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Re: Young Chang 9' G-275 Opinions [Re: Hunt] #2416983
05/04/15 04:00 AM
05/04/15 04:00 AM
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joe80 Offline
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HAHA YES! One point in favour of Young Chang pianos is that they always struck me as being built like tanks when it came to the actual durability of the key bed and the rims. Since they were largely based on Yamaha pianos, I've no doubt that they could undergo a complete rebuild and turn out to be excellent pianos in the hands of the right rebuilder, with a properly installed soundboard and bridges, some re-scaling would probably be necessary, and either a new action and key set or a completely rebuilt action with the touch weights worked out properly.

It would be a complete financial disaster though as the piano would always be worth about half the price of the rebuild costs because of the Young Chang name on the board.

Someone has mentioned on this forum (I can't remember who, I can't remember where) that Young Chang has undergone a massive improvement in recent years. Does anybody know what the new pianos are like?

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Re: Young Chang 9' G-275 Opinions [Re: joe80] #2417157
05/04/15 04:16 PM
05/04/15 04:16 PM
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musicpassion Offline
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Originally Posted by joe80
I've no doubt that they could undergo a complete rebuild and turn out to be excellent pianos in the hands of the right rebuilder, with a properly installed soundboard and bridges, some re-scaling would probably be necessary, and either a new action and key set or a completely rebuilt action with the touch weights worked out properly.
We'll probably never know. However I would be surprised if the quality of materials in the rim, plate, and structure is the stuff rebuilders dream about.


Pianist and Piano Teacher
Re: Young Chang 9' G-275 Opinions [Re: musicpassion] #2417199
05/04/15 07:47 PM
05/04/15 07:47 PM
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beethoven986 Offline
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Originally Posted by musicpassion
We'll probably never know.


Don't be so sure wink

Re: Young Chang 9' G-275 Opinions [Re: joe80] #2417228
05/04/15 10:06 PM
05/04/15 10:06 PM
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Maxer Offline
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Originally Posted by joe80
HAHA YES! One point in favour of Young Chang pianos is that they always struck me as being built like tanks when it came to the actual durability of the key bed and the rims. Since they were largely based on Yamaha pianos, I've no doubt that they could undergo a complete rebuild and turn out to be excellent pianos in the hands of the right rebuilder, with a properly installed soundboard and bridges, some re-scaling would probably be necessary, and either a new action and key set or a completely rebuilt action with the touch weights worked out properly.

It would be a complete financial disaster though as the piano would always be worth about half the price of the rebuild costs because of the Young Chang name on the board.

Someone has mentioned on this forum (I can't remember who, I can't remember where) that Young Chang has undergone a massive improvement in recent years. Does anybody know what the new pianos are like?


I am a longtime lurker here, so hello. I recently bought a Del Fandrich redesigned Weber upright (made by Young Chang) for my wife's voice studio and although I know far less than most of you here about piano construction, it strikes me as a much better sounding and playing piano than many others in the price range made in China/Indonesia.

The materials are not premium, but they are reasonable (spruce soundboard, etc).

That said, I certainly wouldn't rebuild one either.

Re: Young Chang 9' G-275 Opinions [Re: Maxer] #2417234
05/04/15 10:24 PM
05/04/15 10:24 PM
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bleak Offline
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Originally Posted by Maxer

I am a longtime lurker here, so hello. I recently bought a Del Fandrich redesigned Weber upright (made by Young Chang) for my wife's voice studio and although I know far less than most of you here about piano construction, it strikes me as a much better sounding and playing piano than many others in the price range made in China/Indonesia.

The materials are not premium, but they are reasonable (spruce soundboard, etc).

That said, I certainly wouldn't rebuild one either.


The Young Changs of the 1980's are a far cry from the post Fandrich YC's. Pretty much night and day.


