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Well, compare with Roland's tech support, who refused to send a tech to me at all while my DP was under warranty. They said I would have to ship it back to them with the original box - which was destroyed in shipment, or drive to a tech that was a couple of hours away. When I contacted the technician, they refused to work on it since I didn't buy the unit from them, and I asked them, "So let me get this straight so I can pass this along to Roland for you: you don't do warranty service for Roland digital pianos?" He hemmed and hawed a bit but I was so frustrated after all the runaround I got.

I think in comparison with my experience, Kawai support has done a great job. They've sent a guy out twice to try and resolve the issue and get your unit up and running ASAP. It would be nice if they could trust you to be honest and return the defective unit and not have to charge you for a new one, but I'm sure the other option would be to send this one back and wait until they receive it before sending you a new unit which would take longer. A pain for you, yes, but I don't really see a way around it.

When I had to return my FC-3 pedal unit because it stopped working correctly, they sent me a new one right away and I used the box that came in to ship it back to them. But with an entire DP, they stand to lose a lot more should the customer decide to keep the old unit.

Personally, I see this more as an issue of the packaging than the design. When moving DPs, the most likely parts to get beat up are on the ends, not in the back, so I'd be very surprised if something like that would happen. But I do think they should revamp their packaging to ensure that the instrument is well-protected in shipping.

My first MP11 was broken at least physically (slammed key into wood side) by I think a combo of poor Kawai packing and rough fedex shipping. It did not power on so back it went. My second one arrived yesterday with upgraded packing, thanks to Mr. Sam Ash, but did not power on:( So, I too called Juan. He was able to walk me through the fix - which is crazy for me to be doing. He also sent me an upgraded board..The problem is this electronic component on the board, which has three long legs, poke through and those legs touch the top case. If you hit the top case it will break the strap welds causing the unit to not power up. The upgrade design has the component in at an angle so it does not touch the case. OK. So I did get the unit to power up and it is all they say it is. Here is a pic of the component and the broken strap weld, which are stupid in my opinion and just asking to be broken...

Here's a thought ...

Seeing that Kawai is completely aware of this dilemma, and it might be safe to say, they do not sell 100's of these a day, would it not be wise, to forward the correct board to their Dealers to patch units they have? And then, before shipping from their Warehouse, they do the fix?

Wouldn't that proactive approach buy them nothing but good will? And, am I the first one to mention this? Even if they brought in Temps to do the work.

Excuse me, but, Duuuuh!

Jack, that is what mine looked like as well, though this "upgrade design," I'm fairly sure, is just Kawai carefully bending the component since it takes up less vertical space at a ~45 degree angle than a 90 degree angle.

A bullet proof packaging for such an instrument will not fit trough your door. Kawai is responsible for delivering the unit to you, but the carrier company seems to be the one giving a rough treatment to the unit. The type of damage you show confirms that, unless you dropped the unit. Hopefully you wrote on the delivery document that the box shows damage, then Kawai can workout with the carrier for the costs. These units should have a shock sensor on the box the same way that perishable merchandise has disposable temperature or humidity sensors

hi guys! i found this post by googling "MP11 won't power on". i ordered mine the first week of february (from a kawai dealerhip here in columbus, ohio) and supposedly due to a dock workers strike in long beach that held up a big shipment of MP11s, i didn't get it until this thursday (4/23). unfortunately mine was DOA too. but my kawai dealership has been very understanding and helpful. they have arranged the shipment of a new keyboard (without charging me for another one or waiting until the old one gets shipped back), which should be coming within days of the first one's arrival. i'll keep you posted, but i just wanted to add my story to the record. sounds like they have a design issue to fix, but at least in my experience so far, kawai is doing everything they can to fix the situation for me.

matt

yessir - that is what Juan told me a 45 and I agree with you, but, if it were to bend it it would break the other side. There has to be continuity between the top and where the strap connects on one side and then on the other side as well. I'll post a pic of my new one when it arrives,, and I'll post a pic of my solder job on the old one. I did add a new dimension to my MP11 with my solder job that will hopefully go away with the new board. It just says good bye on the display but wont actually turn off. To turn it back on (and to get rid of the goodbye) I must actually unplug it. Believe me you don't want me soldering your circuit board!

