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Joined: Apr 2015
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Luca CH Offline OP
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Hi there

I am about to buy a digital piano. I am an average player with little time to play and this will mainly be the piano where my daughter (6) will learn to play. I always had an acoustic piano at home but we have recently relocated and we have kept our acoustic Yamaha in the old flat, which is now only for vacation.

I've played the above 3 models, listened to several video on YT and I can't spot significant differences, the action is very realistic and that's what I care the most for, as my daughter will learn on this instrument.

I've a slight preference for the Kawai (and so my daughter 'cos it's available in white, while the Roland isn't), which is also the newest one I guess, but my doubt is:

HP-508 is the top model of Roland

CLP-575 is the almost the top model of Clavinova, as the 585 has no significant differences for home use (so I've read).

CA67 is clearly not the top model of Kawai as CA97 (which is slightly out of budget but I can reconsider it if necessary) is.

The prices are relatively close and well within my budget (possibly <3000):

Roland: 2680 CHF (2680 usd)
Yamaha: 2460 CHF (2540 usd)
Kawai: 2340 CHF (2420 usd)

Any advice?

Many thanks in advance and greetings from Switzerland

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If they are more or less the same for you, I'd go with the preference of your daughter. Should help with the motivation :-)


Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)
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Very very likely the daughter won't know enough to pick "the best" one. Me personally I'd probably prefer the kawai. A number of professional classical players on here have kawai MP11's for their digital. I don't think any of them are unhappy with that GF action.

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I really like the Kawai action (which is slightly different in the CA67 than in my MP11). However, I think you can't go wrong with any of the models you are looking at. So it's fine if it comes down to colors it comes in, things your daughter prefers, etc.

Or perhaps talk with the dealers of each and see who will give you the best price.


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To the OP - welcome!

It's a nice choice to make because they could all work out very well. There's not a bad piano in the bunch you are considering. I could try and influence you with my own view, but that wouldn't achieve very much. Oh go on then, seeing as you ask...I would probably (but not definitely) choose Roland or Kawai over the Yamaha. The Kawai has new sampling I believe and if I liked the sound of it that would probably be my choice because the Kawai action is so good. And what's more, if you believe you might keep it for a good while I might be tempted to stretch a bit for the CA-97.

I see you've played them all. Despite what you may perceive as only small differences I assume you must have a slight preference? If so go with that.

But there's no right or wrong choice here.

Good luck,

Steve

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Hello Luca, welcome to the forum.

The three digital pianos you are considering are all excellent instruments - as Morodiene says, you cannot go wrong with any of them.

I guess the decision essentially comes down to which piano yourself and your daughter enjoy playing the most. Don't worry too much about price - a few hundred Euros here or there is a relatively small amount over the lifetime of the instrument.

Best of luck with your decision.

Kind regards,
James
x


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Luca CH Offline OP
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Thank you so much for your comments and kind welcome smile

I've read what I was hoping to read; it's true that I've played them all but very shortly and I feel that my feelings about the Roland are unbalanced, because it's been the first DP I've played which can compare to an acoustic one.

Previously I've only had a good Casio (around 1000 EUR 10 years ago) which was ok to play live, but definitely not a "real" piano.

Now I'm impressed by how good these new DPs are, but still a bit reluctant to pay too much for something which will rapidly lose value, while my acoustic instruments (I have a few good guitars and basses as well) will maintain or gain over time.

Originally Posted by EssBrace
To the OP - welcome!

And what's more, if you believe you might keep it for a good while I might be tempted to stretch a bit for the CA-97.


That's a good point, Steve, and exactly where I hesitate. The CA67 might be good, but there is clearly something better, as it seems that the CA97 speakers system is a lot better. Unfortunately, I have no chance to compare them live and see if that could be much difference to me.

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I am biased as i've just ordered the 97 :-)

The thing that sold Kawai for me was just how the action felt (which is one of personal preference, obviously), but also when you see a model of a kawai action (there was one in the shop) versus a diagram of how other DPs do it, I felt it backed up what I was 'feeling'. The kawai one uses very long keys (about the same as a real grand) with levers and weights and notches and stuff pivoted off the back of the key, so you can see how its trying to create that realism. The only diagram I could find of yamaha, they are trying with much shorter keys, and the springs and levers are under the key itself. I tried the 545, 575 and 585 and none of them quite pushed my buttons. The Avantgrand N1 on the other hand was awesome... but that's an entirely different price category :-)

Good luck choosing!




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Originally Posted by Luca CH

Now I'm impressed by how good these new DPs are, but still a bit reluctant to pay too much for something which will rapidly lose value, while my acoustic instruments (I have a few good guitars and basses as well) will maintain or gain over time.


I'm not so sure the same is true for acoustic pianos. For sure, DPs depreciate pretty quickly, but not as fast as you think. In any case, pianos - acoustic or digital - are not great investments money-wise. So try not to think of it that way. The value is the pleasure it will give you, not in resale value later down the road.


