Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Kawai actions seem very different between models - need help

Allochi, this is just what I wanted to hear! Some folks suggested that I consider Rolands and Yamahas, and I did initially. But my sense is that you get more bang for your buck with Kawais, at least as far as the action goes (though I personally like the sound of Yamahas more).

FranklinSq glad to be of help.

Please, do try the piano you want to buy before buying it. I don't claim that Yamaha or Roland is less than Kawai, I'm just saying that when I tried the Yamahas CLPs (inc. CLP-585) next to Kawai CAs in the store, I liked the Kawai more.

I did like Yamaha N1, and Yamaha Silent system, but N1 costs 7k chf, and seriously, I don't miss it, I'm so happy with the CA67.

The only thing I miss from acoustic piano is key vibration, I'm using headphones all the time, but when I don't, I can feel it a little, the speakers are powerful, and I think it's designed to do that, James?

Also keep in mind that a tool is as good as your use, I understand you are a beginner? like me, the way I thought about it is, I want the best action (GFII), CA67 was just released last year, Kawai make a new release every 3 years, so I'm covered, there is nothing my budget can buy better, and from time to time I will practice on acoustic piano somewhere - my teacher requires it.

I hope you will find the piano you like!

Oh, regarding the sound, do download CA67 user manual from Kawai website, you will find there is so many ways to adjust the piano sound to your liking, this is what I did, you can change so may parameters, even the type of room and headphones, the warmness of the sound, and reverb, you will be amazed.

Hello Allochi, thank you for your positive, honest comments about the CA67. Congrats on your new piano!



A number of CA customers have commented on 'feeling' the sound vibrating through the keyboard. While I'm not sure the engineers necessarily intended this when designing the instrument, it's certainly a nice characteristic, and one of the advantages of using real wooden keys.

As I recommended to another CAx7 customer, if you have not done so already, please be sure to update your piano's firmware to the latest version available from the link below:
http://www.kawai-global.com/support/updates/

Kind regards,
James
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Hey, thanks James! I didn't know about the update.

I do feel that the Roland and Kawai CA series is closer to an acoustic piano than Yamaha (which I did not enjoy playing.) It's a really hard decision. I was set on the Roland as the piano that best fits my budget. A new CA95 is out of my budget but a used Kawai CA95 came up for sale at a really good price and I went with it. Soundwise, I only play with the Mellow Grand. The others seem a tad bright.

One of the only things standing between me and a Kawai CA67 right now is the set of problems with the CA97 that were recently reported here

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2403427/New_Kawai_CA97:_first_impressi.html#Post2403427

where some owners describe pathological behaviors from their DPs. I am wondering if folks who own a CA67 have looked into these issues to see if they're just limited to CA97s or whether all CAx7s affected? I really hope Kawai James has an answer.

I don't have anything to add on the different Kawai models, however I just wanted to add that if you're really after an upright action, with a budget of $4000, you could look at the Yamaha NU1. This is a different model than the N1 (approx $7k), and right now in my area it's selling for about $4300. It features the real hammers of the Yamaha U1 upright piano but the sound is triggered by a sensor. When I tested it, it felt very similar to the acoustic upright U1 by Yamaha. Yamaha calls these pianos hybrids because of the real hammers used inside instead of true digitals.

Just something to try, I'm not trying to push you into buying a Yamaha, but you should test out the action to see how it compares with the other digitals that you're considering.

Hello FranklinSq,



I have not checked the CA67 myself, however I expect the bug is also present, as the instrument shares the same hardware and software as the CA97.

Fortunately, we are aware of this issue and hope to issue a software fix before the end of the month. As you may be aware, this bug only occurs when the 'Decay Time' parameter is increased above the default value of '5'. Therefore, we advise CA97/CA67 customers experiencing this bug to set the 'Decay Time' parameter value to '5' or lower until the software update is available.

Kind regards,
James
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The NU1 action is indeed based on an upright, however the I believe the felt hammers have been replaced with weights.

