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Re: MP11 dead on arrival
Alan Tripp #2414489 04/27/15 08:29 AM
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Tony, generally I'd agree - especially regarding the tendency for forum complaints to over represent negative experiences. However, the particular nature of this problem really makes it hard to give too much leeway. There's no way that this kind of flaw should ever make it through the QA process.

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Re: MP11 dead on arrival
TonyB #2414493 04/27/15 08:38 AM
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Tony,

IMHO this kind of thorough QA process, as you describe it, is obviously not happening at Kawai's Indonesian assembly pant and beyond, aggravated by some design flaws documented above. The reports are numerous, underpinned by conversations with other participants in the DP market outside this forum. We are discussing real world problems of real people here, not company statistics across a product line, which are kept secret anyway. As an affected customer, I couldn't care less about a CEO's view point, being not bothered about just 0.5% in profit loss, because of some QA hiccups somewhere.

Another way to tackle the problem of missing quality standards would be, to have an effective and customer friendly network of technicians (who you need anyway and are standard in the AP business). The reality described in the post above: two failed repair attempts in two separate cases, and still no proactive customer service offering a real quick exchange, instead bothering the hassled customer with technicalities of shipping and payment for an overdue replacement unit.

Kind Regards,
Lo PHi

Re: MP11 dead on arrival
Alan Tripp #2414501 04/27/15 08:59 AM
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My view on what should happen with the design flaw discussed in this thread is that Kawai would determine the exact nature of the problem and make a "recall" action if it really is that. Everybody who has this particular product should be able to get the fix applied in that case at no charge.

As to discussing real people and real world problems, yes I can see that perspective too. It is human nature that when something bad happens to us or somebody we know, it becomes real. When it happens to somebody we don't know, it is largely a matter of passing interest. Most of us are not seriously upset when we hear about something bad happening somewhere else in the world. Well, some people are and they will become participants in the resolution of the problem by going to help out, initiating or participating in fund raising to help those affected, etc. But most of us give it a passing thought and move on with our lives.

I know how I would feel if something bad happened to my DP, so it is a rather awkward position to be in saying anything here on my part. As long as the company handled the matter efficiently and within the terms of the warranty, that is probably the best I could hope for. If it really is true that one company is having far more of these issues than others at the same price point, I personally would go with one of the other companies the next time. Really, that is pretty much the choices we have in this sort of situation.

The point of my post is not that these aren't real problems, but that the kind of quality and support we are demanding is expensive enough that it would probably substantially increase the cost of the product beyond our means. So I would expect Kawai to address the individual issues, but not necessarily do all the QA activity that a government can afford for its military or a large corporation is willing to pay for products critical to its ongoing operations.

Tony


Last edited by TonyB; 04/27/15 09:00 AM.

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Re: MP11 dead on arrival
TonyB #2414515 04/27/15 09:46 AM
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My experience with 2 mp11s was:
Both boxes had noticeable outside damage
Both boxes had extensive internal styrofoam damage
Both would not power up

From what I read, sounds aside, the only problem with these is the power up issue with the joints on one board. There is enough room in the mp11 case to put air conditioning, so when I get my new circuit board I might consider raising the stantions that board sits on and putting some rubber bumpers on. I think the piano is well prepared for the rigors of the road and if it lives in a case all the better.


All of this has been a minor inconvenience, but the end result is worth it, and in the end, you get to know your piano really really well. I look forward, very forward, to my upcoming years with this bad boy!


"Without music, life would be a mistake".
Friedrich Nietzsche



Re: MP11 dead on arrival
Alan Tripp #2415426 04/29/15 04:14 PM
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Quick follow-up: In under a week (6 days), I received my second MP11 and it's home and working perfectly. Solich Piano in Columbus, OH was awesome and really went the extra mile by reaching out to their personal contacts at Kawai to get me a replacement so quickly. I would definitely recommend them (or any other reputable dealer) over an online retailer if you're thinking about buying an MP11 right now because a good dealer will make the replacement process a lot smoother and less costly if you get a DOA unit (which apparently is happening more frequently lately).

Re: MP11 dead on arrival
Alan Tripp #2415468 04/29/15 07:10 PM
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BetterAtGuitar, thank you for the update. I'm glad to hear that your dealer responded quickly, and that you're now able to enjoy the MP11.

A big +1 for local piano dealers! wink

Kind regards,
James
x



Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: MP11 dead on arrival
Alan Tripp #2415611 04/30/15 07:39 AM
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My replacement was shipped Monday from California and is scheduled to arrive Friday/tomorrow.