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That's a good point, Steve, and exactly where I hesitate. The CA67 might be good, but there is clearly something better, as it seems that the CA97 speakers system is a lot better. Unfortunately, I have no chance to compare them live and see if that could be much difference to me.
If you can swing it, you should probably go for the better speakers. I haven't played both to compare either, but you are spending all this money, you should get the best you can and not compromise. It is my understanding there is a very noticeable difference between the 67 and 97 sound systems.

Also, I do think that Kawai has the best action out there for DPs. If you ever tire of the Kawai sound, you can always start using software pianos with your action, but if you tire of the action of a DP, you have to switch the whole thing.


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Originally Posted by Luca CH
Hi there
HP-508 is the top model of Roland

CLP-575 is the almost the top model of Clavinova, as the 585 has no significant differences for home use (so I've read).


Roland's top model is the LX15E but it's much more expensive.

According to reports on here there are significant improvements in the CLP-585 over the 575 in terms of action and speakers.

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the clp585 also has alot mpre ensemble like featres like more voices and rythms etc. and to be honest the butten setup on the clp isnt very friendly for it like the cvp models touch screen.

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Luca CH Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Morodiene


I'm not so sure the same is true for acoustic pianos. For sure, DPs depreciate pretty quickly, but not as fast as you think. In any case, pianos - acoustic or digital - are not great investments money-wise. So try not to think of it that way. The value is the pleasure it will give you, not in resale value later down the road.

Also, I do think that Kawai has the best action out there for DPs. If you ever tire of the Kawai sound, you can always start using software pianos with your action, but if you tire of the action of a DP, you have to switch the whole thing.


Thank you @Morodiene, very good inputs here.

I was already oriented towards the Kawai and after this thread I'm almost sure to go for it. But now I don't know if to choose the CA67 or CA97.

Sure this is my first good DP and I actually have no clue how good can I sell it in 1 or 2 years. If I'd be relatively sure of a reasonable loss (let say 35-40% in 2 yrs), I would pick the 67, and then, if my daughter likes to play, or a digital increases significantly my playing time (which is very little at the moment), I could upgrade to a 97.

But I'm afraid I could maybe lose 60% or more, and then I'd prefer to buy directly the better one, hoping that someone between me, my daughter or the younger daughter will enjoy it in the next years. I'll have a look around to see how used CA65/95 or similar DP from other brands are sold here.

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I had the same turmoil between the 67 and 97, as it was more than I wanted to spend. If you are mainly going to use headphones then there is no difference (except a couple of minor extra features), if you are mainly going to have the volume turned down low, it will be a subtle difference, but at normal volume and above, I found a huge difference between them. So I considered it an investment :-) It must be the soundboard that does it. It even has different modes for whether the piano is against a wall, or in a big room.

Money wise, DPs don't seem to lose most of their value looking at ebay. Wish I could say the same about my upright, which I fear I may not even be able to give away :-(


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Welcome to Piano World Luca.

After 6 months of researching, speaking to company reps, and playing various dps I ended up with the same short list (Kawai CA67, Yamaha CLP575, Roland HP-508) as you. This week I ordered the Kawai CA67. It has the best action which for me is most important.

As stated by other posters, these are all good pianos. IMHO I do not believe your daughter will out grow whichever one you choose any time soon. From what I have read on this forum, there are members who have their dp for 10 yrs or more.

I found it is Very Easy to be tempted by pianos out of my (initial) budget, as was the CA67 and Roland HP-508 for me. But, as both my husband and my teacher said; would I regret 5 years from now not having spent that extra amount. My answer was, yes.

You say there is an accoustic piano at your old flat, so I presume your daughter will be playing it periodically. Even though no dp -so far- is like an ap, and it is over budget, the CA97 is worth considering, if you liked the action and sound of the CA67. From what I read here and see on youtube, it is well like for its sound and action.

But in the end go by what YOU like best, of the pianos you listed there is no wrong or right one. Everyone hears sounds differently and their hands feel/react to the keyboard differently.

Good luck, it isn't an easy choice.


One final point, off topic. Out of all the company reps I spoke with, the Kawai US people were the most generous and helpful with information and the amount of time spent on the phone answering my questions. Most telling was their enthusiasm for the Kawai product and their willingness to stand behind it.







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Hey Luca I'm also choosing between CA67 and HP508 (or HP506 with the same PHA4 concert action but 4 speakers instead). Same as you, my major concern is the keyboard actions. Since you've tried all of them, are you able to please advise which has the best action? The KAWAI grand feel action is close to an acoustic action but would you say it's significantly better thant the Roland's? The other thing is, is the Roland keys really that noisy as mentioned by other posts in this forum?

Cheers

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LLIB, you have to test these for yourself.
For me, and in terms of action alone, it would be the Kawai, no doubt. But not knowing what, and how, you are playing, it is hard to make a guess what would work best for you.

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LLIB either piano will be fine. I think many of us prefer the feel of the Kawai, but it's mostly just a preference. Whichever one you pick you'll adjust to quickly.

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I did not like the CLP series. The touch is not as nice. The Kawai touch is heavy and feels softer than Roland. Roland feels hard from memory. My final choices were Kawai and Roland. I bought a used Kawai CA95 in the end because it was available.


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