Re: Young Chang 9' G-275 Opinions [Re: bleak] #2417235
05/04/15 10:28 PM
05/04/15 10:28 PM
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Maxer Offline
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Originally Posted by bleak
Originally Posted by Maxer

I am a longtime lurker here, so hello. I recently bought a Del Fandrich redesigned Weber upright (made by Young Chang) for my wife's voice studio and although I know far less than most of you here about piano construction, it strikes me as a much better sounding and playing piano than many others in the price range made in China/Indonesia.

The materials are not premium, but they are reasonable (spruce soundboard, etc).

That said, I certainly wouldn't rebuild one either.


The Young Changs of the 1980's are a far cry from the post Fandrich YC's. Pretty much night and day.



Undoubtedly they are. I was responding to the question Joe80 asked at the end of his post:

Originally Posted by Joe80

Someone has mentioned on this forum (I can't remember who, I can't remember where) that Young Chang has undergone a massive improvement in recent years. Does anybody know what the new pianos are like?


Re: Young Chang 9' G-275 Opinions [Re: Hunt] #2417256
05/05/15 12:07 AM
05/05/15 12:07 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,431
Surrey, B.C.
Norbert Offline
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Quote
I am a longtime lurker here, so hello. I recently bought a Del Fandrich redesigned Weber upright (made by Young Chang) for my wife's voice studio and although I know far less than most of you here about piano construction, it strikes me as a much better sounding and playing piano than many others in the price range made in China/Indonesia.


Time is over to lump Indonesian and Chinese pianos together into one group.

With the possible exception of Seiler, all Indonesian made pianos are basically entry level. Which suits the mother companies to preserve both company immage and jobs at home.

China doesn't have that restriction.

Which is clearly shown in their current and future production of pianos.

"Not hyping but speaking the truth"

Norbert



www.heritagepianos.com
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Re: Young Chang 9' G-275 Opinions [Re: Hunt] #2417354
05/05/15 09:04 AM
05/05/15 09:04 AM
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Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
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Keith D Kerman Offline
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I'm a bit late to this thread, but here is my 2 cents.

Concert grands are extremely difficult. Even amongst tier 1 Concert grands, there are IMNSHO some real clunkers ( not materials or workmanship, but design problems ). Even amongst the very few companies that make good concert grands, there are big inconsistencies and lemons.
Most rebuilders do very few concert grands and concert grands take lots of experience to do well with.

I would not assume this Young Chang was a quality concert grand or that anything much could be done about it within reason.


Keith D Kerman
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Re: Young Chang 9' G-275 Opinions [Re: Norbert] #2417359
05/05/15 09:17 AM
05/05/15 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Norbert

With the possible exception of Seiler, all Indonesian made pianos are basically entry level.


JP Pramberger is entry level? Knabes are entry level? I'd disagree there.


Gary
Essex EUP-111 at the mountains
W. Hoffmann T-122 at the beach
Re: Young Chang 9' G-275 Opinions [Re: Hunt] #2417388
05/05/15 11:36 AM
05/05/15 11:36 AM
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Keith you are totally right - I have, come to think of it, played very few amazing concert grands. The Hamburg Steinway D is the one I have most experience with, and they can range from the absolutely beautiful to the underwhelming. I've played a couple of Shigeru Kawai EX and they are good quality certainly, but I feel that they are more suited to smaller venues as they don't seem to have the projection.

The Yamahas can be excellent, but again some of them are so underprepared it's hard to know what they are like (although I've played a beautiful sounding CFX but it wasn't in a concert situation).

I've used a couple of Blüthners in concert and sometimes it was disappointing - sometime the treble on the modern ones can be a little weak, and I am not sure whether it's set up, design, a glitch in the build, or rubbish acoustics in the venue. When I have played a good Blüthner concert grand it has been a wonderful experience, but I feel that some of the best Blüthner concerts were made before 1920.

The Bösendorfer Imperial for me wins the prize as one of the most inconsistent pianos ever - the good ones are absolutely mind blowing, and the bad ones are so underpowered it's almost comical.