Re: MP11 dead on arrival
Alan Tripp #2415638 04/30/15 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan Tripp
My replacement was shipped Monday from California and is scheduled to arrive Friday/tomorrow.

Perhaps we should start a book for whether it's going to require technician attention or not...


Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage + Grotrian, Bluethner / Galaxy Vintage D / CFX Lite
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810
Re: MP11 dead on arrival
Alan Tripp #2415704 04/30/15 11:39 AM
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Now, now, let's play nice ...

+++

On another Note ...

So far, the Dealer in Mpls/StPaul has not seen a CA97. Or, they want to sell the 95's first.

So. You folks will have to wait a bit for my Detailed Revue and Expert Voice Evaluation.

Tee hee hee ...

+++

WAIT!!! Hold The Phone!!! My SalesGal just called!!! They have one in stock!!! I will be there about suppertime!!! Full Review To Follow!!!

Any bets to see if Kawai James will stay up late, with baited breath, to read my Review?

I will lay 10:1 for starters. 20:1 if the Book gets full.

Last edited by McBuster; 04/30/15 11:40 AM.

Jon ...

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A Tired, Retired, Dreamer ...
Re: MP11 dead on arrival
McBuster #2415786 04/30/15 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by McBuster
I will lay 10:1 for starters. 20:1 if the Book gets full.

A bargain. I'll put 100 imaginary $ on that! (I'd have bought at evens.)


Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage + Grotrian, Bluethner / Galaxy Vintage D / CFX Lite
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810
Re: MP11 dead on arrival
lolatu #2415862 04/30/15 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by lolatu
Originally Posted by Alan Tripp
My replacement was shipped Monday from California and is scheduled to arrive Friday/tomorrow.

Perhaps we should start a book for whether it's going to require technician attention or not...


I hope not.

With any luck the shipping agent will have been asked to ensure that the package arrives in one piece.

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: MP11 dead on arrival
McBuster #2415865 04/30/15 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by McBuster at 08:39 AM
So far, the Dealer in Mpls/StPaul has not seen a CA97. Or, they want to sell the 95's first.

So. You folks will have to wait a bit for my Detailed Revue and Expert Voice Evaluation.

Tee hee hee ...


...

Originally Posted by McBuster at 08:40 AM
WAIT!!! Hold The Phone!!! My SalesGal just called!!! They have one in stock!!! I will be there about suppertime!!! Full Review To Follow!!!


You managed to take a phone call and then return here to edit your post all within the space of one minute?

Impressive stuff, Jon!

Seriously though, as an owner of previous generation instruments, it certainly will be interesting to hear your impression of the latest CA models.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: MP11 dead on arrival
Kawai James #2415910 04/30/15 11:16 PM
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James

My Response is in the Thread - Anyone actually played a Kawai CA-97?



Jon ...

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A Tired, Retired, Dreamer ...
Re: MP11 dead on arrival
Alan Tripp #2415926 05/01/15 12:09 AM
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Thank you Jon.


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: MP11 dead on arrival
Alan Tripp #2426181 05/28/15 05:46 PM
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I just received an mp 11 doa as well (wouldn't power on). The shipping box had a hole poked right in the middle of the top and was torn open in several corners and along the seems. When I got it out of the box I saw it was scratched pretty good on the glass display and 2 of the keys had small scuff marks on the front edges. Other than the scratches the unit doesn't look banged up but I guess it has the same problem others have reported here.

Fortunately Amazon is very good about these things, with a few clicks I had approval for a refund and a shipping authorization for ups to pick it up tomorrow, so I just put it back in the box and taped it up as best I could.

Was really looking forward to playing it, I guess I will order another one after the refund goes through.

Re: MP11 dead on arrival
Alan Tripp #2426194 05/28/15 06:47 PM
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Hello JoeAudette, welcome to the forum.

I'm sorry to read that your MP11 would not power on. I expect whatever caused the damage to the shipping box was to blame.

Am I correct in thinking that you are based in the US? If so, it may also be worth reporting the damage and instrument serial no. to Kawai America for logging.

Fingers crossed the replacement arrives free of damage.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: MP11 dead on arrival
Alan Tripp #2426217 05/28/15 08:39 PM
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In terms of reliability, my personal experience is that Yamaha is much better than Kawai.

