with the KAWAI RH2 triple sensor keybed found on the ES7 and MP7. On the Casio (e.g. Casio PX5-S which I like very much), the keys have to come up further to reach the middle sensor before you can replay the note, whereas on the Kawai, you don't have to let the key come up as far....great for fast stuff and trills. Spanishbuddha is correct though...it all comes down to personal taste.


1993 Roland JV1000 76 note workstation synth with Pop and VE-GS1 expansion boards ] 1994 Roland JV1080 Multi-timbral sound module ] 1994 Roland KR4500 Intelligent Piano ] 2008 Korg MicroX sound module ] 2015 Kawai MP7 Digital Stage Piano
Re: PHA-4 Standard vs. tri-sensor scaled hammer action II [Re: Cue Zephyr] #2427526
06/01/15 05:12 AM
06/01/15 05:12 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 125
Eindhoven, Netherlands
Cue Zephyr Offline OP
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Cue Zephyr  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 125
Eindhoven, Netherlands
Alan, you're talking about the PHA-4 Standard, right? Because sure enough, the DP-90Se that I played had nicer action than Casio (I played the PX-5S for a bit), but it has a different PHA-4 action and the thing's more than triple the price of the PX-5S and more than double the price of the Roland F-130R that I also played.

Unfortunately, only two large German stores carry Kawai products and I have no way of getting there. They're way beyond my budget, also. frown

I'm aware of the middle sensor thing, as PianoManChuck mentions it in his VPC-1 vs. PX-5S key action comparison video.


Casio Privia Pro PX-5S, Focusrite Saffire Pro40, Steinberg UR22, KRK RP6 G2, JBL LSR305
Guitar, mandolin and banjo player, hobbyist producer.
on YouTube
Re: PHA-4 Standard vs. tri-sensor scaled hammer action II [Re: Just Alan] #2427527
06/01/15 05:12 AM
06/01/15 05:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 640
L
Lester Burnham Offline
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Lester Burnham  Offline
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L

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 640
Originally Posted by Just Alan
Roland PHA-4 is very nice. I think it has a slightly better response than CASIO's triple strike RHII, however, I recommend you compare it with the KAWAI RH2 triple sensor keybed found on the ES7 and MP7. On the Casio (e.g. Casio PX5-S which I like very much), the keys have to come up further to reach the middle sensor before you can replay the note, whereas on the Kawai, you don't have to let the key come up as far....great for fast stuff and trills. Spanishbuddha is correct though...it all comes down to personal taste.

That test for the fast replay of notes (after seeing pianomanchuck compare the latest Casio action with the VPC1) I compared with my acoustic piano. I found that my Casio (with the tri-sensor action) was ever-so-slightly more easy to do fast repeated notes or trills, compared with my acoustic.

There wasn't much in it - and I know there will be some variances between acoustics, but it made me think Casio hadn't done a bad job with it.

Re: PHA-4 Standard vs. tri-sensor scaled hammer action II [Re: Cue Zephyr] #2427679
06/01/15 05:08 PM
06/01/15 05:08 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,360
M
maurus Offline
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maurus  Offline
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M

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,360
Originally Posted by Cue Zephyr
Unfortunately, only two large German stores carry Kawai products...

Not true of course - or is there something I don't understand? confused

Re: PHA-4 Standard vs. tri-sensor scaled hammer action II [Re: Lester Burnham] #2427681
06/01/15 05:15 PM
06/01/15 05:15 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 125
Eindhoven, Netherlands
Cue Zephyr Offline OP
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Cue Zephyr  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 125
Eindhoven, Netherlands
The two other main music stores in my country (i.e. not Germany) don't carry Kawai.

Originally Posted by Lester Burnham
There wasn't much in it - and I know there will be some variances between acoustics, but it made me think Casio hadn't done a bad job with it.

Way cool. Thanks for sharing! wink

Last edited by Cue Zephyr; 06/01/15 05:16 PM.

Casio Privia Pro PX-5S, Focusrite Saffire Pro40, Steinberg UR22, KRK RP6 G2, JBL LSR305
Guitar, mandolin and banjo player, hobbyist producer.
on YouTube
Re: PHA-4 Standard vs. tri-sensor scaled hammer action II [Re: Cue Zephyr] #2427699
06/01/15 07:20 PM
06/01/15 07:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 21
N
NighhhT Offline
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NighhhT  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 21
I havent played on a PHA-4 Standard DP, so I cant judge.