It seems that the smaller pianos are easier to get right and easier to keep consistent.

Re: Young Chang 9' G-275 Opinions [Re: Norbert] #2417400
05/05/15 12:08 PM
05/05/15 12:08 PM
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Maxer Offline
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Originally Posted by Norbert
Quote
I am a longtime lurker here, so hello. I recently bought a Del Fandrich redesigned Weber upright (made by Young Chang) for my wife's voice studio and although I know far less than most of you here about piano construction, it strikes me as a much better sounding and playing piano than many others in the price range made in China/Indonesia.


Time is over to lump Indonesian and Chinese pianos together into one group.

With the possible exception of Seiler, all Indonesian made pianos are basically entry level. Which suits the mother companies to preserve both company immage and jobs at home.

China doesn't have that restriction.

Which is clearly shown in their current and future production of pianos.

"Not hyping but speaking the truth"

Norbert



I was lumping them into a group not to speak to the relative merits of manufacturing in one over the other, but because most of the low-cost pianos we were looking at for my wife's vocal studio were made in China or Indonesia.

We picked a Chinese manufactured piano as I said, so I'm not sure why you think I'm stuck in the past.

Re: Young Chang 9' G-275 Opinions [Re: Hunt] #2417430
05/05/15 01:46 PM
05/05/15 01:46 PM
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joe80 Offline
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Oh, Maxer, Norbert doesn't think you are stuck in the past. Norbert just likes to take every opportunity he can to show that Chinese pianos can be an excellent choice. Now - I'm going to be perfectly honest here - sometimes I find his promotion of Chinese instruments can verge on the excessive (I'm being light-hearted here so bear with me)...

BUT - he is right that over the past 20 years, and in particular over the past 5 years, the quality of the pianos being made in China has risen to a point where they are competing in terms of touch and tone with some long established brands, and I've heard some really beautiful sounding Chinese instruments in the past few years. Now, the build quality is starting to catch up with the sound quality, so I think we'll see some excellent pianos coming out of China in the next 10 years - by excellent I mean matching Yamaha and Kawai in terms of durability - and of course the costs will probably rise as well, but probably not to the same level as the long established brands.

For me, personally, I still wouldn't rate any Chinese piano in a performance category even close to the best of the tier one group (C. Bechstein, Fazioli, Grotrian, Blüthner, Steinway Hamburg, Bösendorfer), but then, they're not even close to the price range of that group either.

OK, we have successfully managed to completely de-rail this thread, sorry everyone, I know I'm guilty of haivering when it comes to this forum, but I do like to get involved in an interesting discussion.

P.S. Haivering - Scottish word meaning chiefly 'to talk rubbish', and is also used for someone with excessive verbal diarrhoea..... this forum ignites that in me.

Re: Young Chang 9' G-275 Opinions [Re: joe80] #2417447
05/05/15 03:07 PM
05/05/15 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by joe80
I don't know much about Young Chang concert grands. I've played a few smaller Young Chang grands but I've never liked them. That said, sometimes manufacturers pull out all the stops for the concert grands. Here is a video of Living Pianos who had a Young Chang 275 for sale recently. It sounds like a decent enough piano - nice tone on the video at least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9QNKOd2HN8


+1 on Living Pianos. If you're anywhere near Southern California, they're well worth checking out. They move a lot of Baldwin concert grands, prices in the 20's and 30's.

My Knabe is a 9 ft from 1929, no problem using it at home.



-- J.S.

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Re: Young Chang 9' G-275 Opinions [Re: Hunt] #2417504
05/05/15 05:37 PM
05/05/15 05:37 PM
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I am not so familiar with the older Young Changs in terms of materials and workmanship but I will say that Del Fandrich has done miracles for their company in terms of bringing a completely new design philosophy to the table.