I guess the morale of this story is: Only buy a piano from a reputable store.

I got my DP from a good store in a nearby city. They have acoustics, uprights as well as grands (even 2 Steinways in the showroom, that I got to try as well), and they have Yamaha, Roland and a few more DPs. They were extremely helpful at the store, as I was trying out different pianos. The owner is also a tech, and does tuning, repairs etc on the acoustics himself. It was also the owner, who delivered my DP, and it was set up in my home where I wanted it, and thoroughly checked after that. Everything was A OK, and frankly, spending a considerable amount on an instrument, I'd expect nothing less. Best part, I spent less than I would have from an online store (where I wouldn't dream of buying a DP anyway).

This really has nothing to do with the dealer. I would venture to guess that 99% of the purchasers of MP11s received it in a box just like me.

Well, that's a made-up statistic, but obviously when you buy online, you are taking that risk. Sometimes (often? usually?) that never comes into play: you get your instrument and you are happy. But then there are those who have a problem and it's more hassle to deal with on their own rather than have a good dealer as the go-between.

My last two DP's were delivered to my home by my local dealer, 'box opened', tested and working, and even case polished.

Comparing the service you have received remotely from Kawai versus that from the local dealer that BetterAtGuitar used reinforces Jytte's point

This aspect of the debate is veering OT, except that were I to purchase an MP11, I know how I would go about it.

The root of the problem remains in existence, no matter how well prepared a local showroom shop would be:
there is a serious quality problem with some electronic parts and there is obviously no sufficient Quality Assurance.
On top of that the Kawai support seems to be starved of funds and lost sight of customer satisfaction.
After all we are talking about basics here.

These manufacturers all insist on making HEAVY pianos. And then pack em inadequately. My DGX is heavy, it came double boxed delivered from the local storage facility of our piano music shop. And it cost a third of the price of an mp11.

lophiomys, your post is incorrect.

The MP11 is a large, heavy instrument. Due to its size and weight, the carton box for an MP11 can be cumbersome for shipping agents to handle alone. As a result, customers may notice damage to the delivered instrument's packaging, and, unfortunately, in some case damage to the instrument itself.

However, as this thread demonstrates, Kawai dealers and distributors have an excellent track record of assisting customers who report such damage. Every effort is taken to ensure that our instruments are securely packaged to withstand rough handling. In the event that a customer does receive a damaged product, every effort is also taken to ensure that the matter is resolved as efficiently as possible, and that they are fully satisfied with the service provided.

Kind regards,
James
x

With the greatest respect Peter, distribution and shipping in the UK is very different to that of the US - regardless of the instrument or its price.

Kind regards,
James
x

Shipping is really somewhat irrelevant here.

For one thing, the MP11 is a stage piano and so a part of it's design is to be moved on a regular basis and be able to withstand some reasonable level of physical "abuse" (though not actual and negligent abuse, of course). In fact, just how well a stage piano can stand up to the rigors of gigging is one of the defining characteristics that consumers use to make purchase decisions about these instruments. If a given stage piano were more prone to damage than others, then it would certainly get a very big negative mark on the pros and cons of a review or an individual's "which should I buy?" tally.

Therefore, it really should not matter what kind of shipping or packaging was used, provided that it is at least somewhat reasonable. Certainly, if a dealer took it out of the box and wrapped it in newspaper for shipping then that would be a problem, but if it's packed in it's comfy Styrofoam and corrugated cardboard, then it should be abel to stand the shipping, because that is better packaging than its ever going to have again as it travels all over creation.

However more importantly, I think in this case there does seem to be a quality assurance problem. I don't think that we can judge the customer service of an entire worldwide company off of one or two cases, but it does seem from the reports here as well as the corroboration of Jaun the CS agent that this particular transistor is installed in a questionable way. I could understand this kind of problem happening if a unit here or there were damaged in shipping so much so that they arrived with dented cases. However, barring this it's beyond unreasonable that a product design could allow a lesser impact of a unit to push an electronic component out of it's seating.