Kind regards,
James
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You might know more than me but I thought I recall being told the hammers are still there, but instead of being felted, they are neoprene. I'm not sure if that's what you mean by "being replaced by weights?"

Well, I'm not 100% certain that the parts attached to the hammer shank are weights (although I expect they contribute to the key's momentum when pressed), however they are not 'real hammers' - that was the point I wished to make.

Felted hammers are unnecessary in the NU1/N1/N2/N3 as there are no strings to strike.

Kind regards,
James
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Michiyo-Fir, thank you for bringing the NU1 to my attention. It is indeed a great DP. However, given that the the Kawai imitates a grand piano (and there seems to be wide consensus that it does an admirable job), it is a brand new model, the sound/speaker system is better, and it is still cheaper than the Yamaha, I think I will go ahead with the Kawai CA67. Thanks again for your help.

I spent a couple of hours in London recently going between Yamaha Music London (Just yamahas, obviously) and Rose Morris (Kawai and Roland). Would have been so much easier if you could get them all in the same shop rather than a 5 minute walk!! For me personally, the Yamaha CLPs felt awful compared with the Kawai actions, with the exception of the NU1 and N1/2/3. Just quite heavy, and springy. The GFII action on the CA67/97 was amazing, whether you were playing pp or ff. There was a CS10 there too, with the GFI action. It looked and sounded beautiful, but the let off point was much more noticeable, and I definitely preferred the GFII. When changing from CA67 to CS10, I noticed I failed to sound some notes when playing pp, because my finger had hit the let off point, and failed to depress the key properly. My friend who accompanied me (Who is grade 8) actually preferred the GFI action of the CS10, so it does depend on preference. Definitely try them in the flesh if you can. I could definitely tell the difference between the GFI and II anyway.

Even more noticeable to me, using headphones, the Yamahas gave a very narrow, almost mono sound, that felt disconnected - like someone else was actually playing. Through headphones, the Kawai's sounded fantastic (And they were my headphones, so same pair on both), and much more connected to the instrument itself. Even the NU1, I have to say sounded a bit disappointing through headphones, although great through speakers.

So, I did a final test between the 67 and 97 with the same music, and the volume turned up to about 2/3rds. It was still very good on the 67, but on the 97 you couldn't just hear the music, you could FEEL it. Totally blew me away. Soundboard-tastic.

Cut a long story short, I just ordered the CA97 :-) - got a pair of £70 audio technica's thrown in too.

First post, hope I haven't broken any rules. Been great to read other people's thoughts on this forum, so now adding my own :-)

Cheers,
tabber.

Kawai James where would the AWA PRO2 on The CE220 on that list?

Thank you for sharing your shopping experience, tabber, and congratulations on the purchase of your new piano!

Kind regards,
James
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Ah, that's a good question!

Hmmm...I would say:

- AHA IV-F action: ES100, CL26, KDP90,
- RHII action: ES7, MP7, CN24/CN34 (discontinued), CP3
- RHIII action: CN25/CN35
- AWA Grand Pro II action: CE220
- RM3 Grand II action: VPC1
- GF action: MP11, CA65/CA95, CP1/CP2
- GF II action CA67/CA97

...however, these things are highly subjective, and this is my personal opinion.

The 'RH' plastic key actions are excellent, and RHII/RHIII are arguably the most realistic plastic key actions currently available. In terms of features (triple sensor, Ivory Touch, let-off simulation, counterweights) the RHIII action is undoubtedly technically superior to the AWA Grand Pro II action. However, in terms of pure 'feels like a real piano' touch, I'd still rank the older, less technically-advanced AWA Grand Pro II action slightly higher, simply because of the long wooden keys.

Very, very tough call though!

For what it's worth, I have an old MP8II stage piano at home that utilises the same AWA Grand Pro II key action as the CE220. I use this as a controller for my Nord and it connects really well...I love it.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,
James
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Thank you James, that's very help full to know your opinion on such things, while i understand its just an opinion, you do have one of the advantages to see quite a bit larger range of digital pianos to compare than most of us do