I have experienced a couple of their instruments that Del designed at a trade show and liked them.


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Re: Young Chang 9' G-275 Opinions [Re: Hunt] #2417545
05/05/15 08:22 PM
05/05/15 08:22 PM
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Surrey, B.C.
Norbert Offline
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Quote
Oh, Maxer, Norbert doesn't think you are stuck in the past. Norbert just likes to take every opportunity he can to show that Chinese pianos can be an excellent choice. Now - I'm going to be perfectly honest here - sometimes I find his promotion of Chinese instruments can verge on the excessive (I'm being light-hearted here so bear with me)...


It may appear this way but not entirely true.
FYI 85% of the pianos we sell right now are not Chinese made.

Chinese are not in my heart but they seem a "necessary evil" for those who simply don't have the $$. And still want highest quality and sound attainable in each single category.

That's all there's to it.

The point I've been making is that being in denial or sleeping at the helm ain't helpful to anybody. Not the makers and not the consumers. Neither the Germans, nor the Japanese, Koreans or even Indonesians can compete at that level.
Let's stop dreaming or pretending.

Personally I don't give a hoot where a piano is made.
What counts is finest identifiable quality and sound at price point.

If better pianos at equivalent or identical price points are made by anybody else - let's hear of them!

Examples please:

Alternatives please at 10 k: Sale price of a 5'3 Ritmuller UH 160, 12,500 k: price of a 5'7 Ritmuller UH 170, 14,500: price of a Brodmann CE 175 and 16,500 for which you can get either a 6'1 Ritmuller or [almost] 6'2 Brodmann.

All formidable pianos in their own right.

This besides several other similar choices on market as well such as Baldwin, Cunningham, Feurich etc

If someone makes better quality pianos at those particular price points I mentioned,would be extremely grateful and certainly obliged to know. Glad to respond to every single suggestion - careful: did our homework long time ago...

In fact, may change lines overnight to guarantee my customers absolute best quality. Name of the game. No hyping nothing.

And we haven't even talked about uprights... wow

Thanks in advance - serious!

Norbert thumb

Last edited by Norbert; 05/05/15 08:36 PM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: Young Chang 9' G-275 Opinions [Re: Norbert] #2417683
05/06/15 08:59 AM
05/06/15 08:59 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
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Texas
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Steve Peterson Offline

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Originally Posted by Norbert
"Not hyping but speaking the truth"

Perhaps if you didn't feel the need to subtly interject this "truth" into nearly every thread on the board, even if it doesn't apply to the conversation, we would be assured that you aren't hyping. smile

Steve


Cello, Piano, Electric Bass

1967 Baldwin SD-10 | Kawai MP11
Re: Young Chang 9' G-275 Opinions [Re: Steve Peterson] #2417691
05/06/15 09:19 AM
05/06/15 09:19 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,595
Melbourne, Australia
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ando Online content
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Originally Posted by Steve Peterson
Originally Posted by Norbert
"Not hyping but speaking the truth"

Perhaps if you didn't feel the need to subtly interject this "truth" into nearly every thread on the board, even if it doesn't apply to the conversation, we would be assured that you aren't hyping. smile

Steve


Steve, I think it comes up a lot because the same issue is discussed frequently. It seems to be a rather passionate topic for a lot of people - not just Norbert. As far as Norbert consistently hammering the same point - I don't think it problematic in itself. He appears to be consistent. It's a bit like when threads come up about having 9 foot concert grands at home - or threads about Baldwin SD10s. You usually participate in them and you say the same sorts of things each time - which is fine, of course. You have an opinion and you are entitled to it. I think Norbert has the right to state and restate his opinion as long as the same questions are being asked. I don't think he actively sells his wares on the forum, and I do believe that he is very interested in the "value equation" as he sees it. I've seen him change his product lines abruptly before - I don't think he pushes brands for the sake of profit. I think he believes in the principles of quality at whatever price point regardless of country of origin.