Hello Kawai James,

With due respect my post is correct, and you obviously seem to exercise your marketing duties here.

If the MP7 is a heavy and pricey keyboard, it would Kawai's job to provide some strong protective packaging with handles, so that it would not fall down easily. Not a thin cardboard box. I am talking from experience after packaging and returning to the post office 3x MP7's with a gross weight of 29kg in a difficult to grab and slippery cardboard box. (The MP11 has a net weight of 32kg).

Second, a stage piano is supposed to be build and designed sturdy. What we see is a device, which destroys itself when falling down a bit, because some electronics part hits the casing.

Third, what I can conclude from the picture seeing the electronics parts, does not induce any comfort. Technically, that is a cheap board and poorly finished, prone to fault in portable device.


The OP would not have raised the issue on this forum here, if the DOA MP11 would have been fixed quickly and complaisantly for him. In your place I would see to get better electronics boards inside the MP11 and alleviate the inconveniences of the affected customers.

Kind Regards,
Lo PHi

Point well taken. It is a unit whose destiny will be slid into the back of a van, dropped once or twice, always being brought somewhere at the last minute. The design must accommodate constant transport.

As these are getting broken on transit, I would ask, is the case itself getting bashed in and popping that component or, upon impact, are the internals giving way? I suspect the latter.

All shipping venues handle packages every day that are larger and heavier than this one. Every driver that comes to my door also has a two wheel cart. And now in 2015, no matter what form the packaging takes, this is no longer rocket science.

QA at the factory is doing their job. But the inherent design is at fault.

In the end, average packaging, a known design flaw, a company that is more than aware of the issue yet keeps shipping units that can be broken. Either in shipment or in use.

Think "Stage Piano" ...

"QA at the factory is doing their job. But the inherent design is at fault"

QA involves design too.

This is not a comment about Kawai, but instead a comment about the QA process in the development of any quality product (at least on the commercial/military side). QA happens all the way through the design, development, and manufacturing process. In the design phase, there is design for manufacturability. What this means is can we consistently make thousands of this product and not just a few engineering prototypes. Also, there is design for testability, insuring that the product can be adequately tested to insure quality. This involves providing good and thorough diagnostics, which also means that the hardware design allows access to various registers and components by diagnostic software, providing hardware test points, etc.

There is physical testing, what we often call "shake and bake". This involves physical "drop testing" (i.e. drop the item from some distance, typically three feet), time in an environmental chamber, vibrating the product on a table designed for that purpose, etc. In the environmental chamber, we see if the mechanical engineering for component, module, and unit cooling is sufficient, whether the individual components can hold up within the specified temperature ranges, whether the device handles power drops correctly, etc.

There is testing for software/firmware "corner cases" in which various combinations of button presses and conditions that might cause the software to malfunction are checked, along with whether the software performs according to spec for the product.

All during the manufacturing process, samples are selected and tested to insure that there are no DOA deliveries.

After the product ships to customers, feedback on the sorts of issues discussed frequently in this forum are constantly reported back to the continuation QA group, and appropriate changes made to the next product design and development process in a continual process improvement. If necessary, changes are made to the current product where necessary in its design and manufacture to address serious issues.

The process is quite thorough and involved - and therefore expensive. Also, there are career engineers whose sole purpose is to perform these activities. Again, highly skilled and - expensive. I have glossed over these processes, giving a "50,000 foot view" and not mentioned any of the details or myriad processes that make for the total QA processes within software, hardware, or manufacturing.

I have not worked on the consumer side of engineering, so I don't know if any (or all) of these sorts of things are attended to when making these products, and to what extent. I suspect that if they were attended to at the level of commercial and military products, the number of people owning DPs would be much smaller. Therefore, there must be some sort of balance between affordability and overall product quality.

Back to the direct subject...

Based on what James says, I believe he is filtering the discussion here into real, solid information that is fed back to the people within Kawai responsible for the processes I glossed over in this post. Also realize that a relatively small sampling of the total customer base is represented in this forum, and those who are having problems are coming here to discuss them. It is likely that the extent of the problems across Kawai's product line are greatly amplified here as a result.

Tony