My CA95 has a clicky key, which cannot be resolved after 2 visits from my dealer's technician. The replacement set arrived and it too had a clicky key. After using the replacement unit for less than 4 months, it died suddenly one morning. The repair came up to USD$110 and I need to pay for it because the warranty only covers my 1st CA95 and that warranty is already over. It seems to me like a known issue because the dealer immediately ordered the parts without probing further. Once the parts were swapped, the replacement unit came to life.

I felt I had enough of Kawai (and digital pianos, in general) and started to look elsewhere. My first DP was a Yamaha P155 and it was delivered to me in perfect condition. So, I went ahead and bought a Yamaha U3 (I have it for close to 6 months now). Again, the product was delivered to me without a flaw. Everything works as one would expect. I'm not sure if I'm just lucky with Yamaha, or that they just have better QC than their competitors.

I always thought an acoustic piano would be too loud for my apartment. Turns out that it's actually quite easy to play softly on my Yamaha U3. I'm not sure if I'll go back to a digital piano again, but if I do, I don't think Kawai would be my first choice.

Re: MP11 dead on arrival
JoeAudette #2426325 05/29/15 04:59 AM
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Hi JoeAudette, Sorry to hear that your new MP11 was DOA. Sounds like it had been very roughly handled in transit, and that may well be the culprit in your case, but if you read the earlier posts on this subject/thread (of new MP11's not powering on), you'll see that there was quite a bit of discussion about some wires on the internal power supply being very close to the metal case. Not saying that's what's happened to you, but it does make for interesting reading.

One thing is for sure, once you receive a MP11 that is undamaged and working properly, you shold find that it is a very satisfying experience...it is a superb instrument.


1993 Roland JV1000 76 note workstation synth with Pop and VE-GS1 expansion boards ] 1994 Roland JV1080 Multi-timbral sound module ] 1994 Roland KR4500 Intelligent Piano ] 2008 Korg MicroX sound module ] 2015 Kawai MP7 Digital Stage Piano
Re: MP11 dead on arrival
iceporky #2426343 05/29/15 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by iceporky
In terms of reliability, my personal experience is that Yamaha is much better than Kawai.

My CA95 has a clicky key, which cannot be resolved after 2 visits from my dealer's technician. The replacement set arrived and it too had a clicky key. After using the replacement unit for less than 4 months, it died suddenly one morning. The repair came up to USD$110 and I need to pay for it because the warranty only covers my 1st CA95 and that warranty is already over. It seems to me like a known issue because the dealer immediately ordered the parts without probing further. Once the parts were swapped, the replacement unit came to life.

I felt I had enough of Kawai (and digital pianos, in general) and started to look elsewhere. My first DP was a Yamaha P155 and it was delivered to me in perfect condition. So, I went ahead and bought a Yamaha U3 (I have it for close to 6 months now). Again, the product was delivered to me without a flaw. Everything works as one would expect. I'm not sure if I'm just lucky with Yamaha, or that they just have better QC than their competitors.

I always thought an acoustic piano would be too loud for my apartment. Turns out that it's actually quite easy to play softly on my Yamaha U3. I'm not sure if I'll go back to a digital piano again, but if I do, I don't think Kawai would be my first choice.


In all fairness, acoustic pianos have had centuries of refinement behind them to learn from, whereas a lot of DPs are using new technology and ideas that are relatively untested compared with acoustics. So I don't think it is fair to compare acoustics with digitals. The Yamaha U3 is a great instrument, so congrats on your purchase! smile

PS: there are some people who have received Kawai DPs without any hassle or issue. What that ratio of satisfied customers who have no issue is to those who do have issues I can't say.


private piano/voice teacher FT

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Re: MP11 dead on arrival
iceporky #2426354 05/29/15 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by iceporky
In terms of reliability, my personal experience is that Yamaha is much better than Kawai.

There are 2 separate issues: 1) quality of the instrument, which is global, and 2) quality of post-sales service, which is dependent on what particular dealer you used. We can generalize about Kawai in the first case because all the instruments are made in the same factory, but not in the second, because there's no such thing as "Kawai service" - it depends on who your dealer is.

Quote
After using the replacement unit for less than 4 months, it died suddenly one morning. The repair came up to USD$110 and I need to pay for it because the warranty only covers my 1st CA95 and that warranty is already over. It seems to me like a known issue because the dealer immediately ordered the parts without probing further. Once the parts were swapped, the replacement unit came to life.

Do you know which part it was? Power supply maybe?


Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage + Grotrian, Bluethner / Galaxy Vintage D / CFX Lite
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810
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