Re: Young Chang 9' G-275 Opinions [Re: ando] #2417723
05/06/15 11:26 AM
05/06/15 11:26 AM
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Maxer Offline
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Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by Steve Peterson
Originally Posted by Norbert
"Not hyping but speaking the truth"

Perhaps if you didn't feel the need to subtly interject this "truth" into nearly every thread on the board, even if it doesn't apply to the conversation, we would be assured that you aren't hyping. smile

Steve


Steve, I think it comes up a lot because the same issue is discussed frequently. It seems to be a rather passionate topic for a lot of people - not just Norbert. As far as Norbert consistently hammering the same point - I don't think it problematic in itself. He appears to be consistent. It's a bit like when threads come up about having 9 foot concert grands at home - or threads about Baldwin SD10s. You usually participate in them and you say the same sorts of things each time - which is fine, of course. You have an opinion and you are entitled to it. I think Norbert has the right to state and restate his opinion as long as the same questions are being asked. I don't think he actively sells his wares on the forum, and I do believe that he is very interested in the "value equation" as he sees it. I've seen him change his product lines abruptly before - I don't think he pushes brands for the sake of profit. I think he believes in the principles of quality at whatever price point regardless of country of origin.


Except that what he was replying to was:

- Joe80 asking about the state of current Young Changs
- Me telling him that I bought a piano manufactured by Young Chang for my wife's vocal studio, and quite liked it.

He's inventing a straw-man. No one in this thread came anywhere close to impugning Chinese-made pianos. In fact I bought one!

I know I'm new here, but jumping all over the new guy for trying to answer a question about which I have some direct experience makes this forum... let's say it gives it a high barrier to entry.

Re: Young Chang 9' G-275 Opinions [Re: Hunt] #2418921
05/10/15 09:00 AM
05/10/15 09:00 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 526
Rockville, MD
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If you haven't already ruled out the G-275, here are some considerations:

1) You already own and like what presumably is the Young Chang G-208 (you say it's 6'10"). I owned one, myself, and it was a decent enough piano.

2) I can't speak for an 80's G-275, but I can say with certainty that the action in my 1991 Weber (by YC) was "Renner", but, I believe, made in Korea. My own experience was that the quality of the build was somewhat inferior to the made in Germany Renner parts, but the design was the same. Example: hammer shanks not trimmed/finished as nicely, knuckles not as uniformly glued into shanks. The original hammers were "OK", and I eventually replaced them with (much nicer) Abel Natural Selects.

3) The notion that you are buying a 9' piano for potential re-sale seems specious to me. You're buying it, because you LOVE the sound of a big piano. Yes, it's going to be even BIGGER and MORE DIFFICULT to move than your near 7' piano, but, heck, the 7 footer is no small thing to deal with either. If you really like the 9' piano, you aren't going to want to re-sell it; you're going to keep it until you're no longer able to play, or die, so WHO CARES? If you want to make a smart investment, it's not going to be in a PIANO :-0

4) Some of the pianos mentioned as potential alternatives, e.g., the Baldwin SD-10 are... noble instruments, but VERY different in character from the YC (which is kind of a Bechstein wannabe in my estimation). So...if you like the feel and sound of the YC, why not buy it - or if you have $ to burn - go try a Bechstein. I think you'll love it.

All best wishes in your quest for your next piano.


Andrew Kraus, Pianist
Educated Amateur Tuner/Technician
Rockville, MD USA
www.AndrewKraus.com
www.YouTube.com/RockvillePianoGuy
Twitter at @IAmAPianist

1929 Steinert 6'10" (Close copy of New York S&S "B")
Re: Young Chang 9' G-275 Opinions [Re: Hunt] #2418923
05/10/15 09:04 AM
05/10/15 09:04 AM
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I would have to disagree that anybody buys a C Bechstein because they have $ to burn. For what you get, they are outstanding value!


Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
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