Im between Advanced Hammer Action IV-F and Tri-sensor scaled hammer action II

Re: PHA-4 Standard vs. tri-sensor scaled hammer action II [Re: Cue Zephyr] #2427718
06/01/15 09:15 PM
06/01/15 09:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 135
Perth, Western Australia
J
Just Alan Offline
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Just Alan  Offline
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J

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 135
Perth, Western Australia
Hi Cue Zephyr,

I'm sorry, when I made a comment about Roland's PHA4 action, I was basing it on my experience of playing the Roland RD800. In hindsight, I think that is referred to as PHA4 Concert Action, or premium action. I have not played PHA4 Standard, and didn't realise it existed. From a quick search of the internet, it seems to be promoted by Roland as a NEW action, but there is some doubt as to how new, and how it compares to PHA4 premium action. Some people feel that it may be lighter in touch compared to PHA4 premium.

Sorry for the confusion. It is a pity you can't get your hands on a Kawai to try....in particular the MP7. The actions on a Roland RD800 and a Kawai MP7 are both VERY good.


1993 Roland JV1000 76 note workstation synth with Pop and VE-GS1 expansion boards ] 1994 Roland JV1080 Multi-timbral sound module ] 1994 Roland KR4500 Intelligent Piano ] 2008 Korg MicroX sound module ] 2015 Kawai MP7 Digital Stage Piano
Re: PHA-4 Standard vs. tri-sensor scaled hammer action II [Re: Cue Zephyr] #2427782
06/02/15 02:40 AM
06/02/15 02:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 217
Norway
T
torhu Offline
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torhu  Offline
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T

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 217
Norway
PHA4 is basically two different actions now, Standard being the replacement for the lightweight, cheaper Ivory Feel-G, and Concert/Premium an improved version of the PHAIII (aka. Ivory Feel-S). I really wish they wouldn't use confusing naming for something so important, though.


Roland RD-700NX // Casio PX-5S // Galaxy Vintage D
Re: PHA-4 Standard vs. tri-sensor scaled hammer action II [Re: Cue Zephyr] #2427821
06/02/15 07:32 AM
06/02/15 07:32 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 125
Eindhoven, Netherlands
Cue Zephyr Offline OP
Full Member
Cue Zephyr  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 125
Eindhoven, Netherlands
It's all good. Not long before I started this thread I thought PHA-4 was one aciton, just like that of Casio, until somebody mentioned the Standard/Premium/Concert keywords.

I could try an RD800 if I wanted to, but it doesn't make much sense as it's more than twice what I'm about to shell out. wink


Casio Privia Pro PX-5S, Focusrite Saffire Pro40, Steinberg UR22, KRK RP6 G2, JBL LSR305
Guitar, mandolin and banjo player, hobbyist producer.
on YouTube
Re: PHA-4 Standard vs. tri-sensor scaled hammer action II [Re: Cue Zephyr] #2428450
06/03/15 08:22 PM
06/03/15 08:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,382
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Kawai James  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,382
Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello Cue Zephyr,

I know this is something of a moot point given that you have already purchased a Casio PX-5S, however I wished to highlight a point regarding Kawai distribution in Holland.

Originally Posted by Cue Zephyr
Unfortunately, only two large German stores carry Kawai products and I have no way of getting there.

Originally Posted by Cue Zephyr
The two other main music stores in my country (i.e. not Germany) don't carry Kawai.


I am not based in Europe, so it is a little difficult for me to assess the current distribution/availability of Kawai instruments. However, checking the Kawai Europe website, it appears that there are a number of Kawai dealers in Holland, and indeed one located in Eindhoven, your home town:

http://www.kawai.de/dealers_nl.htm?scat=1&scountry=NL&stext=Eindhoven

http://www.pianos-vleugels.nl

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: PHA-4 Standard vs. tri-sensor scaled hammer action II [Re: Cue Zephyr] #2428560
06/04/15 04:55 AM
06/04/15 04:55 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 125
Eindhoven, Netherlands
Cue Zephyr Offline OP
Full Member
Cue Zephyr  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 125
Eindhoven, Netherlands
The PX-5S is the only product in its class but I suppose it's still worth trying some Kawai models out I think. I didnt'even realize there was a small shop for pianos in my city - cheers! Prices are on par also.

I was only familiar with KeyMusic and Bax-Shop. This is probably partly due to me primarily being a guitar player i.e. only knowing small guitar shops and not piano shops.


Casio Privia Pro PX-5S, Focusrite Saffire Pro40, Steinberg UR22, KRK RP6 G2, JBL LSR305
Guitar, mandolin and banjo player, hobbyist producer.
on YouTube

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